MHS831

Just saw this--posted the exact same comments on another thread...100% CORRECT.

I get it--we are treating players like we are a farm team-stop drafting projects and raw players early-- You have 1 job

I get this--he is not where he needs to be yet, but the team is playing better, and some of that is based on improved play from Bryce. It has to be consistent, it has to improve, and it has to lead to wins and playoffs before I am satisfied. He is a game manager on good days right now. Did I feel confident when we got the ball vs. Philly with a chance to win? Nope--to me, the mark of a great QB is when their opponent takes the lead under 2 minutes in the game and everyone thinks, "They gave XXXX too much time."

I do not know of anyone calling Bryce a "Franchise QB," (not to say it was not said, I just did not see it) and I do not think the current Bryce is the answer. This is about potential and the performance of the team. I now watch the second half. In this draft, you have Ward and Sanders at QB, maybe Allar makes round 1 and maybe someone takes a chance on Milroe--I would not. After that, you have Ewers who is probably not going in round 1. Nussmeier has decided to stay in school. However, after that wave of QBs I see some potential if you have patience. I don't look at performance as much as others--I see system QBs in college who play in conferences that don't believe in defense and I see kids who have not yet put it all together, and some flying under the radar. The reason this group excites me is that there is a Purdy, Cousins, or Wilson in this group. I think we need to add one of these raw, undeveloped, or unrecognized gems to the roster and develop him as if he is to be the QB by 2027 if not sooner. I am assuming that we do not draft this QB on day 1, but we find him possibly sliding to round 3. Who are they? I know---some of you will look at his stats or performance this year and think "He sucks!" I can't help people who do not understand the concept of assessing tools and giving performance less weight. However, I will mention the situation in which each QB was asked to perform--and the things they overcame that are unique to their experience. 1. Ewers, Texas. If he somehow dropped to us at any time on day 2, I would strongly consider taking him. He has been a bit injury prone, but he has arm talent and has had to play well enough to keep a Manning on the pine. He has a quick release, amazing deep accuracy, and he has brought Texas into the national spotlight. Injuries are scary but in the past; if he can avoid them, he has a bright future. Still, with Bryce improving, I imagine we draft WR in round 1, DL or Edge in round 2..... 2. Beck, Georgia. Beck had tremendous expectations in 2024 and he failed to meet them. Most of his problems seem to be mental, however. He has a quick release and is deadly on long balls when he does not hesitate (mental). His mistakes were often when he was taken off the spot. He has the talent to be a good NFL player. Remember, the plan is to develop him for 2 years. 3. Rourke, Indiana. In round 3 or even later, Rourke is my favorite dark horse/sleeper candidate. He is 6' 5", 230 and also has a quick release. He is accurate on short, intermediate, and deep throws. So what is his problem? His concentration is broken with pressure and he fails to recover well when that happens. Not very illusive, with a quick release, our OL, and the 2.7 second rule that seems to have benefited Bryce, Rourke could be special. I think he is a good fit. 1.

Is performance at this point more important that improvement? That is the question I ask. Canales has had Bryce for less than a season, and there are positive results. Is the team competitive now? Have we proven that we can play with anyone? If not the improved play of Bryce, what can you attribute this turnaround towards? Better WRs? (not really, he lost Johnson, AT, Mingo, and TMJ--and XL has been decent, but not stellar). The OL? They were playing when we were getting blown out. The defense? Well, they are ranked 31st in the NFL. The Offense is ranked 30th, but that is due to the horrible start. So what is the difference? "Since Returning from His Benching, Bryce Young is completing 62% of his passes, has gone 55/88 for 521yrds, 4TDs, 3INTs, and has a 80.4 Passer Rating. This while playing 2/3 of the games with 2 Rookie Starting Receivers and a Rookie TE." While that is not Pro Bowl material, it is positive and hopeful. THAT WAS NOV 12 WHEN HE WAS TURNING THE CORNER--people noticed then--they are noticing now. The bottom line--you can't just look at his stats and feel great. You can't look at the record and feel that we are playoff bound. However, if he is improving, do you pull the plug? Do you not get excited about the changes in a positive direction? How many of us saw even this coming? If you didn't, don't pretend to know the future now.

Yeah. You can't be really good at every position, and Cade seems to be improving every week. I think his PFF grade is in the 60s--Let Raym and Cade compete--and focus on your top 4 weaknesses (IMO--WR, DT, Edge, ILB) Every team has a weak spot here and there. The challenge is hiding that weakness as best as possible. Playing between Lewis and Hunt is pretty hidden. Again, Cade has been improving each week. I am OK with him at C--not ideal, but he is OK.

It is about football--not Christmas....Drop (as in passes) deep (as a deep pass) pigskins (footballs) and (oil) making them slippery. It was a joke--play on words. Relax. Not meant to offend or be about Christmas.

Here is some low-hanging fruit for you all. Thought I would pile on. However, I am not pessimistic about XL. (I'm gonna regret this) Tracks 1. (Title Track) Season's Greetings y'all; was that the ball? 2. Drop Dem Deep Fried Pigskins in Oil 3. I Will Be Dropping By and Slants for Christmas 4. Better Not Cry, Better Not Pout; At least I Run a Good Route 5. I Rented a Tux But Missed the Christmas Ball 6. Butterfingers in My Stocking 7. Juggle Balls Rock 8. Spike the Punch because I ain't Spiking the Ball 9. O Come all Ye Footbawls 10. Frosty the No Hands

Part of me really likes what Steve is about and I get it---his dog eat dog attitude took him places, but it can get out of control at times....I never walked in his shoes, but he is a very complex person. I used to go to OTAs every year--and Steve practiced then like it was the Super Bowl...He is great with kids, felt the adults were trying to use his name for profit--and many were. He has shown regret for his actions, but when you have one gear, you cross some finish lines first and you make some road kill along the way. I guess his transition to the "real world" has been a reflective process.

He must have matured. We all grow up--well, I am working on it

Looks like he got injured. Gonna be out a while.

To me, mediocrity is worse than losing because you get stuck with mid-round draft picks. we need a few star players. I want to see us with a star ILB and defensive QB to run the team and call blitz audibles at the LOS--it is our tradition--Beason, Mills, Morgan, Luke. We need a Free Safety who can do the same in the defensive backfield--Minter comes to mind. We need a QB who is a true leader--Delhomme and Newton, for example--I worry that Bryce falls short in that area, but he is trying. We need a stud RB or two--and I think we have one and one who stays in the Blue Cross tent. We need a stud TE--Walls, Olsen. Sanders? Not yet. And we need a dominant edge. Peppers, Hardy, Rucker, CJ, for example. And we have never won without a decent to good OL. We have that now. We need 2 WRs who can get open and make big plays and move sticks. Two Alphas. We need one or two now. Have I given up on XL like some here? Nope. In relation to the other Rookies from the 2024 draft, he is where he should be, and I think he has more upside because he is so raw. We have a stud DT, RB, OL, and CB. In one offseason, I see us improving at Edge, WR, ILB, and DT. I would try to re-sign CB Mike Jackson. If Bryce continues to improve we could be competitive next year. I think that the reasonable play is to compete by 2025, playoffs by 2026.

Same thought.

Except Kasay, strangely enough.

I have a theory. For most of our time here, Marty was the GM. He was solid in the first round. He then, in the second round, would say, "We had a first round grade on him." Everette Brown was one--Clausen was another....I ask, "If they had a first round grade, why did he fall?" He said that about Clausen--KC and Minnesota did not have a QB during that draft and they passed on Clausen in the first round--and in the second. That should have been a red flag--what did they know that Hurney did not know? That was also the Armanti Edwards draft. So in round 2, if a player drops, find out why other teams are passing. It could be that they have other needs, but KC and Minn needed QBs and skipped on Clausen. This is AFTER MH spent the evening between rounds 1 and 2 trying to give the Rams the team's first rounder (the following year) and the second rounder that year to move up to take Clausen at 33. That is how you get into trouble--read the room.

I have said this before, but I watched Steve Smith bully the hell out of Dwayne Jarrrett at OTAs---and the coaches let him do it. Steve is a narcissistic munchkin--there were not any WRs who were drafted here who prospered after Smith was drafted-I recall him embarrassing Jimmy Clausen in public, punching 2 teammates, and I watched him bully at least 1 WR. He was not a good teammate-he sucked as a person, in my limited view. However, at 5'8" and 200 lbs, maybe that was necessary for him to be great.

Wasn't Mushin Muhammad a second rounder?

Very solid points. If you aren't in the market for a QB, and I don't think we are in round 1, the field is pretty level through about pick 20. Just depends on what you need. By the way, I probably would not insert backup OL while we have Bryce in the game--I want to see more of Plummer because his preseason game was solid--want to see more. Not a fan of holding onto Dalton. People on this board have been subtly critical of Mays at C moving forward. I am pleasantly surprised by his play there. At 25 and in a new position, he has done well. Most importantly, the psychology of losing out would carry over - to your point. What may help you in the draft hurts you in free agency. People need to step back when they can and see the big picture. I feel that we are turning the corner. I feel that Bryce is finally showing signs of getting it. I still say grab Indiana's Rourke in the third or so--

I think you have to--I have not been reading up on these people, but is Allar gaining ground? PFF (last week) rated Jalen Milroe the top overall QB. There will be one or two that do. I see it. Someone will rise because in that group of teams listed above, the Raiders, Giants, Browns, Jets, Titans--5 of the top 9, will be in the market. I really like the sleeper potential in this draft--and when teams start digging, QBs will fly up the board--(Crazy statement: Once thought to be a very weak draft could become one of the best in the NFL). What happened to Beck? Some say he has pro skills. Nussmeier has NFL talent. Quinn Ewers kept a Manning on the bench and led a winning team 2 years in a row--injury prone? Personally, I think Rourke would be a good fit here, with his quick release. He ended the college football season with the #1 passer rating. I think the analysts (internet GMs) are getting the QB position this season totally wrong. I see all of the QBs as developmental, but I see the potential. 1. Ward I have not seen enough, but the dual threat QB who is pretty accurate is not as common as one thinks. Giants or Raiders, but watch the Browns. 2. Sanders (He looks like a system QB to me--good athlete, throws a good ball--why can't I buy in? In the age of NIL, he is a college QB wearing a hand towel with a metalic gold "$" embroidered onto it. I do not want a person who measures himself and separates himself from his teammates that way. Sorry, but what is he going to be like if he is average and his second contract is due? Maybe I am wrong to think that way, but I do. 3. Ewers (Plays under pressure and is smart. 21. I like the way he won at Texas knowing that if he had a bad game there was a Manning behind him. Injuries are a concern) 4. Allar (I think he needs another year and will stay in school. He is not yet 21) 5. Rourke (from Canada. Maybe he would fit into the Carolina backfield, Aye? Highest rated passer in NCAA this season. 24 years old, however) 6. Nussmeire (mental discipline is his issue--takes too many unnecessary chances--skills are there) 7. Milroe--Eh. I see the tools.

On paper, you are right, but mathematically, the worst teams in the NFL win one in four at least half the time--I think we could win 3 down the stretch--or revert back to the old Panthers. I also think that we need to play Caleb Farley, Smith-Wade (we have been), Jaden Crumedy, and I might bring Andrew Raym and Plummer up from the PS to see how they do should the Panthers get a big lead or get blown out--I think we need to try to win, but there are moments when you can assess the roster for the offseason--I think we have not done a good job with that in the past. Moral victories are important, but so is knowing what you have on the roster entering free agency and the draft. Good post--makes me think about a different perspective--even if it is totally wrong and void of logic Nah, I see it.

CURRENT DRAFT ORDER 1. Raiders 2-11 (SOS .538) Remaining Schedule: Raiders have a chance to win 1 more game, maybe 2, but 1 is probably a reach with Ridder as the QB. Revenge game vs. Atlanta, Lowly Jacksonville, and struggling New Orleans--I am guessing they could win 1. Predicted finish 3-14. 2. Giants 2-11 (SOS .542) Remaining Schedule: If the Giants are going to find a win, it will probably not be until December 29 vs. Indy at home. I think they will lose out, however. Predicted finish: 2-15. 3. Patriots 3-10 (SOS .462) Remaining schedule: If the Patriots are going to win another game, it will be at home vs. Buffalo on January 5. Buffalo will likely be resting starters. I think the Pats will want a win and get it. Predicted finish 4-13. 4 Panthers 3-10 (SOS .484) Remaining Schedule: Carolina hosts the Cowturds (I just made that up) this week. Dallas has 1 win vs. 6 road losses this year, and the Panthers are playing better. All odds suggest the Cats win--I think it is a coin toss. I do not see a win down the home stretch, but Tampa and Atlanta are possible. Predicted finish: 4-13. 5. Jaguars 3-10 (SOS .489) Remaining schedule: Jags have the opportunity to win 4 of 4 down the stretch with their backup QB. I think the Jets beat them, but they will win vs. Tennessee and possibly Vegas and Indy. Predicted finish: 5-12 6. Titans 3-10 (SOS .511) Remaining Schedule: The Titans should have a decent chance of winning their remaining games; I give them 1 win down the stretch, however. They will beat Indy or Jags. Predicted finish: 4-13. 7. Jets 3-10 (SOS .516) Remaining Schedule: Jets travel to Jax to play Jags Sunday. I think they win it, lose the next three. Predicted Finish: 4-13. 8. Browns 3-10 (SOS .525) Remaining schedule: The tea leaves show no more wins for Cleveland. Predicted finish: 3-14. 9. Bears 4-9 (SOS .566) Remaining Schedule: Where is another win coming from? Predicted finish, 4-13. PREDICTED DRAFT ORDER USING CURRENT STRENGTHS OF SCHEDULE (SOS): 1. Giants 2-15 (.543) Primary Need: Quarterback. Gotta be Ward, doesn't it? 2. Cleveland 3-14 (.525) Primary Need: Quarterback or OT depending on their position on Watson--never have a better opportunity to draft a QB. They could go Hunter, and if Sanders is the only QB left, Daddy Sanders has been pushing for Vegas. Eli Manning to Chargers situation again? 3. Raiders 3-14 (.538) Quarterback--if not there, Hunter CB. 4. Patriots 4-13 (.462) Wide Receiver--this makes it interesting for Panthers--if they take TMc, what to do? 5. Panthers 4-13 (.484) Edge or Wide Receiver. 6. Titans 4-13 (.511) Wide Receiver or OT 7. Jets 4-13 (.516) Defensive Tackle 8. Bears 4-13 (.566) Offensive Tackle 9. Jaguars 5-12 (.489) Cornerback

Baker sucks in Cleveland, Carolina--but look good in LA and then Tampa Bay. It is the system--the team--more than people realize. Goff sucks in LA to a lesser degree and is probably headed to a Super Bowl in Detroit and is solid in Detroit. Rogers is a hall of famer in GB but in NY, he has been terrible. Geno Smith sucked in NY (Jets) and is doing well in Seattle. Russell Wilson is great in Seattle, Bad for the most part in Denver, and is better in Pittsburgh. D. Watson was good in Houston and is now bad in Cleveland. It is more system, play calling, surrounding talent, defense, etc. than people realize.

So Cousins is good in Minnesota, Darnold sucks. Cousins goes to Atlanta, he sucks. Darnold goes to Minnesota, and he is good.

I think it is a combination of both. He is a physical specimen, no doubt, but he is also rather innocent and perhaps mentally frail, in my guesstimate based on what I have seen from him. He is not polished. He is not confident. He played 5 years but saw the field 1, based on what I recall. That is why I did not want to draft him, but he is a Panther and I wish him the best. It gets in your head when you drop one ball--but he dropped 3 and lost the team the game. Man. You have to put it behind you, because if you don't, you will be behind the guy behind you.

There are way to many variables to statistically measure the play, and ultimately, wins matter and nothing else does. However, KC? Philly? Tampa? all close games vs playoff teams (probably) with a QB who was left for dead and asked to play without multiple combinations of his top 5 WRs who were on the roster at the beginning of the year. This ain't Disney. We could beat Dallas--how many would have said that week 3? We have a 34-year old white dude from Minnesota state who probably cant run a 4.8 today, an undrafted free agent from Holy Cross, a very raw WR with one season of college experience-and a wr best known for his special teams abilities. Our best TE is a fourth round rookie. During that time, we lost the #1 WR, the expected #2/3 WR (Mingo), and the slot to injury. Average is damn good right now---and when the defense gets Brown back and fills some holes, we could be better than average. Again, this aint Disney.