Rags

Part of the reason is right. The Chiefs had Alex Smith for 3 years before that, and even played out the first year as the starter with Mahomes. All 4 years Alex Smith was the starter, The Chiefs were in the playoffs. Sam Darnold was drafted with the tools to be elite, Zach Wilsion had all the tools and measurables to be elite. I know how good Richardson can be, I think he's comparable to Terelle Pyror coming out of college, and Pyror had some QB success in the NFL, and its fair to say he'd have more now with how offenses are schemed up now. i have no qualms with if he's our guy. I'm actually lookin like a guy who thinks he can play sooner rather than later in our offense. That all said, I don't think it's the only path, and i also have quelled a lot of my concerns about the cons of taking Richardson. Either way I'd like to pay Sam -- he knows our players and at worst he's a bridge guy, and going in with a rookie and Corral isn't the best thing. But I also know there's dozens of other ways to add to the QB room, so even if Sam balls out to close the season and we don't retain him, I won't be too chaffed. Like I told linville, either way I don't see us not sucking next year. And i don't think it'd hurt to roll the dice on Sam. He stinks it up it's not like it really changes my valuation of the team.

It's real cute how you don't even have the decency to @ with your shade lmao. I have give you nothing but reasons for my thinking and how we should attack and you just spew poo you find on a poster.

No I won't be surprised if we suck next season. I think a combination of things have to be right to not suck and I'm not convinced we're gonna hit those things, both from an orginzational level and a players and execution level. One of these things, believe it or not is drafting Richardson and getting some offensive skill postion help through trades or FA (please god let us get Jeudy) and draft a solid HB in this years draft (it's a deep draft at HB, like actually deep not ppl just saying poo deep) and then best case, Richardsons natural gifts lets us play our ball control style of offense and let our defense play with a lead and aggressive so our weaknesses on defense aren't as apparent, and even then I think that'd be help with out division still being mostly poo rn. I just don't think that's the only way, and I think relying on Darnold has as many pros and cons for the immidate future (next 1-3 years) as drafting Richardson. But either way i don't think we won't not suck next year, realistically. We're the Panthers.

Yes...but why does the swinging need to be this year? Note i'm not saying it shouldn't. I like Richardson, he fits our run mindset that I think we can lower his floor at least a bit, and i do like his ceiling, but why does it need to be this year? If the bar for QB play rn in the NFC are the likes of Jared Goff, Kirk Cousins and Dak Prescott, why do we need to massively out class that rn? Whos to say we can't build a system to have our own Kirk Cousins or Dak Prescott? Like those are all great, cool and motivational things you're saying, but building a team and preparing to win is more than just Getting that guy. It's been working very poorly because our offense has been bad for 2 1/2 seasons. But why has it been bad? Teddy gave us consistent ball movement and great pocket presence to mask how truly poo our o-line was, but then we added Sam Darnold -- a guy who panicked under pressure -- and then put him behind a bad o-line. Then earlier this year we had P.J. Walker and Baker Mayfield as our QBs, but even then P.J. gave us at least an outline of how to be an offense. And now why is it working? Oline is filled out from left to right, pass protection isn't elite but its MILES ahead of the turnstiles they were for the better part of a decade (An issue on this team masked by Cam Newton and CMC). Darnold has shown progress in his development, he takes sacks knows how to go through his progression a little better, also taking what the defense gives him more, and honestly our coaching has improved. Not great but better than Rhule. Yes, we'll have to start paying these guys...but who else are we paying right now? And thats sure as fug not gonna change if we draft a QB. This one part of the reason people, or at least me, don't mind betting on Darnold next year -- showing progress and at a price where we might be able to lock him up at a decent rate. There's no such thing as a perfect roster, but you don't get better by adding a QB who has a high bust rate. A legit QB can make a lot of coaching staffs look better, sure. But that's not the only order these things effect one another. This is to say i'm not content with this team, but I don't think the only way we can be better than this season is swinging for the fences.

Disagree there. We're have one good WR, and he's not an elite guy. All the QBs rn that have success have a least one elite receiving threat, with guys like Herbert and Burrow (who I love, I think they're both worht of being called "elite" where QB play is rn across the league), and all offenses that are good have at least one elite playmaker that's good. We have neither, not saying a great QB can't elevate what we have, but that QB would have to be really good. Our pass rush is one player, and even then he's got a limited repertoire of power move, and is more reliant on speed moves which is easier to handle 1-on-1 unless you have elite bend, so unfortunately his skill set doesn't open up more for the Dline. There's a reason we blitz a lot, and that opens up Everyone but Horn and sometimes Djax and Woods is really suspect in coverage. And Djax has an achilles injury. Our LBs are bad in coverage, and our one great LB is really really bad in space. The combonation of these things makes us really suspectable to tempo changes -- our defense is at its worse when it has to react instead of predict -- and thats why sometimes start going on runs against us. Redzone offense has been abysmal. We once had Cam Newton, Mike Tolbert, Johnathan Stewart and Greg Olsen all on the same offense. We have none of that now and have done nothing to replace it really. And finally our run game! Our star player is in a contract year. Now I do think he needs us as much as we need him, but if he leaves this is a different offense, and while Foreman only has a couple of talents, he does them very well. We're either gonna have to pay him -- which takes up cap space to fill up other holes, or find a replacement to maintain this level of play. it's really not as simple as just get a QB, especially since to be a contender next year we'd need a rly good QB.

Sure! But why does it have to be this year when we have a team winning with middling QB play? Like if it's Stroud or god I keep forgetting his name but I'm too lazy to look it up from Alabama, sure it's like a no brainer, but Richardson or Levis? And honestly if we're a 6 win team in most other years and situations I'd agree with you, but I can't stress enough how poorly structured the rest of the NFC is. And again, we're only gonna have more holes if those QBs miss.

So QB purgatory. God you're whiney.

Exactly! It's a team sport! Tom Brady went to the Bucs because they were a good team marred by terrible QB play and mid tier coaching. Like the QB play cost them games. Adding a good QB makes them a playoff team, but adding Brady of all people made them a contender. Same with the Rams, already a good team, but with their focal point of their offense going down (Gurley) they needed more because with just Goff all they were was a playoff team. Stafford gave them verticality and veteran QB play. And then they still added pass rush because Stafford's play was...inconsistent at times. There's only one position on the field that can singlehandedly alter the trajectory of your franchise, but that's not the only way to have a good season. The addition of Tom Brady and Matthew Stafford to those teams put them over the edge, but that's not alone why they're champs.

Good news so you can check out next season: We are likely going to be in "QB purgatory" next season.

Yes, and all the bad QBs also had serious question marks coming out and they're bad. The point being is it's hard to find a Mahomes, Allen and Herbert. You have to go through loads of Mariotas, Tannehill, Goffs and those are top 10 picks that at least ended up having a decent carrer. After that you get into the Manuels, the Weedens, the Ponders of the NFL. Hell i seriously believe that there's at least 26 other franchises Allen lands on he's a bust. I'm not saying "You keep swinging" is wrong, but when a team has momentum, and you think that momentum is sustainable (in our case a shitty division and NFC in general) keep swinging can have damning effects on a team. We're not always gonna have this defense cheap. What talent we do have on offense is getting older. Soon what aren't holes will be holes again. Having a guy is important, but you brought up TLaw, but look at how awful he looked last year and not the trajectory he's on now -- and i don't even think Pederson's that great btw -- but it's night and day. Situation matters -- supporting cast to coaching. Add to that, look at Kyler and look and why DHop wanted out of Houston.

So you're telling me that without Aarond Donald, who yes was on the team, Cooper Kupp, Jalen Ramsey, Von Miller (who they also got after getting Stafford) was moot. And the only thing noted offensive genius Sean McVay, who has a snapshot memory of football plays needed was Stafford? The same Stafford who couldn't win a playoff game, let alone a SB when throwing to fugin Megatron? ok. just, lol. ok. The Bucs were not winning, but Brady doesn't go to that team if they don't have Mike Evans, Chris Godwin and that defense that was top hlaf in the league the past two years. They had a team. The Bills go 9-7 because -- McVay is good and built a team. The offense Josh Allen inherited was the one Tyrod Taylor was running the year before, which fit his playstyle. They also continued to add to that defense, then went out and got Diggs. i would not mind this path if it worked out for Richardson, its what I hope, but Richardson is way worse of a passer than Allen coming out and situations like Allen -- completely reworking your mechanics and it working game time -- are rare.

No believe it or not my standard is still "Win a super bowl" I just don't think throwing poo at all wall and going "Hurr durr, this'll work" is the answer, nor do I think tanking is a realistic expectation in the immediate future. So it's either absolutely limbo in mediocrity or at least formulate a plan with what we have. I do believe that yes, eventually, we're going to need a QB that takes us over the top, but I don't think you can convince me that Richardson or Levis ceiling is substantially high enough to make up for how low their floor is. Adding talent to this offense should be the objective, if Sam sucks so be it but it's better than Richardson sucking and we having nothing to show for it.

3-1 under Sam with a functional passing game. We're the best team in our shitty division and look to be in abt as good as position for "The future" as the Falcons right now, so it looks to be sustainable for a bit longer. The NFC as a whole looks pretty weak to the run game, with only the Eagles and 49ers having elite run defenses.

Todd Gurley had been there for years, McVay has not. McVay was handed Gurley and and Goff, took them to a superbowl. You mention me ignoring things, but then ignored that fact that the Rams replaced one OMVP with another in Cooper Kupp. And thats not mentioning the additions on defense. Or how OBJ > DJax. In lieu of the draft, they kept adding proven talents on top of what they had already! That's how they won! You also keep ignoring the fact -- my literal second line that no one is saying we win a SB with Darnold. At least not me. You keep saying you're "for the future" -- the build on how we're winning now. That's how you get better in the future. The Chiefs did it. The Bills did it. The Bucs did it. The Titans are literally doing it, right now (I rly expect them to trade up from one of the QBs, be surprised if they don't). They won first, then got QBs.

Band-aid how when we're winning? This isn't Madden even against bad teams its a fight to win. We're winning right now and you refuse to accept it as viable, dismissing how we win. I've given you teams that are running the ball Right Now at this very moment, and even conceded that if we go QB, I'd like to go Richardson but you refuse to accept the fact that this is who we are this is our future. It's not a band-aid if its working, and that also doesn't mean it can't improve. Mahomes is still great right now without Kelce and Hill, but when I asked you that question earlier that was in the context of when he first starts. The reason the Chiefs move on from Alex Smith isn't because he's bad -- it's because his weakness goes against the gameplan. He didn't have the zip to attack tight windows or coverages in zone, nor the improv skills to have it break down. Mahomes had both, plus the added element of a cannon for an arm. That system is what makes the legacy of Mahomes, unless you mean to tell me you think year 2 Mahomes is an MVP and then taking them to the SB on the Bears with that offense.

Because the conversation wasn't with you. You answered a question out of context that I was having with Linville. The context of when I first asked that question was established earlier, where we had discussed the Chiefs and their building.

Literally not the point of my question, there was context behind that question. This question was wholly acknowledging the fact that the reason Mahomes had success is because he was implanted in the system Alex Smith helped build.

@LinvilleGorge Loving how when cornered all you can say is "Can't win a SB with Sam Darnold", like anyone in this fugin' thread was saying that. All we're saying is we want to keep winning, because there's success in winning. Why go against what works instead of what might work? And then there's not any arguments or reasoning behind it! just "He was bad before so he'll always be bad." and something abt training wheels because where running a system that attacks short and deep and focuses on running. You'd think you'd be happy waiting for next years draft class, we could get Maye! Definitely be better than golden boy Howell. Though I don't know if he can throw the ball as far as Zach Wilson, what a gem.

Bro we're not winning a SB period next season stop capping. You never answered my question -- Is Mahomes good without Kelce and Hill, and are Kelce and Hill that good without Smith and Reid?

Exactly! Which is why the goal is "Get to the playoffs". You don't think it's possible in the realm of infinite possibilities that is the NFL to get a -- not as statistically prolific -- 18' Wentz/Bortles season out of Darnold? The season where he had a great run game, elite o-line and great WRs? Draft someone Robinson out of Texas (yes I know haha HB in the first round but humor me) and use assets to get someone like DHop or Jeudy who likely hit the trade market? Live with the mistakes and trust your defense? It's risky but with how absolutely tepid the NFC is right now, who cares what happens in 24 with their adjustments, boom or bust league. Now that's. Incredibly unlikely. But possible, especially the Bortles part. A lot would need to go right, and honestly I'm still hoping we improve the coaching staff more than anything. But the point being NFL is boom or bust -- but you still have to take advantage of it in the moment. We can't just hope things align like how we'd plan them.

Cool I've been lookin for a post to piggyback off of my thoughts abt Darnold and this is as good as any. Darnold is who he is. And when people normally say that, it's typically negative. He panics under pressure, he then makes dumb decisions under pressure, his processing speed is slow, and his accuracy is wonky. What Mcadoo has done good here is realizing Darnold is who he is, but in a positive light. The Steelers game, funnily enough is the reason why I'm encouraged by Darnold going into 2023. Not poo went right around him, but he still found ways to thrive while also not making any mistakes -- even when pressured! He either stepped up and made an on time throw, or he reset and took the sack! That's a big step forward! We know what Sam can do when things go right, we've known for two years. He makes 'Wow' throws, hell he made a few yesterday. Nobody in their right mind should say "Sam's gonna be elite.", we're still unsure how much we can truly put on his plate, if he's really made his current habits permanent, and how well his decision making holds up when adjustments get faster and faster. But if Ryan Tannehill and Marcus Mariota can still have starting jobs going into week 1 of the 2022 season, in a year when Jared Goff on the fugin Lions and Geno Smith are having great years, there's literally no reason not to feel okay with going in with Sam and Matt and building up your areas of strength as a team. If he meets the means, cool. If he acoels, great! And if he stinks it up then poo happens.

And we're not going to compete for SBs unless we get to the playoffs. Your mindset is incredibly boom or bust, and even if you get what you want you have PLENTY of cases like Murray and Texans Watson to show it's not that simple as just get your QB.

Because we see where we're at as a team, right now in the year 2022 in respect to the NFL. A team winning with Sam freaking Darnold. Yes, there is still improvments, and we're more than likely gonna get clapped in the playoffs (Cowboys run D is sus as hell tho, and Sam has show good against the defense even before the ints started), but there's a sustianable blueprint here. Improvements need to be made at QB and if we get a top tier QB from this draft? Aces! But also we know that there's more consequences to "Just start swinging who cares if you miss" to this team in the year 2022 and the immediate team in 2023, a team that can start building success if they build right. Nobody is saying Sam is the future past it, but what he's shown he should be the 2023 starter.

AND adding Jalen Ramsey and Von Miller. AND replacing Gurely w/ Cooper Kupp. And again, that team lost because they lost their identity. Regardless of position, that's tough. If Gurley doesn't have arthritis that's a different game, that's a different Rams team that STILL ended up playing that game close. If McCourty doesn't make an elite deflection the Rams seriously might win that game. We're not in a position where we really can be anything else but a team trying to figure out their answer at QB. There's no easy answer. There's no easy bake Mahomes, Rodgers, Allen or Brady. Even Stroud or that Alabama kid i'm blanking on aren't guarantees, just safer bets. Zach Wilson went #2 overall and he has worse processing speed in college than Darnold ever has. All we can do is look at ways to replicate our success, and ways to suport it and make it stronger. Do you think Mahomes is as good as he is without Kelce? Without Hill? And do you think THEY'RE as good as they are without Smith, Reid and their success?

Yes, I did. "second they could." is the key here. They didn't rush. They didn't try to fit a square peg in a round hole. They built around Alex Smith then put Mahomes in that system, now they're building around Mahomes.