MHS831

I hope he causes a top WR to drop to us (Kevin White, Devante Parker)

Good question, BJ.  There are 2 things that could cause us to draft another position--(of course there are more, but this is how I see it):

 

1. If no T you mention above is on the board.  Over the past 2 years, the top 5 OTs are gone by the 19th pick of the first round.  It could be that the only tackles on the board are Fisher or Sambrailo.  They are not first rounders, IMO.

 

2. If a top DL or WR is on the board, we could decide to wait--all of the T have some asterisk by their names.  Too soft, a RT,  was abused at SR bowl, etc.

Ok, you win. What can I say, I just love my agendas

 

I respect your loyalty and wish I felt as convinced--I think Cam will continue to evolve and I see this as the year he gets the weapons and the protection. We are on the same side, even though we see it differently.

You're right the only way Cam can be great is by leading his team to a comeback behind more than 30 points. Never mind the fact he has consistently executed when it counted the most these past 2 seasons. And lets just ignore that hes made huge, visible strides in his "leadership" throughout his career. (he had to-even his daddy said so--but when I mentioned this 4 years ago, it was blasphemy--now your ilk are bragging about the maturation)  And just forget the fact that his teammates have shown that they'll run through a brick wall for him (i.e. Brandon Williams) What?  Um, Ok The same teammates you say suck, correct?

 

First off, I never said the 30-point thing, Never said the 20+-point thing--but if you have to fabricate and twist to argue against my very simple comments, go ahead. Knock yourself out. Your entire rant is based on those erroneous statements.    You and a few others try to find any scrap you can to exploit when I make an honest comment about my perception (and most of the nation's) of Cam. What I wrote about Cam was generally very positive--but you find the one aspect that was critical and melt down.  Why are you so sensitive about Cam?  He has improved and needs to improve more to become great. He is not a top 10 QB yet. 

 

 See the bold section--something you call fact.  Cam, Gettlemen, RR--all have talked about consistency issues and mechanics. But you call his play consistent over the past 2 years.  Are the statisticians also biased and against Cam?  Let me tell you something about "when it counts."  All 60 minutes.  Ask the defense.

 

My post was pretty positive about Cam, and, frankly, what I believe not only to be the truth, but to  obviously be the truth.  It does not mean that I hate Cam or think he sucks--I think you and some of the others who attack me every time I make any comments about Cam are really not interested in the truth; you seem to have another agenda.   Again, you are wrong if that is the case, but just ignore my posts as you seem to ignore reality in this matter.

Red is on my ignore list because he misinterprets direct statements, takes everything out of context, and can't debate without acting butt-hurt. There is no gray area for Red-he translates everything into a simple white./black. hot/cold, good./bad classification so he can process it.  He is angry and bitter, but i sense that life has not been kind to him, so I don't take it personally.  If he is tracking comments I made back to 2013, surely taking something out of context and not framing the point the way it was framed, then there is a bigger issue to worry about here.  So I ignore Red because I do not engage in discourse with people who cannot handle it.  Maybe you see how he tries to provoke in the response above.  Even when I have not responded to his ridiculous attempts to provoke for months, he is still at it.  It is sadly personal for him. 

Guess you didn't watch the bears game this year

 

It would have been 21 points had Brown not had a 79-yard punt return, but the Bears were actually ahead early in the game by 2 TDs. The Bears could not hold that lead against most of the league.  You found 1 example against a team in disarray-- not exactly an endorsement.  You could equally ask, "How did we fall behind that far against the Bears, a team that was terrible in 2014, surrendering 448 points on the year and winning all of 5 games?"  The knock on Cam is not my doing, and he is commonly-perceived as a player who gets down when the chips are down.  Finding an isolated case proves the blind squirrel theory, and nothing more.  Heck, Frank Reich won a game from 34 points back, and he was not a great QB. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I want Cam to be great too, but I see this more objectively.  I do not get mad at people for having a differing opinion.  EVERY expert in the country will tell you that he has shortcomings; the only place they are not acknowledged is here on this board.  Now, if Cam improves in these areas, he will be great.  The knock on Cam is that he is a front runner, has mechanical issues, and a few lesser concerns.   One is a perception that has been repeatedly addressed in the media by people who know more than you or me; the other is obvious to anyone who knows a little about football.

 

I want him great.  I want him to be the best ever.  he is not there yet. Cam and the front office have some work to do this offseason first. 

Cam is a special athlete and this is more than enough proof that his heart is in this more than his wallet.  I think he can be the greatest QB to ever play, but as impressive as his statistics and awards are, I have not seen the growth I would like to see, but he is still young. This could be due to any number of factors, and we better build around him this spring so we can rally around him this fall.

 

The same drive that motivates Cam can be his worst enemy.  Yes, he has won championships and yes, he was rookie of the year and went to a pro bowl as a rookie.  Up to that point, everything was easy for Cam in a sense.  He needed some adversity to help round him as a player.  Now, as you mention, he has battled adversity as an NFL QB, perhaps for the first time.  Injuries, turnover, etc.  I will say that the 2 games he sat on the sideline this year might have been the best thing for him because he could actually watch a game he was not in. 

 

I want to see him lead when the team is down by 14.  I want to see him fix his mechanical issues.  When I mention these things, I tend to get blasted.  What do you think is keeping him from being a top 3 QB in this league?  Is Peyton Manning a better athlete with a stronger arm than Cam?  Is Brady?  Heck no.  Trust me when I say that Cam needs to see the game from the eyes of the teammates who are counting on him to lead them.  He needs to trust his pocket (maybe this will change) enough to step into throws.  He needs to be consistent and not ride that emotional roller coaster.  It is OK to be passionate, but the next play is the next play.

 

That is how Cam becomes as great as he wants to be.  Argue that he is the greatest QB in the world and all the problems fall on the OL, WRs, and OC if you want, and you will be partially right, but every great QB had/has similar problems.  Cam is almost there, but not quite.  I think he is given the tools to turn the corner this year.  I think, if Cam works on his mechanics during the offseason, the Panthers are a Super Bowl team--great defense, great QB, great OL---they have all the parts. 

Whoever gets to ride around with him on the golf cart.

 

When I saw this situation, it was Mike Minter in the cart at an OTA.  Minter was one of the all time class acts.

Coaches would have more say than players, which is why I really questioned Voth on this one.

Always appreciated, Jeremy.

As much as I wanted to complain about the extremely shallow talent pool here, I must admit you found some good ones. 

 

Inimicus

L-TownCat

RoaringRiot

Monsta

Ivan the Awesome

Lola

Arsen

 

In five years, Lola will be queen of the Huddle and will have complete rule over everyone here through a new software called "Simpleton's mind control software."  We never saw it coming.

Well maybe for Panthers fans. It's just too advanced for them. They can't take it.

 

I see the Falcants sent their best to taunt us. Their 007---Their Jabba--their Iraqi Republican Guard. 

I will ban WOW as my first order of business.

 

(just kidding, WOW--not interested in the job)

I don't have anything to add, but I had to respond to a thread with Doppelganger in the title, but that's just me.
 

That puts him at least on the same level as David Newton.

 

I don't read or watch ESPN more than I have to, so I will take your word on Newton.  I think Brett's article is a bit misleading because it does not seem to take into account money that will be saved by extending a few players and cutting a few more.  In fact, he doesn't seem  to have any idea about cap space, so he quotes outside sources.  I find it really disturbing when a Charlotte-area Panther reporter quotes outside sources (See Person, Joe).  Heck, the title of the piece is misleading,  I call it a piece because that it was this is.

 

However, it is the off season, and we have an obligation to share anything written about the Panthers so we can decide for ourselves (individually) how good or relevant it is.  So this is in no way a criticism of SCP for posting.  It is interesting to know what some of the reporter's opinions are.

As I read this article, one thing comes to mind, (aside from the fact that he references Offensive Tackles when he probably meant to say Defensive Tackles)--he has NO inside information. No unique slant, no scoop.   He pretty much looked at a free agent list and grabbed his computer to fill up some space because the man has to eat. 

Seeing as Dave Gettleman does crazy stuff like think about the future beyond the upcoming season, I wouldn't expect him to go out and instantly max out our cap.

 

I think you are exactly right, but I also think $ 15 million mentioned is a bit conservative.  He can save $10 million by extending Davis a couple years and cutting a few players alone. 

 

I think he is down to the point where he can restructure without too much risk.  Kalil might get an extension, Davis spreads out the hit in 2015, CJ's contract is ridiculous, etc.  but we can't do much with it as it stands.

 

I will always hate Marty Hurney.

Just read this.  Everyone on the first page or two is acting as if a dismissal means innocent of wrongdoing. The NFL is a business, and he tarnished the shield. They are not interested in his purchased justice   (It suggests that he used our money to pay her to get lost.)  He is still under NFL's microscope.

You forgot the phrase "from the Dolphins".

 

I was working all day and not on my computer.  I am trying to catch up.

Translation?

 

6 years, $82m ($49m guaranteed).

It depends on what you define as "the wrong way."

Am I endorsing cheating? No, this isnt what I'm suggesting.

But if you think relegating yourself to constructing a team built out of only glorious knights who have never fallen down is somehow the "right" way, then lol at you and everyone else who proudly flies the "LOSING WITH DIGNITY" banner.

Here in Pantherland, we punish players who taint "the image" whether theyre guilty or not.

 

I am not sure that you are drawing a line between what you call unethical-- would not do, and what you would do.  I think you are talking about players with character concerns.  Here is what seems to be missed.  There are more losing teams with questionable players than winners.  If you only look at the rosters of teams that win and find an isolated example here and there and feel that supports the recruitment of unethical players, I can show you 10 more rosters that prove otherwise.  I bet the Browns felt like they were stealing when they drafted Manziel and Gordon. 

 

I don't think anyone is looking to wave a "Losing with Dignity" banner, but we do not want to cheer for thugs, cheats,and criminals either.  There are children who aspire to be like these pros.  They buy their jerseys and pretend to be them on the playground.  That is the big picture.  But here is a news flash--you can win with people like Thomas Davis, Luke Kuechly, Ryan Kalil, Greg Olsen, Philly Brown, Trai Turner, Star Lotulelei, KK Short, Tres Boston, Bene Benwikere, CJ Johnson, and Colin Jones.  And there are some safe bets, people who were just growing up without hurting anyone, people like Cam Newton.  You can win with class. In fact, most successful teams are successful because the high character keeps the low character in check.  Why bring a cancer into the fold? Innocent or not, Hardy has a reputation of partying with assault rifles and crack hoes.  That is not the kind of players I would support, I don't care if they won.  But you assume you need thugs and criminals to win.  I don't.

doing it the right way has netted the Panthers 0 championships and the Patriots, in contrast, 4.

 

Are you suggesting doing it the wrong way?

You've left out the NFLPA and the CBA which have some bearing as well. And what happens when a spiteful employee or a disenfranchised business competitor decides to make an anonymous phone call accusing you of taking indecent liberties with junior employees or your neighbor's kid? You getting fired based on that accusation? After all, it is just an accusation, but it'll still make the papers and your life is ruined. 

 

 

I am in education, so I was coming from that perspective.  Most of the time, it is the accusation that matters, more than the legal aspect.  I see that in the NFL too.

The operative word is missing in your statement.... "accused"

 

 

I see your point, but I think people are confusing the NFL decision-making bodies with a court of law.  "Accused" still makes the newspapers, twitter, TMZ, and tarnishes the brand.  I am pretty sure that teams and the NFL know what happened before they make decisions.  Did AP have a history of child abuse and clear evidence that he beat his child?  Yes. Did Rice ever deny hitting his woman?  No.  Was Hardy with a woman on crack or meth or something, and was there physical conflict? 

 

Basically, if you are a highly-visible employee and your name gets caught up in controversy, it had better be a complete case of mistaken identity.   If you have to make comments like, "She was high on crack but I wasn't" or "The multiple assault rifles were on the bed but the clips were empty..."  you have damaged the reputation of your company by association and life style.  you can live that way, but if and when it becomes public and damages the company you work for, expect consequences.

 

If I am running the NFL, I am going to find out if careless decisions were made that hurt the NFL.  If so, you will be dealing with the commish.

Oh right. Why should a guy like Ray Rice suffer any consequences just because he smacked a b--ch around, right?

I mean, this is football we're talking about

 

Correct.  The new NFL--win at all costs.  Beat your women, beat your children, beat the opponent.  Hang a banner.  That is what true fans want to see.