Mr Mojo Risin

Fans on this forum actually cheered when Tepper/Hurney released Cam Newton. They thought we were about to turn the page and have a nice shiny pristine looking offense based off of "analytics" led by the indomitable duo of Matt Rhule and Joe Brady. How'd that turn out?

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

So we have one. One player who has developed.

In no way does Bryce deserve all the blame for our offensive woes and I don't think anyone has really suggested that. If we had a great QB we'd still have a bland system, struggling OL, and subpar skill position players. My issue with Bryce is his numerous technique issues combined with his low physical ceiling. He just hasn't given us very many at all plays to give us hope that he'll live up to the investment we made. I mean, if I'm being honest you could build a better QB highlight reel out of the Bengals' and Jags' backup QBs from their recent game than you could Bryce using his entire season of film. I honestly don't think that's an exaggeration.

No doubt it hasn't been pretty but there seems to have been dysfunction in the coaching staff from the get go. Why would they all sign off on not working on foot work/technique in the offseason? That was Reichs decision? Then what was McCowns role? Currently Bryce doesn't have a QB coach lol its all just really really weird and I definitely blame Tepper for putting that sort of environment together there were just too many coaches with too many different philosophies. On paper it looked great but in reality no one was on the same page it seems. Young needs a legit chance to start over this offseason. He took his lumps this year and unfortunately looks to be developing bad habits and it's getting worse as the season rolls on. I do wonder how much it could have benefited him to sit for a few weeks after the Bears blunder. We'll never know. Just have to hope he can get some proper coaching and improve next year. I don't expect him to have textbook technique because he's below average when it comes to size so it will look a little different than it would with someone who has prototypical size for the position but he has to speed up whatever he's doing I will say the casual slow drop back does throw the timing of the offense off by a good bit. Gotta get that fixed forsure.

4 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I see a lot of people thinking it's an OL issue or it's an offensive skill position talent issue or it's a QB issue or it's a coaching/scheming issue or it's a talent evaluation issue.

The simple answer is "yes". The answer to all those questions is "yes" because the issue is that at the foundation, the Panthers are a poorly ran football organization.

Our schemes don't fit our talent. Aside from Bryce, we tend to draft high RAS prospects who need technique development, but when was the last time we actually developed a player? One of our big talent issues is that our draft picks tend to be as good as they're going to get the day we draft them. From then on they either plateau or regress. It's hard to develop talent in an environment of coaching revolving doors and constant schematic and football philosophy turmoil.

Our last coach openly talked about the weekly meetings with Tepper and how Tepper is a very involved owner before being fired. Tepper's influence on personnel decisions and meddling down to the level of individual play calls is widely rumored at this point.

Long story short is we have a David Tepper problem. He keeps thinking we're one knee jerk move away from being a contender and he seems utterly clueless that building a football organization and then a football team from within that organization is a process. There aren't any bandaid quick fixes in the NFL and as long as he's constantly searching for that we're going to continue to be an ever worsening poo show.

He keeps looking for that one thing that's going to turn everything around whether it's hiring a hot shot college staff or hiring a complete retread highly experienced NFL staff or trading up to #1 to get what he views as a super processor QB but he either can't or refuses to acknowledge that we aren't one thing away from being a good football ORGANIZATION. He's the problem and that's a BIG problem because an ownership issue is the one thing you can't fix. You can't fire the owner. Until he realizes that he has to focus first on building a quality football organization we're doomed and the first step to building that quality football organization is seeing himself out of it.

He needs to be honest with himself. David Tepper the owner would have already fired David Tepper the President of Football Operations which is essentially the role that he's filling. He has to recognize this reality and essentially fire himself from his current role and redefine his role within the organization because it's very obvious that this current approach hasn't worked, isn't working, and is unlikely to work in the future.

So David, if you or anyone with your ear reads this, please hire someone qualified that you trust to build you a football organization and give that person the space and freedom to do it.

I agree but I'd have to say Luvu has developed from a relatively unknown player into a pretty good one. Idk if I'd credit the org/coaching staff for him developing vs him just coming into his own and being a good player. This is why I also have trouble putting all of our offensive struggles on Young. He does deserve some blame and he very well could be one of the bigger busts of this decade but for me it's too soon to put all of that on him because look at this dumpster fire that drafted him. He didn't go to the Chiefs with Andy Reid, Eagles with Sirriani, 49ers with Shanahan, Dolphins with Mike McDaniel etc etc. Hopefully it gets better and Tepper strikes gold with his next hire but I doubt it. That really is our only hope back to relevancy because unfortunately the Teppers aren't going anywhere

39 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Bro are you even watching the games?

Defense hasn't been the problem. For you to single out one of our better defensive players when he isn't even close to being the main problem is stupid.

 

Go off though. This offense will continue to struggle and you will keep ignoring it because you focused on Burns.

Just because the defense has been playing well doesn't mean Burns has been playing good or living up to everything we turned down for him. You guys want to harp on everything we gave up for Young because he's not flourishing in a severely flawed offense that has no foundational pieces to build on. Yet Burns is in the perfect system on a good enough defense with good enough players around him and not living up to everything we turned down for him, and some how that's okay and he gets a free pass. That makes absolutely no sense.

On 12/4/2023 at 5:53 PM, CamWhoaaCam said:

Check the post below.

 

Bryce actually deserves hate. This offense is hard to watch and he's getting coaches fired.

Lol. Man. I can't with you. Your thinking is so ass backwards it's insane. Bryce Young is in an impossible situation as a rookie QB. I'm sorry that's so hard for you to see. Show me another rookie QB with a worse Oline and WRs than Bryce has had to work with all year. Show me. His OC has never called plays in the NFL before. The scheme is unimaginative, and rarely has play designs that help our league worst WR core get open. The Oline allows the most pressure up the middle in the NFL. The owner is calling plays lol its a fuging circus and an Impossible situation.

Meanwhile Brian Burns is surrounded by one of the best DTs in the NFL as his running mate and is now playing in a scheme that should MAXIMIZE his skill set. Even with all of the injuries in the secondary they have been more than serviceable. Brian Burns is the one with no excuse for lack of production. Not Bryce fuging Young.

24 minutes ago, Score Board said:

The NFL is exposing Bryce Young’s weaknesses. Do yall realize The Bucs didn’t even play with linebackers yesterday. They played with only safeties and cornerbacks in the secondary daring him to throw. Right now he is the worst starting quarterback in the NFL. Will he get better I don’t know. And this is not hate I feel sorry him.

So they took their LBers out of the game to add more DBs. Wouldn't that single they are not afraid of the running game since that is where LBers have most of their impact? Putting more DBs in the game would signal they are afraid of the pass and are daring us to run the ball.

Now if they crowded the LoS with nothing but Dlineman and LBers to stop the run and left the CBs in press man across the board with no saftey help or a single high, then that would signal that they do not respect our passing game and are selling out to stop the run. The situation you described is the complete opposite of that.

Wow a lot of big brains in this thread with some very definitive statements. Just think so far in your lifetime every single choice you have made has lead you to poo posting on a 1-11 football team's message board. Ya'll aren't as bright as you think you are and that is a fact. The all knowing voices of the Carolina Huddle. Lol. At this point I hope Bryce is the starter for the next 10 years maybe it will get some of you clowns to finally abandon ship

49 minutes ago, frankw said:

The most pro ready of the QB class needs perfect circumstances to be even serviceable as a starter and we've got people within the building texting Ben Johnson like "run.." lol.

This is an embarrassment.

More exaggeration. Doesn't need to be league best. No where has anyone said something that stupid. He needs better than the worst collection of oline/rb/te/wr talent in the league. Period.

1 hour ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Saying Cj who is setting records on a 3 win team last year would struggle here in the same way on a team that won 7 is already funny. But saying bryce would be doing well on the texans is just pure comedy. 

Thinking teams remain the same from year to year and thinking prior year records are some sort of indictment on the current year is actually the comedy part. It just shows you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to this sport. Every team starts completely over in the offseason. Especially teams that change their entire coaching staff. The personnel change, the players change. Injuries. There are so many different factors that weigh on a team from year to year. Look at the 2015 Panthers. They went 15-1 to 6-10 the following year. First team in NFL History to go 15-1 and miss the playoffs the following year. What's your explanation for that? By your logic they should have went undefeated or at the very least secured double digit wins. Would love to hear an explanation

2 hours ago, Jackie Lee said:

A bunch of y'all didn't feel bad for Corral. How about Penix at the top of the 2nd? BY not making this throw

 

Pretty sure he made a similar pass to Thielen after spinning out of a sack but it was to the opposite side of the field. Grasping at straws trying to find anything to throw shade on our QB. I think it's time for some of yall to finally go root for a new team because garbage takes like this are getting really really old.

https://youtube.com/shorts/uZOESVlpNdk?si=ksAtrj9iz9itpAi1

Only difference is the college WR actually had separation for his QB to throw the ball. Thielen had 0 separation and Bryce still threw a dot. Similar route both are running to the corner pylon Penix had about 37 air yards compared to Bryce's 35.

55 minutes ago, Mr Mojo Risin said:

Which QB in NFL History had a successful season with an offense on par or worse than what Young is currently playing with? Care to list some examples because I'm genuinely curious

I'm still waiting. Since, you know, elite QBs are supposed to "lift" the talent around them there should be plenty of examples of good/great QBs doing just that.

Bottom 3 offensive line, bottom 3 receiving core, HC that just got canned. Yet still produced pro bowl numbers and a top 20 offense? Who?

Which QB had a complete s*** show going on around them yet still produced. I'm dieing to know some of these guys but no one has been able to produce any names

Pressured on 24% of dropbacks

Nowhere to go with the ball on 33% of dropbacks

And you guys expect him to put up probowl numbers week in and week out because he was a #1 overall pick? The logic just doesn't make sense

5 minutes ago, TN05 said:

A good player on a bad team doesn't necessarily look bad. And Young hasn't just looked bad - he's looked like the worst QB in the league, and perhaps in the last decade.

That could change but you can't just blame how bad he looks on everyone around him.

Which QB in NFL History had a successful season with an offense on par or worse than what Young is currently playing with? Care to list some examples because I'm genuinely curious

-31st ranked offensive line

-29th ranked receiving core

-7th most QB under pressure

-Old and outdated offensive scheme

-First HC in NFL History with back to back midseason firings

-OC that has never called plays in the NFL before

Huddle: OUR QB SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HES SHORT AND HAS A NOODLE ARM!!!!!!!

Must be something in the water down there in Carolina because that is one backward ass thought process.

5 minutes ago, Stingray3030 said:

For sure - even just recently people are like "but Burrow....but Herbert....but Hurts".  Burrow had Higgins, Mixon, and Boyd...then got Chase.  Hurts was not good rookie year then got Devonte, AJ Brown, Goedert.  Herbert had Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, and Ekeler.  Bryce doesn't have a single Pro Bowler on this offense - or even a significant starter to depend on.  When your best option is old, slow Thielen.....

Yea almost like NFL teams gave us the blueprint on how to have your young QB be successful early on in their career. The Texans followed that blueprint. The Panthers did the complete opposite. They gutted their offense. Can you imagine what DJ Moore and CMC could be doing for Young right now? I'm sure Frank would still have a job but that's beside the point. Most QBs need weapons to be successful. That's why 95% of teams do everything they can to surround their QB with as much talent and firepower as possible. Except the Carolina Panthers.

12 minutes ago, Stingray3030 said:

With you completely - although I do give alot of credit to Trevor also - being a Clemson guy I watched every college game of his and he was the best college QB I ever saw.  His final year at Clemson he had no one to throw to and still put up crazy stats.  But I just think most of the people here like creating drama and crying cause they think they knew better before the draft.

Trevor definitely does deserve credit. He didn't achieve those numbers by mistake he put in a lot of effort and I'm sure he studied film. But it just goes to show that even generational can't miss prospects like Lawrence need some sort of help in the NFL and can't get by on just talent and name alone. That sentiment echoes even louder for Bryce Young because he has even more to overcome

5 minutes ago, Stingray3030 said:

Even worse look at Peyton Manning rookie year

The only reason I bring up Lawrence is because its a lot similar of a comparison than Joe Burrow (curious why he chose to use Burrow as his example as well). Lawrence had Chark and Shenault as WRs that year (chark only played 4 games, laviska all 16) Lawrence threw 12 TDs to 17 INTs has a YPA of 6.0 and a QBR of 71.9. Young has a 5.4 YPA and a 74.9 QBR. Both had dysfunctional coaches for very different reasons but both were fired during the season. Reich after 11 games, Meyer after 13.

With a new outlook and solid HC hire in Doug Pederson Lawrence was able to have a very good year 2 under Pederson and Co. Why is it such an asinine thought on this board that our rookie QB could be better with a better staff that actually knows what the fug is going on and isn't living on a name that they made for themselves 5-10+ years ago? The Jags retooled their offense and brought in legit talent surrounding their young QB with young playmakers and he improved.

However, I'm sure the coaching changes and personnel had very very little to do with Trevor Lawrence's big turn around in year 2 and the only reason he improved was because he's 6'6 220 pounds with a laser rocket arm. /sarcasm /huddlelogic2023

1 hour ago, BrianS said:

Here are some facts, do with them what you will.

When talking about Mingo as a prospect, I look at all WR's drafted after him this year.  Those drafted before him are irrelevant since we couldn't have chosen them while still drafting Bryce.  Of those 22, only five have outperformed Mingo:  Puka Nakua, Tank Dell, Jayden Reed, Demario Douglas and Rashee Rice.  Of those five, it's clear why Nakua and Rice have done so well.  Does Mingo need to improve?  Yes, of course.  But in truth he's performed about as well as you could expect a rookie WR to perform in his situation.

When looking at Fitterer (or Rhule, or whoever is running the show) as a GM in the draft, you've only got three years of data.  Of all players selected, the only one drafted in the first five rounds who is no longer on the team is Brandon Smith.  And FWIW, Smith is on the Eagles practice squad.  You can argue that our roster is low on talent - you won't be wrong.  But the guys "Fitterer" has chosen are generally still here.

Now, using this . . . 

. . . as your justification is weak sauce.  In fact, it's just this argument brought us Sam Darnold.  Yikes!  This is a terrible argument. 

Great players play great regardless of what's around them.  Joe Burrow was sacked 32 times as a rookie before his injury.  Had he played out a 17 game season at that rate he would have been sacked 54 times.  Bryce is on course to be sacked 68 times this year.  Not that different.  However, watching Joe Burrow play in 2020 made it VERY VERY CLEAR he was the real deal.  Burrow elevated his team and was SPECIAL.  As you might expect of the first pick in the draft.  Barry Sanders never had a team around him, but he was GREAT.  Cam Newton elevated his team.  Archie Manning never played on a winning team, but you could see how great he was just by watching.

And Trevor Lawrence's rookie year?

12 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

At no point in the OP does he say he 100% believes fitt nailed the pick. He's saying it's too early to write him off. You're the one that comes into every one of these threads and removes all nuance from the discussion speaking in absolutes about the future of a rookie who hasn't even finished his first season.

You can be disappointed and still have hope he can turn it around when we get a competent offense in here. It is like a personal vendetta you have against Bryce and you want to be right at all costs so you can justify how miserable you are.

Just best to ignore whatever that guy says. If he's not Carolina-chuck then he's a close relative or at the very least, his next door neighbor

16 hours ago, Seltzer said:

You cannot throw deep if you don't have time and guys don't get open.  It's simple physics.

Doesn't matter if your name is Bryce Young, CJ Stroud, Cam Newton, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, or Tom Brady.

There should not be anything controversial or hard to understand about that.

The literal only thing the metrics show about Bryce is that he has been incredibly accurate when guys have been open.  

There is no other legitimate, football-based observation you can even make under this level of dysfunction.

He is playing behind the #31 ranked offensive line and the #32 ranked receivers.

I'm not trying to be mean, but so much of this discussion has no basis in reality.

All this theoretical nonsense about Stroud vs. Young is nothing more than hot-take nonsense at this point.

Would it be accurate to say Bryce is superior b/c he won the head-to-head matchup?  And looked markedly better?

Of course not, but so much of this other "analysis" is absolute nonsense either.

I genuinely question the mental acuity of people making these sweeping pronouncements after 10 games as if they have definitely answered anything.

I'm hoping we can actually start legitimately evaluating Bryce now that Reich is gone, hopefully we will have someone actually interested in implementing an offense catered to the players instead of whatever Reich's offensive abomination was.

There is literally nothing to take from the Reich Era other than it was a massive mistake.

And as mad as I am with Tepper's mismanagement of the team, he was right to rip this bandaid off.  Reich looked like he had never coached in his life.  He was obviously not ready to come back coaching.

Finding someone who can actually maximize BY9's ability is what we need.  Whatever this was offensively for the 1st 11 weeks, I don't know, but I just want to flush it and move on.

Are y'all really ready to give up on Bryce after 10 games under the absolute worse conditions I could imagine?  Because if so, please, and I mean this in all seriousness, find another team and QB you think is worthy of cheering for.

Go fanboy for CJ Stroud.  He has undoubtedly been very good as a rookie, but I know 2 things, and the film backs this up 10000%:  1) He has looked way worse under pressure than BY9 2) He faces far, far less pressure than BY9 and has an exponentially better supporting cast

CJ Stroud being successful doesn't change the fact Bryce can/will also be once this dysfunction isn't suffocating him. 

B/c I know damn well Bryce will produce when/if he provided with even the bare requisite around him.

This is the nadir for the Panthers franchise.  Now really is the time to depart, and no one will know.  In all seriousness, just now.

But shoot me now if this place is just going to be nonsensical BY9 bashing... I lived through that for 2.5 years with Cam from 2011- 1st half 2013, and that was with teams with actual talent like Smitty, Olsen, D-Will & J-Stew plus Luke and a badass front 7 on defense.

Winning is the ultimate deodorant, and we haven't done that in 6 years and counting.  That is the biggest issue, along with the meddling owner who is the one constant.

Blaming Bryce IMHO is the literal laziest thing a Panthers fan can do, when he is literally the least responsible for this cascade of ineptitude and failure that has defined this franchise since 2018.

 

Absolutely well said.

8 hours ago, rodeo said:

When it comes to football I have two preferences:

1a: Win

1b: Lose but with a lot of theatrics and hysterics.

So I'm happy either way. The only kind of football I hate is Reichball where we just lose and then go be quiet and respectful.

Exactly I'm so done with coaches that are stoic and look they have no fire in them after a s*** call. We need someone with some passion left for the game. Not these old worn out dinosaurs. Need someone to light a fire under someone's a**. I thought Duce Staley would be that for Reich but that was a flop. Rivera seemed pretty passionate behind closed doors but his sideline demeanor was always that of someone who didn't know what the fug was going on in the actual game. Rhule was meh and Reich was more of the same. We desperately need a changing of the guard and with Tepper I'm not sure that's going to happen but we'll see. He at least made the right decision to fire Reich 11 games in even though it would reflect poorly it showed he's somewhat willing to swallow his pride to do whatever it takes. He just hasn't made the right decisions unfortunately. 

18 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

 

18 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The very few remaining hope brigade holdouts are definitely the most entertaining part of the Huddle at this point.

Whats even more entertaining is you closet Texans fans thinking drafting Stroud #1 overall would have made any difference with where we're at right now. We'd still have the worst collection of talent on the offensive side of the ball in the entire NFL with a rookie QB and a clueless HC. But please, go on, continue to think Stroud would be the only reason Frank Reich would still be employed by the Panthers. Anymore jokes you got for us today?

1 hour ago, toldozer said:

He looks and sounds like he's 15 years old. You gonna tell me what to do? Nah I'm good. Stroud is a softer spoken guy too but when your play is lighting it up you command respect. When you can't Crack 185 yards passing and put more then 1 touchdown drive together in a game dude's aren't going to follow you 

And by no means are any of those "dudes" responsible for the 185 yards a game and the reason we can't score more than 1 touchdown, its ALL on the QB right? Coaching doesn't matter, scheme doesn't matter, personnel doesn't matter, getting open doesn't matter, blocking for more than half a second doesn't matter, being able to run the ball effectively doesn't matter, literally NONE of that matters only that the QB is effective no matter what else is going on around him. Got it, Thanks for clearing all of that up

14 hours ago, Dave Gettleman's Shorts said:

the loser mentality Cam spoke of and tried to get rid of when he was here. half the players are just collecting paychecks or are more concerned with ping pong game in the locker room

Part of the reason Thielen said he signed with us was because they had some sort of golfing simulator in the locker room lol

4 hours ago, PanthersPain said:

Ok guys correct me if I’m wrong but… Bryce was the consensus num 1 coming out of that draft. There is a reason why he came out as the first pick, and reports and news prior to the draft all pointed to that direction. He clearly had the best resume out of all college qbs at the time, and was places num 1 for his talents.

 

I’m not sure what most panthers fans are watching.. but it’s not hard to see Bryce as a talented qb. He legitimately has a lack of every single position to help him out… and he isn’t Cam he can’t just run every play when no one’s open! Someone correct me here… cus in my mind, the people who are putting the blame on our num1 pick aren’t looking at context correctly… or even watching the games!

Cam had the benefit of playing in a system that utilized his talents with the Chudz offense. He then spent the rest of his career overcoming Shula ball but yea. It's been clear since the preseason Reichs offensive vision didn't take advantage of what Young excelled at in college. Will be interesting to see who we choose next. I'm hoping it's Harbaugh personally but thats probably a long shot