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top dawg

Stop with the tank for Trevor Bull(ish)!

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16 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I can't definitely say that Lawrence would've been picked over Burrow. 

I think it'd be closer than many think but Lawrence still would've been the pick. 2 full seasons of looking amazing vs. 1 season would be the deciding factor.

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1 minute ago, nctarheelreincarnated said:

It's not debatable from a stats standpoint. JB had the greatest individual season in CFB history. 

I guess,  Burrow was tremendous, dont get me wrong - but Cam had a pretty incredible senior season at Auburn.  30 passing TDs and 20 rushing TDs in the same season is wild.

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2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

All I'll say about Lawrence is that Clemson has really only needed him to step up and carry them one time and that was the worst game of his life.  He's a terrific college QB, but Joe Burrow was way better last year than he has been so far and that's not a knock. Joe Burrow may have had the best college football season ever last year.

That's my biggest knock on Lawrence. If you go back to someone like Watson, it was always him that elevated his play in critical times for Clemson. I don't know that I could say that with Lawrence. 

That said, Clemson was also not the completely dominant force they were while Lawrence has been there. Watson probably had a lot more opportunities to have those moments than Clemson, since they are largely beating the dogshit out of their opponents each week. 

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1 minute ago, t96 said:

I think it'd be closer than many think but Lawrence still would've been the pick. 2 full seasons of looking amazing vs. 1 season would be the deciding factor.

Plus he is immensely more physically gifted than Burrow. The only real advantage Burrow would have(IMO) is that Burrow appears to be a pretty fierce competitor. So, I'd probably give the intangible edge to Burrow. Truthfully, that would be about the only edge I would give him. 

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1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

That's my biggest knock on Lawrence. If you go back to someone like Watson, it was always him that elevated his play in critical times for Clemson. I don't know that I could say that with Lawrence. 

That said, Clemson was also not the completely dominant force they were while Lawrence has been there. Watson probably had a lot more opportunities to have those moments than Clemson, since they are largely beating the dogshit out of their opponents each week. 

It's one reason why it's so hard to evaluate QBs at the elite programs. Honestly, Clemson and Ohio State and Alabama, etc. backups could probably beat the vast majority of teams.

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5 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Wilson was top 75!

In fairness, that was also during the time that the league had the mindset that you couldn't succeed as a starting QB in the NFL if you were less than 6-1. That changed dramatically after Russell's success and these smaller QB's have gone far, far higher than they would have 10-15 years ago. 

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1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

Plus he is immensely more physically gifted than Burrow. The only real advantage Burrow would have(IMO) is that Burrow appears to be a pretty fierce competitor. So, I'd probably give the intangible edge to Burrow. Truthfully, that would be about the only edge I would give him. 

He's more gifted in the legs, but Burrow's ability to throw on the move is special. Trevor is pretty good at it due, but Burrow showed some Mahomes/Wilson type ability to deliver passes into small windows from the worst of positions.

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Just now, kungfoodude said:

In fairness, that was also during the time that the league had the mindset that you couldn't succeed as a starting QB in the NFL if you were less than 6-1. That changed dramatically after Russell's success and these smaller QB's have gone far, far higher than they would have 10-15 years ago. 

Yep, no way Kyler Murray goes #1 overall back during that mindset.

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5 minutes ago, joemac said:

I guess,  Burrow was tremendous, dont get me wrong - but Cam had a pretty incredible senior season at Auburn.  30 passing TDs and 20 rushing TDs in the same season is wild.

Burrow still had more total TD's than Cam. And yeah, you're right. Cam and Kyler Murray both had incredible seasons as well. 

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Just now, kungfoodude said:

In fairness, that was also during the time that the league had the mindset that you couldn't succeed as a starting QB in the NFL if you were less than 6-1. That changed dramatically after Russell's success and these smaller QB's have gone far, far higher than they would have 10-15 years ago. 

I agree! The NFL is evolving!

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1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yep, no way Kyler Murray goes #1 overall back during that mindset.

I dunno. If Kliff is the coach, he probably still picks Kyler. Dude has been in love with Kyler since he saw him in HS. 

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1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It's one reason why it's so hard to evaluate QBs at the elite programs. Honestly, Clemson and Ohio State and Alabama, etc. backups could probably beat the vast majority of teams.

Correct. Not to mention those programs have not produced many successful NFL QB's historically. Clemson has had some decent journeyman QB's and now a bonafide star in Watson. Ohio State has literally never produced a successful NFL QB in the NFL era. And the biggest success from Alabama in the last 50 years was AJ McCarron.

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3 minutes ago, nctarheelreincarnated said:

I dunno. If Kliff is the coach, he probably still picks Kyler. Dude has been in love with Kyler since he saw him in HS. 

Kliff wouldn't have been the coach back then. He would've been dismissed as a college gimmick offense coach who couldn't translate. Well, hell... I guess you're hoping what he did at the college level doesn't exactly translate anyway since it got him fired from a second tier program to begin with.

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1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

Correct. Not to mention those programs have not produced many successful NFL QB's historically. Clemson has had some decent journeyman QB's and now a bonafide star in Watson. Ohio State has literally never produced a successful NFL QB in the NFL era. And the biggest success from Alabama in the last 50 years was AJ McCarron.

You're not wrong.

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4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

He's more gifted in the legs, but Burrow's ability to throw on the move is special. Trevor is pretty good at it due, but Burrow showed some Mahomes/Wilson type ability to deliver passes into small windows from the worst of positions.

He's more gifted in every aspect of actual football, IMO. I doubt his ability to be the dog that Burrow is but the gulf in their physical skill is quite large, IMO. I have seen plenty of Lawrence's elite ball placement from his freshman year onward. That was the first thing that stood out to me, quite honestly.

I'm also not a huge Burrow fan, so we will see how that take ages.

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