Waldo

4 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

Young was put in the worst situation of any of the rookie QBs by a long shot. That said, he could have played better too. I honestly don't think any of the rookies would have had success in Carolina this season and wonder if any vets would have as well.

As for 2024, I fully expect more of what we've had since Tepper took over. And that's bad, losing football. Tepper will most likely stick with the coach and GM through at least part of 2025 though since he'll want to try to rehab his image some.

I can agree with no having great success here but they shouldn't have looked like busts throughout.

I don't know. It feels, just my opinion, that Tepper will miss on his savior and have to settle again. Look how that turned out at QB after he had to settle after missing on Stafford and then Watson. Tepper wants to be the smartest guy in the room but also the loudest guy with all of the attention. He loved having that #1 pick so he could talk about it and force people to listen to him. He is a total drama queen so the new hires could both be 1 and done again though I am guessing a GM he hires will be more of 'his guy' while the HC is looked at as more at fault (since Tepper still looks to understand so little about the game and leauge in general). I would be shocked if Johnson or even his plan B comes here so 1 and done is on the table still for 2025 at HC in my mind until it's not.

4 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

People looked beyond the size and in some cases saw what they wanted. But if you watched their college games, you saw Young escape pressure, dance around in the backfield, and make a good pass a lot. Now, there were games that didn't happen too. You also saw Stroud stand in the pocket throw to his first read a lot since he rarely ran in college and had a good Oline. I don't blame him since his first read was open 90% or more of the time because they were elite receivers. Every QB throws to the first read if they're open, so nobody should blame him for that and I certainly don't. In the few games where the defense was able to pressure Stroud, he made bad decisions, bad throws, and took sacks. It's why people questioned if it was the OSU system that made Stroud look so good most of the time or him being a great QB.

Honestly, all you can do is go by their tape. Making throws in shorts at their pro days in controlled environments is easy. So are the combine events since guys have been specifically training for them for years. It takes more than a RAS score to be a good player. But on the flip side you have guys that are great college players that just can't play in the pros for whatever reason. I guess it just comes down to making your best guess and praying you're right if you're a scout and GM. Otherwise, you're out of a job.

I saw a lot of WRs making plays and his escapability looked college level. It wasn't Wilson or Murray level. The level of talent and coaching disparity between the NFL and school make taking a chance on Strouds talent being coschable vs Young looking peaked at that level should have been the nail but it wasn't.

I think people just take their excitement from that level to be actual ability. The overall talent level at that level tells you all you need to know when you compare the talent of a Stroud or Cam to a Young. Even Wilson went in the 3rd for good reasons and he was more talented than Young. I agree at the end of the day you have to take a swing but if multiple picks, now 2 #1 overall, you have to be right which is why I was always agaisnt a trade of that magnitude. 

10 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

It has a few anonymous execs being interviewed about CJ vs. Bryce.

A few are still towing the "it's everything around him line" and we gotta do more to make him better. 

Some are saying it's a combination of factors including Bryce, he wasn't posied but we didn't put him in a good situation.  

...and a few others are on the we-made-a-mistake camp.  See below:

So it seems the lively debate here persists in the execs world.  

2024 is going to tell us a lot about Bryce and the future of this team.  This GM and Coaching hire becomes all the more critical.  

The article rounds out by mentioning the S2 leak fiasco and how certain execs didn't buy it because CJ obviously has a strong football IQ.  Also says in a nutshell how you can't close the book just yet but we've created a bad situation.  And that CJ has just been awesome.

With all the people that were high on him, most will keep towing the everything around him until after this draft cycle and then they can switch their narratives without admiting they were ever wrong. Kudos to the ones that call it like it looks.

I wish 2024 held some mystery of improvement but after 6 seasons we should all expect what is coming next.

Edit: 5 seasons? On the 6th now I guess.

2 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

They should have stayed at 9 and just taken BPA to keep building the roster, but as I stated leading up to the draft, they had to give people some hope after so many losing seasons and take a QB. As for Young vs Stroud, Young was the better college QB. Young played better when pressured. Stroud just didn't play well when defenses got to him until the Georgia game. In that game, Stroud flipped a switch. Back then, I wondered if the Georgia game was a one off since the entire season had been the complete opposite for Stroud. That's why I preferred Young.

But Stroud has kept up his play. Kudos to him. Now the question is if he can keep that level of play up in the future. The question for Young is if he simply improve and make more plays like he did in college.

I don't get it. Young looked like a school level QB at best to me and Stroud looked NFL ready. I still don't understand how people can't see that.

8 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

I will say, I pounded the Tyrique drum and he had a lot of detractors in the draft build-up.  That kid balled out for Chicago this year and he played way more snaps than expected.  

Elsewhere...related to the thread, The Athletic had a lovely new CJ v. Bryce article:

https://theathletic.com/5206755/2024/01/18/c-j-stroud-bryce-young-texans-panthers-nfl-playoffs/

 

Can you break down the article some? Just curious to what the naritive is now out there.

15 hours ago, jayboogieman said:

• Stroud has the "it" factor and should have been the #1 pick.
• People should be able to say that without being all doom and gloom.
• The Texans know they have their QB while the Panthers still hope they have their guy.
• Stroud is already one of the best QBs in the league.
• It's too early to say Young is a bust.
• Young can become one in time, but would still be behind Stroud.
• It's ok to say the Panthers missed.
• Says taking Young over Stroud wasn't the big mistake based off what was known at the time. The big mistake was trading up to #1 in the first place.

Young got so many lazy and poor evaluations. It was all look how special he plays in school vs he has a lot he needs to clean up that was actually true.

He is 100% right about the trade. I knew they had fugged up when they announced it. Bad teams don't get fixed with just 1 player.

10 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

That's where I wonder about all these guys saying Shanahan. That dude has had an embarrassment of talent with the 49ers.

They keep bringing in more. They have made mistakes but the good to bad ratio is amazingly great. 

The situation around the HC will always matter. Having that mix of ownership that has learned the hard way and a good GM is how you give a HC a chance to be great. Like you said Tomlin is a good coach but how good could he look here with ragtag talent and an owner who is of Tepper's quality...Well what HC could overcome that every year? None that I see. 

11 hours ago, ncfan said:

I would like to think injuries at OG effected him.

 

But I keep going back to the start of the season where he struggled mightily in the joint practices and preseasons Before Brady got hurt.

And yet he look fine at the end of the year before. Scheme and coaching matter while it sounds like the wheels were coming off the Panther's short bus in training camp anyways. No idea if he is a fit moving forward but he can be given another shot with competition or traded/cut as needed. There are so few players not in that category going forward.

Upgrade anywhere they can, especially on the lines. I don't care who is sitting at that spot if they can be beat out by someone else.

No idea how the OG play affected his play and not sure it matters in whatever scheme they will be running.

1 hour ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Two guys that have really been on the cutting edge of offense for a while. Hard to go wrong there. 

I really like Ryans too. Just the way his players talk about him is something else. 

There are a lot of guys we would be lucky to have but those 2 run the kind of teams I wish the Panthers could do.

Shanahan and Reid. 

Winning. Real grass. A decent stadium experience. Ownership that isn't among the worst in the league...all the little things.

2 minutes ago, The Lobo said:

Wait I missed this, what happened? 

Leaking that some coaches wanted out, nothing official yet. 2 blocked interviews (both lateral) combined with not having a clue about which way the hiring and team goes still. All not great looks from an organization with a poor reputation out there trying to interview people for whatever their master plan really is (sure looks like they are trying to push off the current staff onto another HC). It's the front office equivalent of keeping Cam too long and only releasing him after a Darnold trade. 

Anyone trying to spin it as good business is a fool. Those idiots asked candidates to interview but not their own people lol. Maximum fail

Baker is Baker, nothing new. Baker had 339 yards and 1/1 td/ints against us this year in 2 games and had a better game against GB this year with an extra TD and 3 total games of 300+ yards in the season. He also had 3 games with under 150 total yards. He has always been streaky. 

Great coaching and an extremely talented QB sure do make a huge difference. 

Tepper can't find a decent talent evaluator to save him from himself and his coaching choices are not much better. I didn't even like the Texan's GM but maybe he has removed his head from his butt now? IDK on that one but holy crap the coaching side is legit. 

4 minutes ago, Harbingers said:

Cause the stadium is old as fug if I remember correctly. 

Sure but those things are getting work done on them every couple of years anyways. BOA has had a few face lifts itself. I still guess it's just cheaper and easier to pay fans to do it. If the Bills aren't using it for more than football games in the winter then it probably is just a waste of money for them. Unless they can't get it cleared enough to put butts in seats at game time which is not a bet I would make. GB clears their stadium regularly like that and hasn't missed any games that I am aware of with tons of snow over the years. 

2 hours ago, Harbingers said:

How do they not have like heating band or something around the back of the seats so they can melt it off instead of asking a bunch of fans to shovel it. Like not even that major or expensive just something that puts off enough heat over the course of time that the snow can’t accumulate like that. 

I wondered why they didn't have it running through the concrete around the place but I guess they can just give a couple of tickets to guys willing to do it as a fan is my guess. 

HAHAHA wow some great takes in here. Love to see the bump, it's well earned. This was one of the most painful and obnoxious offseason ever. All star staff, Bryce is special in a good way and playoffs in 23 just lolz that none of that was close to being true. 

I predict Tepper fugs up this hiring cycle yet again and the team wins less than 5 games next year. Fans walk from PSLs after next year after the chunk that are walking early this year further embarrassing Tepper. Tepper has more outburst in his constant failures and embarrassments so that will be fun. Eventually Tepper finds another toy he has success with and spends less time as a hands-on NFL owner giving the team the ability to succeed without him in the room or building in a decade or so. 

5 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Tepper is going to sell the lack of interest as the process being 'methodical.'  Probablay some BS about 'taking his time and leaving no stone unturned' when in reality he's just getting little interest.  Candidates are simply parlaying Tepper's interviews as leverage for the jobs/money they really want.

A HC and GM, both good candidates, have already been hired. He will end up with a bottom of the barrel guy while he is used for leverage and interviewing experience. The spin on this hiring cycle is going to be even funnier than the all-star squad from last offseason.

9 minutes ago, hepcat said:

They royally f*cked up trading up to pick Bryce. It was a huge gamble and they lost in every way possible. They aren’t going to be able to sell Bryce as a positive. His tape is garbage. 

They should be open to finding his replacement ASAP with any candidate and that might help attract a better candidate. 

It's going to look like Wilks' year in Arizona but worse. Rosen wasn't sitting on the team yet and Tepper is going to have to throw the bank at even a crappy hire. The worst part is if Tepper keeps the crappy hire in 2025 and pisses away the chance at another good to great QB then...

It's going to be such dud hires again. There are zero signs Tepper is going hands off enough to succeed. He already broke the S2 and next up is Sportsorgy or whatever.

Not forcing your staff and players as more than maybies would be a huge step forward but that doesn't look on the table. It all feels backwards and not even a new approach for a failing team. There are so few positives it's really amazing the implosion Tepper has achieved.

21 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Its extremely difficult for them to upgrade. Tua is an average to slightly above average NFL QB.  To upgrade him means getting a elite QB and those are exceedingly rare.  If they get rid of Tua and try to draft someone, there is a high probability they will get someone worse.  

They identify talent well. That may be true on our team but Raid did it in KC. Losing Tua would be like them losing Smith at the time. Always a chance they could get worse but finding another QB who is good enough to slip into the playoffs is a Baker away on a well run team.

Depends on the coach. All of them have positives and negatives. McDaniels' negative is his immaturity. I don't know how that plays out long term because it can improve even with his base personality.

I'll take a caoch that can adapt and change over time because when they stop trying it's a sign that their time is up. McDaniels might need a Reid type move next to help him take that step so Miami might not be getting the best of him.