Jay Roosevelt

This is more like "WHAT WE ALL ASSUMED NEWS."

Shy Tuttle is a surprise.

Team President? I don't know what all goes into that position but Cam couldn't possibly do a worse job than Tepper has.

The fact that Reich and McCown weren't all over him to improve his footwork is insane to me. How can two supposed "QB gurus" not bother with something so obvious?

The more I learn about him the more I'm starting to think he's the guy. This might just be a Mike McDaniel situation.

No.

Imagine that; 4 of the top 5 players are OL and WRs and Bryce has his highest grade of the year.

I swear if the Steelers fire Mike Tomlin Tepper better be at his front door with a giant blank check before the ink dries on his termination papers.

10 hours ago, Stuart Smith said:

If Evero does not have head coaching opportunities elsewhere it is because people are not paying attention. I wish it was here. 

I agree, but at the same time I don't get the sense that there are many owners out there who would be too eager to try and sell a coordinator from a 2-3 win team as his team's next head coach.

It's not fair, but it will surely be a factor.

1) He should be a serious candidate for head coach.

2) If he doesn't get the HC job, I have to believe that any offensive-minded coach we hire with any sense (not guaranteed to be the case, I realize) would jump at the chance to retain him as DC. I mean, what else can a guy prove? Two years in a row (last year in Denver, now here) he's coached great defenses despite being dragged down by inept offense and injuries.

10 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I mean the weigh in thing was pretty obvious.

If you ignored that, it was probably because you chose to or just didn't feel like it mattered.

This. If you think every NFL team didn't know his size was being overestimated you're crazy. NFL scouts and execs knew exactly how big/tall Bryce was and wasn't.

And honestly, I don't think his size has been a huge issue so far. He's certainly shown he can take a pounding and keep getting up and does anyone really think if he were another 2 inches taller and 15 pounds heavier that he'd be playing significantly better?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Bill Belichick is John Fox/Jeff Fisher who got lucky enough to stumble onto the GOAT QB and ride him to a Hall of Fame career. If he didn't have Brady he'd have been fired 15-20 years ago and be out of the league by now.

13 minutes ago, TheBigKat said:

If the NFLPA has a spine, they’ll force grass in the next CBA

This.

1 hour ago, electro's horse said:

1. He skipped throwing at the combine at least in part because he had forcefed himself to the point one scout said he looked like "a pregnant woman" and didnt' feel comfortable taking off his baggy pants and hoodie. 

2. It's literally not. There are plenty of exmples of QBs that sank due to combine performances. Brady Quinn is the big one that comes to mind. Peoiple thought he had a cannon, then the draft process started and he went and threw and scouts realized he was a blimp launcher. Matt Leinart was another. People can't really tell with all the various things going on in a game just how big the arm is, or how bad their footwork is, or if they can take adjustments. You also want to see them in person. 

Deshaun Watson is someone that worked on his delivery a lot between the end of his college career and the combine. He fixed his footwork and launch angles and improved things and no one would have trusted him if he didn't show it off at the combine. He was great in college (when he wasn't sexually assaulting masseuses) but he threw a duck. 

Workouts at team facilities aren't as good. Player knows everything, familiar with teh field, has his own guys to throw to, schools fudge up all the numbers (florida is notorious for having multiple people break the record for 40 yard dash every season) etc.

Combine has a ton of problems with it and I'm not saying it's perfect but judging arm strength requires a lot more than watching film and stuff. You gotta get your hands on them.

If bryce had thrown every scout would have seen a skinny fat kid doing uncle rico impersonations and holding back GOMAD shits. 

Ken Dorsey was another really funny one. He did a skill competition after 1998 with like Favre, Bledsoe, and Steve Beurlein (1998 season never forget). Basically just them standing at the fifty midfield and hitting targets in the endzone. The three nfl players were just nailing trash cans from fifty out with no effort at all. Dorsey crow hopped into a pass that landed at the 15 yard line outside of the hashes. it was like "oh my that's not an nfl arm." 

I might agree if Bryce didn't have a Pro Day where he threw. You really think NFL teams didn't gauge his arm strength before giving him a 1st round grade? Or are you one of the people who have convinced themselves that we were somehow the only team in the league that had higher than a 2nd/3rd round grade on him?

If we're being honest Bryce's arm strength doesn't even crack the top-3 in terms of issues he's had this year. I'd put his footwork, accuracy and ball security all above arm strength as problems that need to be addressed.

In any event it's not like Bryce set out to dupe the NFL into making him a top draft pick. He may end up being a massive bust, but it won't be because he somehow pulled the wool over everyone's eyes for a cash grab.

5 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Well we can't do much about that now. That was a Matt Rhule thing.

The point being that we refused to recognize the strengths/weaknesses of our players. 

Oh, that cannot be denied. The way this roster was constructed on offense mirrors the way the coaching staff was put together. A hodge-podge of mis-matching parts forced into roles they're not suited for.

13 hours ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

 

13 hours ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Of course most of the answers are about money.

 

I'm starting to think most of the sub are just broke in real life. These players play a dangerous game they deserve to be well paid. Money is not why I don't feel bad for Bryce.

 

I don't feel bad for Bryce, because he had us fooled during the combine. All we had was his game tape. If he throws at the combine and we see his lack of arm talent there is no way we draft him. He fooled us by skipping out on the combine hiding his lack of arm strength. For that I can never feel sorry for the kid.

I hate to tell you this but Bryce Young is far from the first QB to not throw at the Combine. This notion that he somehow "fooled" the Panthers into drafting him #1 overall is just ignorant over-emotional nonsense.

And the idea that by skipping the Combine he was somehow "hiding his lack of arm strength" makes no sense. If you watch 2 years of game tape on a QB and still need to see him throw at the Combine to see his arm strength then you're not doing it right. It's literally the easiest thing to determine about a QB by watching tape.

Do I feel bad for Bryce Young? Of course not. Because, again, nobody has asked for any sympathy for him. I'm frustrated for him (and by him at this point) but at no point has he asked for anyone on this board to feel sorry for him and yet you have threads like this where people rant about how they don't feel sorry for him when he's never asked them to.

Be angry at Tepper, Fitterer, and even Bryce for his performance on the field but stop trying to paint the guy as this villain who conned his way into the NFL and now expects sympathy because he's struggling.

Who is asking anyone here to feel bad for Bryce Young? I don't recall Bryce or anyone in the organization asking for sympathy cards.

42 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Oh you mean the thing some of us have been saying all season? That our OL is built to run the ball, not pass it 40+ times a game?

Then it's not built correctly. Run-first is fine, but your OL must be able to pass block in today's NFL.

Another day in the Panthers TE wasteland.

1 hour ago, Waldo said:

The time to hand Young the starting spot just because of what they spent on him has past. He should earn it because if he can't beat out other QBs then he shouldn't be starting going forward regardless of what he cost them. It would actually be a mercy to him at this point and might help him salvage his career. The only thing positive to come out of more of this current approach with Young is the #1 pick in 2025 being a lock.

Yes, he should earn it, but at the same time sitting him only delays the inevitable. I would actually be fine with sitting him the rest of this year because it's clear nothing good is going to come of him continuing to play at this point other than possibly getting injured behind our awful OL. But if you sit him you better damn well do it with a plan in place.

And honestly, I'd rather start Bryce next year even if it means getting the #1 pick in 2025 because at least then we'll know and be in position to draft another QB. If we sit him because Dalton looks better in training camp what does that accomplish other than a few extra meaningless wins that will take us out of the top-5 the following offseason?

I know everyone is sick of this losing but I want us to win the long game, not just a few games here and there. And unless we have a franchise QB magically fall to us in the 2nd or 3rd round we have to at least do our best to try and make it work with Bryce. If it doesn't, at least we'll know it's time to move on after 2024 and we'll be in position to do so with a higher pick.

1 hour ago, Captroop said:

I don't see how you can evaluate a trade except by taking the outcome into account. Evaluating the hypothetical value is pointless.

That's like rationalizing spending $100k on lottery tickets because you COULD have won the Powerball that's worth billions. That logic didn't work on my wife, and it doesn't work here.

The time to debate the value of the trade up to #1 should taken place before the pick was made. Now it's made, so the trade should be evaluated based on what Bryce cost us, what Bryce has produced, and the icing on this shitcake is witnessing the opportunity cost in the form of Stroud.

I don't disagree. But as someone has said if we had made the same trade and drafted Stroud nobody would consider it a bad deal. There are some who argued before we even made the pick that it wasn't worth it regardless of whether we picked a franchise QB or a bust, which is nonsense.

8 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Anyone talking about building up Young by building a roster around him is delisional and can't face the fact they drafted Bust Young at an incredible cost.

I mean, you may well be right but what choice do we have at this point? Unless we get EXTREMELY lucky and have some stud QB fall to us in the 2nd or 3rd round we can't really do anything but build around Bryce and hope he comes around until at least 2025.

The investment we made in him means we basically HAVE to give it a go with him before moving on. Not that, again, we have much choice. What are we supposed to do, start Dalton and never give Bryce another shot? Release him? Trade him for nothing?

All we CAN do is build the best roster and staff around him we can manage and hope for the best. At least if we get the team around him decent then we'll be in better shape once his replacement is drafted.