SCO96

Sam's last pick is why we need to try and find a QB in this draft. I wouldn't be concerned if he was the type of QB who plays well from behind. He doesn't. Darnold is definitely a front runner.

At this point in his career Darnold needs everything to go right to play his best. We need a DAWG who can put the team on his back and carry us when the chips are down. So far Sam hasn't proved that he can do that. I hope he proves me wrong... TODAY.

Sam's play has definitely improved. I'd still draft a QB if available, but I'd definitely go into 2023 feeling comfortable enough to let Sam hold the reins until a young QB was ready to take over.

Ideally, Sam would have a Jim Plunkett or Gino Smith type resurgence and we use the draft to fill in our other holes.

10 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

If you run it down their throats you limit their possessions. 

Which also limits their rhythm 

Which also limits your d from more opportunities to make a mistake. 

 

Running the ball works

Except when it doesn’t. I love to watch a team with a good running game. But, there are always days when the running game doesn’t click. On those days, the QB and receivers have to step up and make some big plays. We don’t have the passing attack that a team needs to make a deep playoff run. 

If we could get the QB solidified, add a receiving threat at TE, and get consistent play from DJ and TMJ, we would be the odds on favorite to win the NFC South for the next several years.
 

9 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

I remember watching him just tearing through the line and rumbling down the field. Never shied from contact and made use of every pad that a football player could stuff under their uniform.

Franco could juke you, run by you, and as you pointed out...he'd run over you of he had too.

I couldn't help but smile when I read your comment about the pads. Two days ago a thought popped into my head to go to YouTube and watch Franco Harris highlights. I watched them at work on Monday. Two things stood out in the video, his overall ability as a runner...and those huge thigh pads that came up over the top of his pants.  

Two days after I watched the highlight reel I find out that he's dead. Sad news.

22 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

I'm with you, @rayzor. 

The Steel Curtain was one of the best DLs in football history.  In fact, the only one I can think of that was in that same discussion was the Rams Fearsome Foursome.  For those of us that grew up watching them, we will always remember the names.

I remember LC Greenwood wearing yellow cleats in the early 70s, which was a big deal in those days.

Then, of course, there was Otis Sistrunk with the Raiders, the most famous alumnus from "the University of Mars."

RIP Franco.  He was not the fastest nor the flashiest, but he had a knack for the ball and could cut on a dime.

Joe Greene once said "No one played better in the big game than Franco".

In the 70's Schultz, didn't seem like he always came through in the most crucial moments of the most crucial  games?

My former pastor, an avid Steeler fan, sent me a text about Franco’s death this morning while I was eating breakfast. This was sad to hear, especially if you grew up watching football in the 1970s. I was a DALLAS fan back then, but THERE WAS NO BACK MORE FEARED by Cowboy fans back then Franco Harris.

All the great QBs seemed to wear #12 (Namath, Staubach, Griese, Bradshaw, and Stabler)

The great trinity of RBs wore #32 (Brown, Simpson, and Harris)

Harris is possibly the most underrated great back in NFL History despite winning 4 SBs and retiring #2 on the all time rushing list. Franco 6’2/230 lbs but had the agility of a HB and played his best in big games.

This is a great highlight reel  Franco was awesome.

19 minutes ago, Raleigh PF said:

If I were game-planning against the Panthers at this point, I would throw 8 or 9 in the box and dare Sam Darnold to make a critical pass. Teams have not taken the Panthers seriously, but with the Panthers establishing an actual game plan the last few weeks, they are going to have to now.

The games are winnable on paper, but I'm having a hard time believing a team that has won 5 games all year is suddenly going to go 6-0 or 5-1 to close out the schedule. 

I wholeheartedly agree. I’m surprised Seattle didn’t make that adjustment in the 2nd half. Sam doesn’t have to be spectacular for us to win out. But, he’s going to have to  make 3-4 big plays per game and get close to 200 yds passing for us to run the table.

1 hour ago, frankw said:

Sign him to the NFL's first billion dollar contract!

8 minutes ago, Bama Panther said:

If only Patrick Mahomes was a #1 overall pick, your argument would hold water, but he wasn’t. He was the #10 pick. 

And the 2nd best QB in that draft, 3 time Pro Bowler Deshaun Watson, didn’t go until pick #12.

The first QB taken in that draft, Mitch Trubinsky, was the least successful of the three. His fifth year option wasn’t picked up, he’s played for 3 teams, and is already considered a backup only 6 years into his career. 

10 minutes ago, Day1PanthersFan said:

Most fans would rather have a few meaningless wins than try to build to get back to the superbowl 

If there was another Mahomes in the draft, our fans would still want to win 

I guess we really are not football smart 

So, I’d like to hear what you would do if you were in Steve Wilks or Mr. Teppers shoes right now. Would you really tell these guys to go out there and lose each week in order to get a Top 2 selection in this years underwhelming QB class?

I think Sam the potential to be backup-low end starter in the NFL. He can’t carry a team on his shoulders. But in the right situation, if he doesn’t mess up, a solid team can carry him. That said, if Sam had this O-line last year he would have looked a whole lot better. We would have won two or three more games in 2021 with these guys blocking up front

I don’t recall him being sacked today. Last year Sam (and PJ and Cam) seemed to be running for their lives on almost every other snap. 

A great QB can elevate an average to good supporting cast. A great all around team can elevate an average to good QB.

Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jim Mc McMahon, Joe Flacco, and Nick Foles will never sniff the Hall of Fame. However, they do have one thing in common. All won 5 won SB rings when they started the big game. Why was that possible? They only had to stay w/in the game plan and not mess things up by turning the ball over.

We don’t need a Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, or Burrow in this years draft to compete for a title going forward “IF” the rest of the team is solid. What we need is a guy that can drop back 25-30 times per game, complete 60% of his passes, throw 25-28 TD (averages out to less than 2 per game) and not turn the ball over on a regular basis. If we had that right now we’d be in first place in the NFC South.

You don’t have to have a top 5 pick to find a guy like that in the draft. But, a guy selected lower in the draft may take a little longer to develop and require more rigorous coaching.

On 11/16/2022 at 2:23 PM, Growl said:

those three teams share the same number of championships

 

 

But one of those teams (our beloved Panthers) has made it it to 3 conference title games and made two Super Bowl appearances. You can't say that about the Texans and the Lions. And our team had a legit chance to win both of those Super Bowls.

I hate pointing this out, but the journeyman QB who led us to our first appearance matched Tom Brady throw for throw and would/could have been MVP if we had won.  He played better in game than our  #1 pick and 2015 league MVP in his loss to Denver. A game in which Peyton Manning couldn't lead his team to 200 total yards on offense.

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Christian has proved today that he’s the best all purpose back in the game when healthy. The Niners are beating the pants off of the Rams. Hopefully Shanahan will bench him for the rest of the game. I was surprised to see him after his rushing TD.
 

Bad things seem to happen to injury prone players when you keep the field in games that have already been decided.

This is why PJ has struggled to stay in the NFL. The accuracy just isn't there. This is a very winnable game. If he keeps throwing the football like this we're going to struggle to put points on the board all day long and he'll probably start balls to the guys in black.

Too bad, because he really does have a love arm.

5 hours ago, Monrowed said:

Which QB is worth a #1 pick? Maybe one or two of them could go in the first 15 picks, but I am not sure that there is some sort of next Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, or even Trevor Lawrence waiting for some team to take at the first spot. If they are the worst team, then they will get the first pick. Otherwise, they will get the pick that is appropriate for the talent level that exists on this team. 

This is how I feel. I don't see a QB in this draft worth "tanking" for. INone of them jump off the screen as elite prospects. I think there are 3 or 4 who could go in the first round and be successful if the environment is right: 

1) Solid HC and OC

2) Solid O-line

3) Playmakers at skill positions

4) Offense puts the QB in position to maximize his talents and minimize his weaknesses.

In terms of the  Panthers

1) We have no idea what to expect in 2023. We could be better or worse depending on the Tepper's decision about the HC. The team looked good yesterday.

2) Our line is solid and is getting better. We won't get a young QB killed next season unless he just holds onto the ball too long.

3) I could see Hubbard and Freeman getting the job done for the next couple of years if the run blocking holds up. We have DJ. TMJ showed flashes yesterday. Even Tommy Tremble had a TD. Still, it would be nice to have a solid #2 and pass catching threat at TE. We may have answers on the roster...maybe not.

4) All depends on who the HC hires (or retains) as OC.

If we can accomplish all 4 by the start of 2023, it doesn't matter which of the top 4 or 5 we take. I think they'd be coming into a situation that would help them quickly transition into the NFL.

29 minutes ago, Wes21 said:

Going back to 1970 there have only been 3 QBs taken #1 that have won a Super Bowl for the team that drafted them.  Which means every other Super Bowl was won by a QB who wasn't the #1 overall pick, or he was the #1 overall pick but won it with a different team than the one that drafted him (like Baker Mayfield).

Of those guys I would say that Terry Bradshaw is the gold standard.  He only played for the Steelers and there isn't much about his situation that is unusual.  The next guy is Troy Aikman.  What's interesting about Troy is that the Cowboys had so much draft capital from the Herschel Walker trade that they used TWO 1st round picks on QB that year (the other was Steve Walsh).  Peyton Manning is the other guy, and he is what everybody wants.  A guy that comes in and single handedly changes everything about the franchise.  However, it must be said that Peyton also won a Super Bowl with a team that didn't have to tank and get the #1 overall pick to acquire him. 

Actually, you’re incorrect with that first statement.

John Elway was drafted #1 overall in 1983. He won 2 SB’s with Denver (although he wasn’t able to do so until the last 2 years of his career 1997-1998)

Eli Manning went #1 in his draft class. He was drafted by the Chargers, but he never played a down with them because he was moved to the Giants in a trade on draft day that involved Philip Rivers. So, technically he didn’t win a SB with the team that drafted him, but NY Giants were the only team he ever played for in the NFL and he won 2 Super Bowl for the franchise.

17 minutes ago, Wes21 said:

Going back to 1970 there have only been 3 QBs taken #1 that have won a Super Bowl for the team that drafted them.  Which means every other Super Bowl was won by a QB who wasn't the #1 overall pick, or he was the #1 overall pick but won it with a different team than the one that drafted him (like Baker Mayfield).

Of those guys I would say that Terry Bradshaw is the gold standard.  He only played for the Steelers and there isn't much about his situation that is unusual.  The next guy is Troy Aikman.  What's interesting about Troy is that the Cowboys had so much draft capital from the Herschel Walker trade that they used TWO 1st round picks on QB that year (the other was Steve Walsh).  Peyton Manning is the other guy, and he is what everybody wants.  A guy that comes in and single handedly changes everything about the franchise.  However, it must be said that Peyton also won a Super Bowl with a team that didn't have to tank and get the #1 overall pick to acquire him. 

I brought this up last week.

Matt Stafford was drafted #1 overall by the Lions. He failed to win a playoff game in Detroit. He had to go to a stacked Rams team in order to win a Super Bowl. Stafford's biggest division rival prior to the trade was Aaron Rodgers, who was the 24th pick in his draft class. That same year Alex Smith went #1 overall. We all know who turned to be the better QB.

3 hours ago, WeDoNotTank said:

Not true, they could have taken Von Miller AJ Green plenty of others that QB class was super weak after Cam.....

 

This team has never truly escaped mediocrity no back to back winning seasons and no super bowl championships.

Cam was fun to watch. I loved seeing him win MVP and still wonder what could have been had he stayed healthy. That said, we had 3 winning seasons with Cam and a fourth playoff season with a 7-8-1 record.

Picking #1 or #2 doesn't mean you're getting the best QB in that years draft class, or even a good QB. Two QBs went ahead of Josh Allen in his draft class...and we have them both on our roster (Baker and Sam). Five QBs went ahead of Lamar Jackson the same years. Allen is the only one who has distinguished himself and I'm not even sure if one of them, Josh Rosen, is even still in the league.

A young/rookie QB needs a good coaching a sound O-line, good skill players, and a scheme tailored to what he does best. If a rookie gets all the above, then his chances of success will be pretty good, no matter where he ends up or what spot  he's selected in the draft. 

6 hours ago, Varking said:

It’s the easiest position to replace in the NFL. 

The great Jim Brown retired after the 1965 season after winning MVP and leading the league in rushing for the 8th time in 9 seasons. He was replaced by Leroy Kelly who put up 3 All-Pro caliber seasons from 1966-1968 before injuries began to affect him. The Browns were a title threat every year for the rest of decade with Kelly as the feature back although they never made it to the Super Bowl.

You just can't replace a great RB with a  scrubb. But, a good running back behind  good/great offensive run blocking will usually keep the offense running smoothly (no pun intended)

4 minutes ago, The Huddler said:

he did that in 28 carries

 

holy poo give him the ball

OOps!

328 carries!

3 minutes ago, Seltzer said:

I'm cool with starting him the rest of the way.  No lie.  He might have a place on this team next year. 

Baker, Sam, and PJ do not.

Upside is we develop another QB along with Corral and whoever we draft.  There is no downside b/c if he sucks, we get a better pick and dump him, too.

 

I said this last week. We know Baker and PJ won't be back in 2023. I wouldn't mind seeing what Sam could do with the improved O-line this season, but now with Robbie and Christian gone he probably needs to move on as well. As you pointed out, Eison could possibly develop into a viable back up/spot starter until a rookie develops. Eleven games is enough time gain experience and prove himself to coaching staff and personnel guys around the league.

5 minutes ago, outlaw4 said:

The only people that would want to watch Chuba are those that have the opposing team's defense on their fantasy team.

If Chuba could produce a couple of seasons on the ground in the NFL like he did at Oklahoma State in 2019, he probably would fill some seats at Bank of America Stadium. 

28 carries, 2094 yards, 6.4 yards per carry, 21 TD's.

1 minute ago, X-Clown said:

It was one game, against The lions who were actively quitting on Matt Patricia, so much that he was fired 5 days later. 

Matt Patricia went to Detroit from the Patriots with the reputation of being a solid defensive coordinator.  If a defensive coordinator gets shut out 20-0 by a PJ Walker-helmed team with Matt Stafford as his quarterback, does he really deserve a head coaching job?