frankw

14 minutes ago, stbugs said:

We really aren’t. $10M of the $17M in dead cap was from the signing bonus. The signing bonus was $15M paid in 2020 when he signed and was spread to hit the cap $5M each year. No way to get rid of that $10M.

We save $8M in non-guaranteed salary in 2021, $3M of the $10M guaranteed salary in 2021 and save all $21M of non-guaranteed salary in 2022.

It was an awful signing when we should have ridden Grier to a great pick to get our future QB without trading away draft capital. Teddy also cost us Bradberry’s 3rd round comp we could have used for more OL depth on Friday and he also cost us $31M of cap for 4-11. Plus had we decided not to go for it with him, cutting Short and trading Turner for picks only might have occurred. So yes, it was a poo ass signing. 

Thanks for the clarification. I agree with you completely about the signing. We never should have let Bradberry walk either. So much stupidity.

I didn't initially realize we were eating 17 million in dead cap for this. The only bonus is the extra draft pick. Panthers mgmt owes the fans after that terrible signing. We need more than Sam Darnold and Will Grier...

Hallelujah!

17 minutes ago, CRA said:

when we let Star go....run D fell off.  Adding Brown was the start of getting it back.  Brown just not the force Star was out of the gate.  Which isn't a knock on Brown.  We lucked into the #1 overall player IMO in that draft who we only landed because of a medical scare. 

Yeah he was really good for us. Looking back I would have picked Star over Short but what's done is done. Star is talented but remember Hopkins and Kelce were also in that draft and Mathieu too.

14 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Sure but run stopping DT are much much easier to find than a solid LT.  I mean hell we just signed a run stopping DT

Didn't the team have one of the league's worst run defenses the year before we drafted Brown? Pick your poison. If we didn't miss on Greg Little the line might be in better shape right now but Brown has been a much welcomed addition.

Imagine a scenario. It's the night before the draft and you are the Panthers gm fresh off your first hire with such a responsibility. As you take a gander at your qb room you see Teddy Bridgewater Will Grier a former xfl quarterback and your offseason last resort option Sam Darnold from the Jets. Do you pat yourself on the back and say I'm done here or do you exhaust all further options?

Tepper is not setting the draft board. But he has some input like pretty much every other owner. And if you think every owner who does not have a franchise qb isn't in their front office personnel ears telling them the obvious you are living outside of reality. You can't make money off a team without the central piece that brings it all together and that's what this is about. It's a business.

It is a quarterback driven league. These threads are reminiscent of ten years ago. Now the position is even more important. Some people will never get it.

1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

Why does it matter who wants a QB or not? This is about the draft, the risks, etc.  When you say, "There is also the very real possibility that Darnold does not work out..."  are you implying that there is also a chance that he does?  Are you also implying that there is a chance Fields, Wilson, Lance, and Lawrence do not work out?  When you say, "(the odds) are not significantly higher than a rookie..." What is that based on?  Your judgement?  So you are judging what you think I want by making biased, unsubstantiated statements you cannot support to oppose an assumption.  Then you conclude with advice on how we should enjoy this draft.  Nice.

Of course there is a chance Darnold works out I mentioned that in the post. But there is no historical precedent to compare with for this rare situation right? Common sense says the odds are not stacked in favor of Darnold out of the blue becoming an elite quarterback in one offseason wouldn't you agree? If you are telling me you want a qb at pick 8 this thread says otherwise. No one is telling you what to do, I'm not dictating anything to you but simply offering a viewpoint based on an observation I made. Quarterback is and at this point in time likely always will be the most important position on the field so teams will keep drafting them high and yes our team may be one of them again soon we don't know. Anywho good chat.

Well it isn't hard to tell who here does not care for the idea of taking a quarterback in the first round because they make sure to remind you at every opportunity and steer all conversations. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to draft a quarterback. It is understandable to be risk averse. But it is the offseason and what else is there to talk about with the draft two days away? There is also the very real reality that Darnold does not work out. Most of us would be perfectly happy with him becoming a solid starter. But what are the odds? They are not significantly higher than a rookie. We are also desperate to unload the previous quarterback who turned out to be a bust after months of attempts to convince others he was better than he actually was. Just enjoy this brief time of uncertainty and cautiously optimistic discussions because there could be joy or grief around the corner who knows.

On one hand I don't think any front office personnel want to be the first to put this approach to the test if they value their job security if it goes south. On the other hand unforeseen events after signing a player such as a quarterback to a massive contract are now like it or not a prevalent variable to be under consideration moving forward in light of recent events with the Texans. It remains to be seen what kind of ripple effect that will have on the rest of the league in the years to come with increasing contracts.

Peter King sucks but this pick would make me feel hopeful about 2021. Will Grier and PJ Walker are not unknowns we have seen them in action so a quarterback in one of the early rounds seems inevitable even if Fields isn't available. I know the team is talking up Sam as they should be but they are not rolling the dice with just Darnold without going down swinging on draft night.

16 minutes ago, @bonafidebanter said:

I say this every year the draft comes around. Not only has Kiper been wrong on some prospects, he's been awfully wrong a lot!! He practically made the Panthers draft Jimmy Clausen in the 2nd round of the 2010 draft. That year, Kiper had Jimmy Clausen as the top rated QB in the class with Sam Bradford (2), Colt McCoy (3), Dan LeFevour (4), and The Golden Calf of Bristol (5). lol @ Kiper's rankings! Clausen finished the 2010 season with 157 completions out of 299 attempts (52.5%), 1,558 yards with 3 touchdowns and 9 interceptions. He was sacked 33 times and fumbled 9 times, losing two. On May 6, 2010, a report on the website "Pro Football Talk" stated that, "Steve Smith 'basically thinks Jimmy is a punk.'". In 2011, the Panthers used their number one overall draft pick to select Cam Newton. The rest is history.  

p.s. During the hype of Clausen in the 2010 draft, Kiper stated on live TV, "If Jimmy Clausen is not a successful quarterback in the NFL, I'm done. That's it, I'm out."  Too bad he didn't follow up on that quote!

This is all true. But sometimes you have to endure really shitty circumstances to get to a better situation. For better or worse the Clausen pick opened the door for what would become several really fun years. You just never know what awaits around the corner. Maybe we'll find that again.

1 minute ago, Moo Daeng said:

I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't summon the crew when the positive replies are too high. It's always the same group that shows up when the mood in a thread is optimistic. They don't post otherwise 

Those with opposing views need to find common ground which is we all want a winning team and a return to relevancy. How we get there is up in the air but we should not seek to push away anyone who is too optimistic or pessimistic if they are willing to be rational. I cannot blame anyone for being apprehensive about the approach as of late. I am a Panthers fan but I can say without question we face planted after the Cam release. Bridgewater was a panic signing and it hurt us bad. People can talk about how it isn't as bad of a contract all they like but we wasted a critical year and didn't even secure a top five pick for our troubles. We must learn from these gaffes or we could find ourselves in a loop like other failed franchises over the last decade some of which are only just now finding some footing in the league.

Considering Darnold by all accounts was a last resort move based on who else we went after it absolutely stands to reason that if a quarterback we like falls in the draft he will be the selection and they will compete in camp. What people need to consider are the ramifications of the failure in the Teddy move. The front office does not want to find themselves backed into a corner like that again without a viable fallback if avoidable.

51 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Build it up all you want but it's still a huge gamble.

You haven't heard? The folks who think we can make a running back the face of the franchise have confirmed he is the next Drew Brees.

1 hour ago, TheRumGone said:

How does one compare trading for a pro bowl franchise left tackle to protect your all pro, mvp qb to us trading for sam fuging darnold? 
 

the mental gymnastics some of y’all do is quite insane.

Well this is the place where some people did somersaults when the last long term quarterback exited the franchise. Insanity is kind of the point. Part of me can't help but laugh at the recent results. Maybe this next failed quarterback we throw a bag of money at will be the answer.

26 minutes ago, Cdparr7 said:

Cam Newton is treated like Jesus and literally plays for Belichick and threw more INTs than TDs.

 

Drew Brees his first 3 years:

2001- 1TD 0INT

2002- 17TD 15INT

2003- 11TD 15INT

Newton is soon to be 32 with an arm that isn't the same anymore and likely headed to a backup role if he accepts. If you are comparing Sam to Brees this early you may want to temper your expectations. Let us see how he responds to new coaching.

They would be fools not to take a future qb if the opportunity arises. It stings they are even in position to do that since they have had our number for what seems like several years now.

2 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

How does he have better odds than a rookie? A top pick getting traded after 3 bad years has very small odds of becoming a franchise QB?

Three years in the NFL versus zero. You guys are very argumentative. I'm saying there is a minimal difference in the odds of his success and that of a first round rookie.

This is the same discussion from ten years ago. The only difference now is people are choosing to believe things will be different for Darnold. Sam has slightly better odds than a rookie qb but the belief that he can turn his career around here still requires you to look past historical precedent.

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

We're definitely not "one player away" which is a big reason why I think it's silly to bring in yet another quarterback rather than addressing other needs.

What me or you may deem silly is irrelevant to whatever the front office is looking for. They have all but directly confirmed all options are on the table for the first round. Situationally I doubt we will have the opportunity to consider a quarterback if the top of the draft falls as expected. But if a quarterback or two is still sitting and waiting by the time our pick is up we both know due diligence dictates that will be under significant consideration.

20 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

But the guaranteed, can't-miss, super franchise quarterback that'll take us to the promised land regardless of whether we protect him or not does, right?

There is no can't miss prospect that's the point. You're never one player away. But individual decisions absolutely have lasting impacts. Like say for instance imagine if we took Dareus 10 years ago like you wanted. What would the last decade have looked like? As it stands we are putting our hopes and prayers in Sam Darnold pulling a full 180 on his career. Does that not speak volumes to just how important the position has become that we are that desperate despite already having a 60 million dollar  quarterback contract on the books that no one else wants? There is more than one way to build a roster but there is no dispute in what binds said roster together.

It seems the last few months of draft hype has created a disconnect in the reality of the expectations of a first round left tackle that has shifted to this mythical franchise trajectory altering prospect some fans have created in their heads. It would be nice if that player actually existed.

1 hour ago, mrcompletely11 said:

We had a qb and no line and never had back to back winning seasons.  In fact we got said qb killed.  Its a happy medium we are trying to reach

The quarterback was inconsistent at times but before the arm started to go we more often than not always had a shot at a win against any team in the league. And that was without a franchise left tackle. To me the biggest contributing factor in the lack of back to back winning seasons in that era was from the front office. We had a core still in place in 2016 to make another run and finish with another winning record at minimum. But we sabotaged ourselves. We also truthfully didn't fight enough on behalf of our signal caller because regardless of the void at left tackle there were numerous instances of headhunting at that time that went unaddressed and we basically threw our hands up and relented. But we cannot make that same mistake again and throw our hands up because we are afraid to take a quarterback if the opportunity arises. Especially if as you mentioned you are committed to finally ending the lack of consecutive winning seasons. The task of changing that situation in this current version of the NFL begins and ends with a franchise quarterback and there is no disputing that if your viewpoint is rooted in reality. Many of us hope that Sam Darnold can be that for us but to put all of our eggs in that basket without attempting to have a fallback plan knowing what we know after 25 years of existence would be foolish.