Icege

1 minute ago, mav1234 said:

Are you 100% certain this is the narrative you want to go with? That people were talking poo about Bryce in the thread?

Who brought up Bryce here? Who started trolling first?

Nobody had said anything negative about Bryce and in fact agreed with you that he appeared better than JJ!  Then you had to go and start trolling fans about Stroud for obvious reasons.

Oh I for sure did in that thread. Look at the date though: that was right after beating the Falcons 30-0. What do you think was happening in a bunch of other threads? Do you think that the haters were in other threads giving Bryce his flowers or were they doing their best to try and say it was because Penix sucks? 

You got me doing that in one thread. Now how many threads has frankw done that in? If it's really equal then it shouldn't be more than one or two, correct?

21 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Dude. I like you and respect your contributions. But you went into a thread to randomly bitch about Stroud in a way to compare to Bryce. 

"Both sides" do it. And sometimes "haters" will say something like "x or y does well in spite of circumstances" and people jump in defending Bryce when his name isn't even used.

Whether or not it is equal in trolling it is very clear both sides are doing it.

Oh I for sure went into a thread where folks were talking poo about Bryce after a win to troll them about CJ the same way they try to troll about Bryce after every game. It's not like I hadn't made good faith attempts to engage previously.

Let's call a spade a spade here: Bryce haters are convinced that there is nothing he can do to ever be an NFL QB because he's too small. Bryce "stans" see that the kid can play despite his physical limitations and that the team around him is still being put together. Only one of these groups is pretending that they know the future.

If the best effort I'm going to get from folks is trolling then... well... that's all they're going to get. Sucks, because I'd love to have an actual conversation, but that requires the other side to want to have a conversation as well. I could take some accountability I suppose... but I'll follow the lead of others and say that it's because the team isn't good and not because of conscious choices I'm making.

1 hour ago, mav1234 said:

There are also posters that go into every thread period and bring up Bryce Young somehow in a positive light, regardless of context, quite often to knock other players (sometimes not even on our team). And we had a game day thread where every three posts someone would go "if only Bryce Young had made that tackle" or some crap.

"If only Bryce were <height>", he'd <insert stupid thing here>" was the bit and in direct response to multiple posters ridiculously blaming Bryce (and only Bryce) for the punt returns vs. New England. :3

I understand that folks desire balance, hence the "Bryce stans vs. Bryce haters" narrative but it's abundantly clear that the only people going into threads just to talk about Bryce are the haters. Meanwhile, daring to disagree that Bryce was completely at fault for something that happened on special teams gets the "stan" label.

Shoot, I'm sure folks lump me in as a Bryce stan (Brycen stan? Absolutely. Bryce stan? Nah) just because I have the audacity to look at what the rest of the team is and isn't doing. 

2 hours ago, WUnderhill said:

Every round him begging the opposing fan base to out vote us and then basically abandoning the project at the end was hilarious.

iirc didn't he admit that the Panthers won the vote but he was giving it to the Chargers anyways?

He was never the same afterwards

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

I know everyone loves Hunt but Lewis is the better player. 

He graded out better last year as well. With BC doing well as a starter in Hunt's place, if DLew has durability issues as the season goes on I can see the team looking to move on from his contract to retain BC. Hunt's out isn't until after next season, but after this season cutting DLew would save ~$9M iirc.

Personally, I'd love to keep all three while they're still operating under Bryce's rookie deal.

Pointing out that Bryce has had 8 GWDs and he wasn't the reason that the team had to comeback (sans vs. MIA) triggered... this?

Ooh wee mayne.

1 hour ago, NAS said:

Call me crazy but if you’re in the bottom 7 in efficiency using Zone 84% of the time why not try something else? You paid Jaycee top 5 CB money use him more effectively. Zone is only efficient if you can generate a good pass rush to force a QB into mistakes otherwise you will get picked apart

To be fair, while not having Jaycee follow their best receiver seems foolish he does essentially eliminate 1/3 of the field which does make things easier for the defense as well.

<insert obligatory whining about PFF here>

6 hours ago, fieryprophet said:

What's up gents, the OGs remember me, the guy who single-handedly gave the Panthers the greatest uniform in history moniker. Not too long after that I got involved with Pro Football Focus (pre-Collinsworth acquisition) and ended up taking backseat here to preserve some objectivity. But from a distance I noticed a lot.

After the end of the Cam era this place devolved into the most un-fun, petty, negative cesspool of whining and bitching that has ever graced the internet. The worst part of it all is that the level of discussion turned into the most ill-informed, hot-take, unnuanced crap, rife with people talking out of their posteriors as if they have any clue about what they are watching. Once you get into the professional side of the sport and actual film rooms, you start to understand there's an absurd number of moving parts to pretty much every snap and the details you are privy to are truly only half the picture.

The absolute most important thing I learned from being part of professional level football analysis is that quarterbacking is literally the most intricate and difficult position in all of professional sports, and that the NFL itself is struggling to develop any workable model that allows them to understand what makes one succeed vs what makes one fail. Because of this paradox it has also made the quarterback position itself grossly overvalued from a fan and media standpoint, creating an absurd fixation on the results delivered by a single player who has to rely on the contributions of everyone around them. This also drives the dreaded inflation of QB salaries that inevitably cause even elite teams to lose key talent all to pour cash into the one player supposed to be able to single-handedly elevate the entire team (and defense and special teams and coaching and ownership by some mysterious proxy), yet without those same players even talented teams can wander the wilderness searching for the right guy to take advantage of their talent window.

The discussions the last few years around Bryce has personified this insanity, as this board has devolved into some sort of electronic civil war between the hyperbolic Young supporters and the vitriolic Bryce haters. The reality, like practically everything in this world, is somewhere in the middle. He has traits that can absolutely elevate a team with creativity, play recognition, off-arm angle throws, mental toughness, etc. He's also physically limited, with mostly "good-enough" qualities for most situations that a professional quarterback is asked to do, and will never be an overpowering physical force like pre-injury Cam. But "good-enough" physicality represents a large majority of championship-winning quarterbacks, even in the modern era. There's a reason the corpse of Peyton Manning took the chip from elite physical specimen Cam, because the team surrounding him was talented enough to get him there, while we all know Cam was the driving force of that 2015 team. That's no knock on him, that's just how the game of football tends to work: the more complete team usually wins.

The summary is this: if this team lives or dies solely on the performance of its quarterback, then it is absolutely a paper tiger even if he plays brilliantly week in and out. There are no superheroes in this sport, there are only conduits that proxy the collective efforts of much of the team around them. And no one alive can tell you how the position is played perfectly, it's all a confluence of circumstance and what unique collection of traits each player brings to the position, which can never be truly recreated season after season, even for the same player on the same team.

If this place remains a raging hellscape of idiotic hot takes I will happily remove myself again and do something more productive for yet another decade, but maybe's there hope that we can all get back to the old adage, and keep pounding.

The world owes you many thanks for how much that entire uniform contest broke Dave Dameshek.

16 hours ago, CRA said:

I'd bet you a dollar Long hasn't watched 3 Panther Bryce Young games in his life lol.   Unless you are a Tampa, Falcons, Saints fan....no one outside Carolina has. 

He reviews the games every week on his podcast with Nate Collins.

Lemme know which banking app you want to to send me that dollar on. 

1 hour ago, Navy_football said:

That's not an excuse. That's just facts. BY absolutely needs to be more consistent, but there really is a lack of speed on this offense. Love to see more Jimmy Horn to correct that.

Maaaaaan... Jimmy's got a different type of speed that the offense has needed for a few seasons now. The sooner he can win the trust of the coaches, the better.

44 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Just my opinion... if you unrealistically blame BY for losses, then you should unrealistically give him credit for wins. Otherwise you're saying every loss is his fault but every win is someone else's. Can you see the inconsistency in that statement? Just saying.

When I saw folks last week saying that they were afraid they would die before the Panthers made it to the Super Bowl again and it's all Bryce's fault, I knew that some of them had entered territory where therapy is their only hope.

Sucks for Wilson. Good for the Panthers tho!

18 hours ago, CRA said:

Bryce Young overall has been a reason and often big reason why the Panthers have trailed in the 4th quarter in literally every single game of his entire career….minus one game. 

and again, the entire point is addressing the suggestion BY is somehow more clutch than Jake and Cam because of his GWD numbers. Thats dumb.  And that is what we are ultimately addressing here 

BY isn’t even on track to be the 3rd best QB in Panther history.  Not even close.  Bringing up Cam and Jake is blasphemy and almost anti-Panthering in the name of stan-ing for BY. 

2 hours ago, CRA said:

I specifically called out it's a joke to bring up Jake and Cam when talking about Bryce Young and his GWDs....(it's LITERALLY mentioned in the OP.

On 10/12/2025 at 5:42 PM, TN05 said:

2023

• 15-13 over Houston
• 9-7 over Atlanta

2024

• 23-22 over New Orleans
• 20-17 over NYG
• 36-30 over Arizona
• 44-38 over Atlanta

2025

• 27-24 over Miami
• 30-27 over Dallas

He already has almost halfway as many GWDs as Cam (17) and Delhomme (22).

CRA... Are you really claiming that it is blasphemous to point out that Bryce has half as many GWDs as previous Panthers' QBs (a simple fact that doesn't detract from Cam nor Jake)? Who are we allowed to compare his stats to then? Keith Null? Does this also mean that you and others will stop trying to compare Cam, Aiden O'Connell, and other QBs to Bryce?

That's beyond ridiculous, but seeing as you're still saying we're behind in every game because of Bryce after just establishing that the only GWD where Bryce was at fault for putting the team behind (MIA) I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. Disappointed, sure, but not surprised.

Gotta let Nic + Princely develop. They're both showing promise. Maybe take a high upside guy in the draft if they present the best value to get a young three-man rotation going.

I wouldn't be mad at Corbett starting at RG, but please let Mays continue to play center.

Chuba, Turk, Coker, and JT0 would be a nice boost to say the least.

22 hours ago, ProcessBlue2 said:

The fact that Brycen Tremayne is 3rd in receiving yards on this team and he didn’t even have a catch yesterday is a little concerning.

FEED TREMAYNE

I can't wait to see the team march out TMac, XL, Coker, and Tremayne only to run the ball for 20+ yards on the play.

I can't see McDaniel returning as the HC next season. Seems to be falling apart down there.

If the Falcons fall apart I could see Morris getting the axe.

14 hours ago, CRA said:

No, not just the Atlanta game.  I don’t feel the need to go through every game and point out BY had measly 126 yards vs the Giants and the D and kicker won it in overtime. 

Bryce Young overall has been a reason and often big reason why the Panthers have trailed in the 4th quarter in literally every single game of his entire career….minus one game. 

and again, the entire point is addressing the suggestion BY is somehow more clutch than Jake and Cam because of his GWD numbers. Thats dumb.  And that is what we are ultimately addressing here 

BY isn’t even on track to be the 3rd best QB in Panther history.  Not even close.  Bringing up Cam and Jake is blasphemy and almost anti-Panthering in the name of stan-ing for BY. 

You don't have to go through every game and point it out as we are discussing his GWDs. You specifically called out that he had GWDs because he is the reason the team is always playing from behind. We looked at those eight games and only Miami stands out as one where he put the team in a hole to begin with. You've added the Atlanta game where the team didn't score a TD but only kicked field goals.

You're not trying to change what we're discussing to fit your feelings re: Bryce. That's not necessary. We are discussing GWDs per the thread topic. We have also shown that your opinion that the team has had to always come back due to Bryce was proven to be false as was the claim that "minus one game" was his fault. Appealing to emotion afterwards by trying to broadly paint the rest of the losses in the same way just doesn't work.

Where in the Hell did you get that the entire point is the suggestion that BY is more clutch than Jake and/or Cam? It's giving something to be positive about in that Bryce has shown the ability to comeback and win games despite the calamity that might have taken place to put them behind to begin with. How is that blasphemy?

At the moment? Absolutely not.

Maybe if they drop the next three in a row and go into the deadline at 3-6 I can see an argument to be made to move Rico as he's on a 1yr deal. I'd rather keep Chuba's contract though and roll with ETN + JB next season. The team will have plenty of time to see how JB is looking going into the offseason a year-plus after his surgery to know whether or not they need to plan for another direction.

10 hours ago, mav1234 said:

Alright but to say that he was only average on the game?  Do you agree with that?

I forgot to mention my thoughts on the rushing grade!

He ran his ass off both weeks. I can't remember the stat offhand but didn't he have something crazy like 120+ yards after contact vs. Dallas? Against Miami he had lanes as wide as the entirety of I-95 to run through which is why his rushing grade wasn't as high as this week's. He's ran like a man possessed and going to earn himself some money in the offseason.

10 hours ago, mav1234 said:

Alright but to say that he was only average on the game?  Do you agree with that?

His route running was not very good in this game, especially when compared to the previous week. There were at least three playactions ran where I couldn't tell if he was going to be pass blocking or running a route with how little effort he ran with.

They also dinged him for the fumble on the play where XL lateraled to him.

29.8 fumble grade, 6.1 pass block grade, and 40.0 receiving grade really hurt his overall score. Personally, I'd have put him in the mid-to-high 70s on the day. I don't think his receiving grade should've been 40.0 but can see an argument for in the 50s. Maybe his pass blocking grade could've also been in the teens since he did win on the final rep handily.

Just re-watched the receiving TD for Rico and it was a hideous route. DaRon Bland left his zone to cover over top of TMac though which left the area wide open for Rico to get to. Very surprised that they gave Bland a 66.5 coverage grade as I recall him getting picked on a couple of times (and giving up the 4th down throw to Renfrow by giving an incredibly soft cushion).

Rico's four snaps in pass pro:

• Q1 04:48 | 1st & 10 | CAR 20
  Bryce's 8yd scramble early in the game was because S Donovan Wilson steamrolled Rico in the backfield on a blitz, flushing Bryce out of the pocket. Could have hit XL in the corner for a big gain otherwise.
• Q3 07:35 | 1st & 10 | CAR 33
  Marist Liufau blows right passed Rico and chases Bryce down for a sack that results in -5yds on the play.
• Q4 12:24 | 1st & 2 | DAL 2
  Completely whiffs trying to go low on Sam Williams who effortlessly gets around him and swats at Bryce. Bryce fortunately was able to shrug off and step up here to deliver the ball for TMac's second TD.
• Q4 02:36 | 3rd & 4 | DAL 40
  Rico picks up Shemar James attacking the A-gap and stands him up. This was the one rep that he won. Was also the play where the Cowboys got away with holding TMac.

So three bad and one good rep that came against a rookie 5th-rounder. The 6.1 pass block score makes sense to me after reviewing the tape.

2 hours ago, CRA said:

the reason? or a reason? 

he is a reason, a lot of the time.  He is a role player.  And as a role player, we largely get a very low ceiling of offensive production from the QB  spot and passing game most weeks.  That's been a pretty consistent aspect as of the Bryce Young era. 

If the offense has zero TDs on the day and a football game is won off of 3 FGs (9 points).....I'd say Bryce Young has a LOT to do with being in that scenario lol 

and the entire point, is countering the implication that Young is somehow more clutch or better than Cam or Jake in pressure moments.  Which is absurd.  Bryce just lives in losing scenarios late. Every single week.  Which wasn't Cam or Jake.   Where essentially any game the Panthers find a way to win will log as a GWD because Bryce Young teams are always down in the 4th (factually speaking).....even if Bryce is a spectator largely in the win. 

 

 

 

 

So just the Atlanta game with the 9-6 score and the recent one vs Miami are Bryce's fault that the team was behind?

In a game where JD DiRenzo and Nash Jensen took nearly 40 snaps combined at RG? With DJ Chark, Jonathan Mingo, Ihmir Smith-Marsette, and Stephen Sullivan as his weapons and still going 18/24 (75%)? Where the OL couldn't win with Chuba on 4th & 1 and gave up three sacks?

That one is completely on Bryce putting the team in a hole to start?