frankw

1 hour ago, Shotgun said:

Hurney drafted Newton and Fitts drafted Young.....

That's a big gap.

It's a longshot but something could still happen for Bryce Young. I doubt he will ever be anywhere near that significant of a centerpiece as Cam Newton was to the Panthers though. The sad thing is leading up to the draft of all the QB's in the class Stroud reminded me of Cam the most. The way he carried himself. He acted like he actually wanted to prove himself instead of hiding at the combine. He seemed genuine. He was as we know now despite people trying to sabotage him.

At the end of the day no matter how much hopium any of us can fill ourselves with none of us can escape the fact we seemingly shot a brick and faceplanted onto the floor when given an easy layup repeat of the 2011 QB draft class with the first overall pick. We didn't even opt for Marcell Dareus. We took a tiny Blaine Gabbert.

The documentary years from now about the top 2 picks of the 2023 draft is going to be entertaining.

2 hours ago, Johnstonny said:

Where is Mr. Scot?

He's been dealing with some life issues and probably doesn't want to continue to be berated about his outspoken support of Scott Fitterer over the years. Now on the one hand I say at some point we have to let him move on from his mistake. On the other hand though many here know how condescending he could get toward anyone that challenged him on the subject. Funny enough on the subject of David Tepper he used to tell me personally I was being paranoid and engaging in conspiracy theories because I felt Tepper was involving himself too much in team personnel matters. Well look where we are now and look what we know now. Mr. Scot has previously and still can bring good content here. But if he wants to move on from his position on Fitterer he needs to just admit even the man who he used to badmouth on a regular basis for being an awful GM (Marty Hurney) is and was significantly better. At least he could hit in the first damn round!

3 hours ago, jayboogieman said:

A no nonsense coach is needed. I'd be fine with Staley as coach if she wants the job. Ball has too many issues for Charlotte including not playing games. In the article Fowler points out that Hayward played more than Ball the last two seasons.

I had to check this myself.

Gordon has played in 75 games the last 2 seasons compared to 58 for Ball.

Pretty fuging sobering.

1 minute ago, Basbear said:

They signed troy hill who's the same age, he did play better than chinn as a NB.......but given horn missed more than he's played its easy to say CB is the biggest need/want for either 2nd rounders. 

My thing is they normally carry only 4 CBs- horn, jackson, hill, _______ . That's one sad bunch when horn goes on his yearly IR visit. 

Yeah on paper it looks like our divisional opponents will be ripping this secondary a new bunghole. Maybe having Evero coaching the defense will lessen the burden some we'll see.

I had lost track of the fact he will be 34 this summer. I guess that shows our desperation. Also shows how older some of us are getting waiting on this shitshow franchise to finally get it's act together lol. The draft is the better course of action. Let's see if we can actually do that worth a damn now that Bobby Hill is gone.

Nothing against Clifford he seems like a good guy and I appreciate his honesty.

This team desperately needs some new and real leadership though big time. Get a hard nosed coach/GM combo in here who are about basketball and who want players who are about basketball. Anyone not interested in winning basketball games and more interested in Instagram thots and flashy cars can take their services elsewhere. This fanbase wants a team worth cheering for.

Things like this are said about different positions pretty much every single draft and then multiple players from said positions fall.

Horn is the only name that he could fall back on and unfortunately he can't stay healthy. Even looking beyond that Surtain has been the better pick at that position overall homer glasses aside.

Fitterer was a fugazi that had this fanbase sold hook line and sinker on his persona similarly to Gettleman. But at least Gettleman had some level of success at any point. Scott Fitterer is one of the worst general managers in NFL history.

One of the few very real leaders on this team that sets an example for the rest of the roster. Good for Derrick.

1 hour ago, Mother Grabber said:

don’t see them ruining every thread with BY hate. you can’t get more than a few posts into any thread before someone pisses the same tired venomous post about Young.

That will change when Bryce Young rolls into camp and actually shows us something to be hopeful about. Like an actual deep ball connection. Which is kinda important if one wants to be a franchise QB let alone a starting QB for long. We can only hope.

9 hours ago, Mother Grabber said:

ummm…wut? the BY haters are far larger in number and far more vocal and obnoxious than the BY champions 

Ironically the same people you refer to as "champions" were very loud in their declarations that CJ Stroud was a bust back in August when he a threw a pick in preseason.

CJ Stroud might make an MVP push next season.

I'm to the point of almost feeling bad for some of these guys. They really are in store for a treat when that moment sinks in and they realize how much of a me first asshole Aaron Rodgers is.

19 hours ago, csx said:

It went from him having a pretty pass on an otherwise bad game to this. 

The love fest is the predictable trend where in trying to out moan the previous poster by inflating Corall a little more each post. A year ago he was a joke buy because it can be used to whine the tune had changed.

The hyperbole is statement about 1/3 of the playbook. But because it's part of the Huddle group moaning it's not called out as being as absurd as it is.

Constant exaggeration 

I don't know about that particular statement.

But we certainly did have to remove our #1 pick from the field of play in key situations and no matter how anyone can want to spin that you can't walk away from that sight thinking we in any way won the trade.

I suppose it's possible he could show some flashes under Canales. I'm not going to get my hopes up though. If I'm pleasantly surprised however then great I'll gladly take it.

Also I just got in here for the last page of this thread and here I thought I had a bit of a crummy Monday. Whew.....

54 minutes ago, top dawg said:

At the end of the day, the newer generation of coaches and execs have no patience because it is a what-can-you-do-for-me-now league. The league is prioritizing expanding the bag over developing players. If you don't learn right away, you're pretty much screwed, especially at QB. You're either thrown away or put into a box. And, in addition to that, sometimes you're just drafted by dumbasses---into a horrible situation---that don't know how to develop QBs. And, at many times, you won't even get a fair chance based upon your draft position, especially as it relates to another QB on your team that was drafted higher, so, again, that speaks back to development. Whether a QB makes it, and especially makes it big, is sometimes more about pure luck than it is the talent. That's not all the time, but it's probably more times than we care to admit.

Sometimes it's a combination of that. Then sometimes the QB just stinks or doesn't have the drive to be great despite all necessary talent available. For a most recent example. Which we are familiar with. See Sam Darnold.

As much as people can want to make light of his situation being out of the league he still had a better arm than Bryce Young in camp last year. Sad as that is to say.

2 hours ago, SetfreexX said:

That QB play got a 32, 33 year old receiver over 1k yards, with an OL that wasn't much help.

Man is this what counts for silver linings as a Panthers fan now? Goodness gracious.

Only Blaine Gabbert Trevor Siemian Tim Boyle Brett Rypien and Dorian Thompson-Robinson had a lower yards per pass attempt than Bryce Young. And of those only one of them had 8 starts the rest had much less than half the starts Bryce Young had.

Just for comparison sake. In 2020 Teddy Bridgewater who almost everyone here agrees had a mediocre arm and was a limited game manager at best finished the season with 7.6 yards per pass attempt. That would have put him in the top 12 QB's of 2023.

Do you see how far we've sunk from even that? And at the cost of DJ Moore a first overall pick and more.

And you're pumping your fists in the air over Thielen's yardage?

From what I've read so far it sounds like he's a baller but if he got fed up with Kenny Pickett...well...this could get ugly quick. Hopefully Bryce is ready to get all these guys together and build chemistry with them to limit the inevitable growing pains and miscues of a new offense.

4 hours ago, Mage said:

Are you suggesting we give a young player more time before deciding that he sucks?

I'm suggesting that whether it's Mingo the receiver we just acquired from the Steelers the new rookie WR we are soon going to be drafting or whomever our QB still has to be able to get them the ball and particularly on deep passes. Or defenses will keep playing us exactly the same and we will be circling back to the same threads yelling at each other over why we think this or that receiver sucks.

3 hours ago, MasterAwesome said:

I agree that we had a distinct lack of leadership, but I don't know how you can begin to assign the blame to any one individual player.  A head coach, sure.  But I think if your team of grey-haired NFL coaches and multi-year NFL vets has to rely on a 22-year-old rookie to be the sole leader or else everything comes crashing down, then you've got some serious problems in that locker room that go far beyond the QB.  Saying "we were a bad team, ergo Bryce Young is a bad leader" just seems like a weird leap to make.

Surely your criteria for a QB's leadership isn't as simple as his team's W/L record...right?  I'm just curious then, do you think Cam Newton was a good leader every odd season, but a bad leader every even season?  Or is it more likely that team performance is an unreliable metric for leadership?

Blast Young's arm strength and physical size all you want, that's fair game.  But baselessly questioning Young's leadership makes you no better than the people you railed against for questioning Stroud's character in the offseason.  Let's not be one of those people who apply principles inconsistently depending on whether it's someone you like or dislike.

I didn't say it was all on one player and only about winning and losing. But you also want your team to at least have something to build on from losses. Something positive to look back at and say hey we didn't win last week but we had a couple of decent drives to finish the game. Instead of getting your poo pushed in for 4 quarters by a team missing their starting QB.

Why do you feel the need to pull our only MVP in franchise history into this? We aren't talking about Cam Newton. Different player different athlete different vibe different everything. That guy went to a Super Bowl with Ted Ginn Jr as his #1 WR. Nobody is expecting Bryce Young to be Cam Newton. But we're certainly expecting him to be more of a leader than someone like Sam Darnold or Teddy Bridgewater who let's be honest were both a couple of milquetoasts. Especially when you consider that Bryce's leadership ability was 1b to the 1a of his processing ability as the key selling points of selecting him first overall.

And I'm going to have to vehemently disagree with you trying to draw a correlation between simply asking for our #1 pick to spend more time this offseason building a rapport with his receivers and people basically saying CJ Stroud has a low football IQ or poor leadership or low character because of his father or that he's a diva because he didn't attend Peyton Manning's QB camp or because he went to an event wearing one piece of jewelry around his neck instead of sitting at home doing nothing until draft night.

Bryce Young has already been afforded the benefit of the doubt before and following the draft. Certainly moreso than CJ Stroud was. And that is a fact. He is now facing the biggest test of his life as an athlete. I sincerely hope he responds and brings an edge this season. But so far I haven't seen anything to indicate that since finishing with one of the worst rookie seasons of the last few decades he's done much to alter his approach to development that he has operated with since high school and college. Some other QB's who already have the necessary physical traits to overcome other lacking areas might be able to get by without doing that. But unfortunately Bryce Young is already an outlier among outliers. He does not have that built in physical advantage. If he is going to succeed he's really going to have to put in extra work. Yes that involves forms of leadership. That's all I ask. I keep telling you this and explaing it from different angles but you keep trying to circle back to trying to portray me as hating or unfairly placing expectations on him like he's a newborn child and that might work on a social media site speaking on his behalf but it isn't going to matter to any of the defenses he's going to be facing in 17 regular season games next year who already have the majority of a season worth of game tape on him.

I feel like I've said all I can. I don't see it necessary to derail this thread any further.

18 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Also can you clarify your basis for comparison as to how Stroud brings an undisputed presence of leadership while questioning Young's leadership?  What exactly are you basing that off of?

Worst team in the league by a wide margin (didn't we get shut out by the fuging Jaguars lol) and you don't see a distinct lack of leadership? That starts at the top.

Stroud had a good supporting cast but he clearly also helped elevate guys around him and his teammates went out of their way to praise him for it. I hope to see the same from #9 and that will pay dividends in developing both himself WR's like Mingo and the incoming rookie wide receiver from the upcoming draft. But if this team is to take a few steps forward out of the shadow we've created for ourselves this will have to happen. If you feel that's an unreasonable take I don't see how we can go any further in this conversation.

34 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

It's so strange...you complain about people treating Bryce with kiddie gloves, yet you find it so offensive that people say Mingo is not a good route runner?  That's where criticism goes over the line for you?  That's more coddling than I've seen anyone do for Bryce.  Don't talk about people white knighting for Bryce and then be this sensitive to the mildest of criticisms for Mingo.

First of all. Don't come at me sideways with this and act like you haven't seen the loudest Bryce Young defenders shitposting about how big of a bust Jonathan Mingo is while laying out excuses for Young.

If we are talking about lack of effort. They both can and should get the smoke. That goes for any player in that regard. We didn't finish with 2 wins because everyone was laying it on the line. Of course when your QB throws 2 pick sixes to the same defender in one game who is going to go out of their way?

But regardless for the subject you are bringing to me situational awareness is needed. Jonathan Mingo is not sitting on a 40+ million dollar guaranteed contract. This is not Jonathan Mingo's team. He is not the face of the franchise. We didn't trade a premium player and multiple picks including a first overall to acquire him.

It's ultimately up to the QB to lead his team. Why do you have an issue with me or anyone else expecting that of Bryce Young?

By all accounts it looks like we are assuredly drafting another WR in the second round. That rookie will require some refining and he will require his starting QB along with his coaches to guide him in learning the offense. Just as Mingo has. That's what I expect out of my #1 pick. Look what Stroud has done for his receiving core as a rookie. He's also brings an undisputed presence of leadership. That is what I want to see. Plain and simple.

The only thing that truly matters is how well he can draft. I'll have a decent enough answer on that by the end of the year.

I'm very pleasantly surprised. Maybe Morgan has some use as a former player he must have offered a solid pitch considering Clowney could have easily gone to a more viable contender.

Today was a good day. I'll gladly take it.