CRA

well, I know Rhule was all over it when he was here. Frank doesn't seem like the type to give 2 poos about it. Somewhere around Rhule coming the young lady that had lead it through it's peak quit because she was having children. She was good enough it made the news cycle. It might of been before Rhule. Can't remember.

gotcha. I mean, unless there is something there not seen....I don't think the conservatorship was about them trying to enrich themselves. Sounds like they had f you money. Doing it so he could go to Ole Miss? that part is just going to sit weird. I would think once that became an area of some concern. The proper thing would have been to of steered Oher elsewhere. Because that's the part that looks the worse. Not them making money but the look of them wanting to help their college football team. And traditionally, that what big f you booster folks play with. and I could see Oher finding out he wasn't legally adopted after thinking he was.....and reacting poorly. If he went his whole adult life believing it.

they were once the best in the pro game.

didn't Oher turn 18 during his senior year of HS? Could they have legally adopted him? That probably is a long process with complicated birth parents in a tiny window. I mean, I would assume wanting him to be "family" didn't happen immediately during his senior year. The he wasn't adopted thing..... I could get totally see a family using that language even if it wasn't technically true. And it not being a sinister deception. Because who would want to say, this is Micheal he sort of is family. We have a conservatorship to help him out and protect him. Which he frankly probably needed. You just call him your adopted son. I could imagine well intended or bad intended thoughts knowing so little. You could basically tell me to paint them sinister or good and I could at this stage knowing so little. anyway, sounds like the best decision would have been to say no to a movie. For Oher. For that family.

OL vs the Giants blitz - Frank already being a little preemptive there on that issue. getting the ball to Mingo

Well, Fox really spreads across 2 eras of modern NFL football. Goes to why I said my preference in today’s NFL is an Offensive HC. The league today and the league in 2002 are different games. Fox was good coach here. Not great. Again, a lot of this word usage and people using their own definitions/meanings. Frank is the step in the right direction. League is offense. The league itself doesn’t want what Fox wanted on the field. Rivera is mixed in that too.

Ron’s history is Cam’s career/success in terms of investing a team around an #1 overall pick. And that experiment went better than most do. Sorry, I don’t answer in the absolutes demanded. If you want a defensive HC….Ron would be a good one. Should you want one? Valid question. Same with investing in a player like Cam. which again, it’s easier to do worse than Ron than better. NFL history is the proof. Same was true with Fox. We actually got lucky stacking two back to back. I got no problem with you wanting better and more. But the math is the math in terms of how easy that is to do better. I’ve long said I wanted an offensive HC given the league is what it is. And Cam type QB isn’t the textbook path to find success. Especially consistent success.

Simplistic answer: I trust Ron as much as I would any defensive HC. Ron would hire someone to develop Bryce. And based on his history, can only assume he would push for a creation that played to the QBs strengths. Which is basically what you would want from a defensive HC. Now do you want a defensive HC to in charge of a team in today's NFL? Probably not. And Cam Newton isn't the type player you ideally would even want in today's NFL. The league is basically designed for Tom Brady created players. But if you are going to draft Cam Newton.......you don't try to mold him into what the league is essentially designed for. You take the freak anomaly and exploit that. Which is what Ron did with team. And when Bill Belichick got Cam he did it to an even more absurd degree. But that's not the ideal path given the rules and set up. And most coaches aren't going to be want to invest in and have to go that route.

lol. You all over the map. I said, Cam Newton non 2015 seasons where was record breaking, making Pro Bowls, winning and going to the playoffs weren't decent/mediocre years. You called those mediocre/decent years. Now you are claiming going 6-10 with Norv with a 1-9 finish (worst stretch W/L stretch of Cam's career) after teams saw the dink and dunk scheme.....was proof of being "special"? Norv was the start of CMC obsessed offense. Now, what would have Norv done with a "healthy" Cam? Who knows. He never had him. That 2016 injury did him in and no longer could go downfield in the manner he did before his shoulder went. If you didn't want to draft Cam Newton? Again. That is fine. I get not liking to go down that road and brand of football. But we drafted him. And not using an anomaly like Cam and taking advantage of what made him unique in NFL history is silly and Cam never is special if you don't. What did the GOAT Bill do with Cam? He used him in the manner that made Cam unique frankly more so than anyone had ever done. More so than Ron. And Cam won more games than us, in fewer games, with what was probably the worst roster in all the NFL. And few teams are going to want to play that way. But even Bill Belichick said, if you got Cam, you take advantage of what makes him special.

You seem to be in denial about what shortened Cam's career here. The 2016 shoulder injury that on a passing play, trying to make a tackle. Norv didn't prove Cam could be special in a pro system lol. Norv went 6-10 with Cam. It was the birth of the dink and dunk Cam Newton. And once teams got a little tape on that? Because all the wins were early.....that was finished. Norv/Cam finished 1-9. The literal worst stretch of Cam Newton's career.

I can find people that say all sorts of stuff. Cam could go today and rush for 1000 yards. He didn't get worn down. He was designed for it. It's what he was. He busted his shoulder up in 2016 on fluke play and couldn't throw after that. I mean his career is over. We know what happened. Cam wouldn't have been special in a pro system. He was special here. Again, he was an anomaly. A pro system totally negates what made him unique and special in the NFL. if you didn't want to go on that ride because you dislike what that ride is? Cool. Some people just like the game the way Tom Brady plays it. That's fine. Then you go get players that do that. But Ron drafted Cam. Again, it's a shame you didn't enjoy the best window in history. and you got you pro system guy in Bryce. It will be a different path. Because we will play to what he should do well. Hopefully, Frank can make a world he thrives in too.

Ron Rivera football in Carolina was about playing to Cam's strengths. And Cam Newton won rookie of the year, went to multiple Pro Bowls, and was league MVP because a coach was willing to do so. Cam Newton was a success in Carolina. That happened under Ron. The #1 overall pick worked out in the environment Ron built for him. And you remain invested on bashing Ron to the point of absurdity. Which again, is why YOU will make crazy statement like Cam only had decent/mediocre years in Carolina outside of 2015. That's the Ron fixation. Me? I got no problem acknowledging his flaws. He isn't my going to be whipping boy for all the flaws with the organization though. my first post to you in this thread simply acknowledged that Frank has never developed a #1 overall type QB investment as you were chalking him up as obviously better at it. Ron's only history of it worked out pretty well. You keep posting that I think Ron is some QB guru and technical developer. No, all that is simply hired out. Said Ron was willing to let Cam be Cam and devoted his job to that. Which was a risky move. And that's a massive reason why Cam Newton worked out. Because of what Ron was willing to do and create here. An environment for one of the unique QBs in NFL history. An anomoly at the position. And it worked out pretty good. Best window of our history. Shame you didn't enjoy more.

again, you keep going back to some argument you are manifesting.....after I called you out for claiming Cam Newton had one good season and just a bunch of decent or mediocre ones. Then you have altered you slowly altered your language about all those decent/mediocre ones because it was absurd. Ron Rivera is a defensive coach. They hire that out. Which is what Ron did. And Cam Newton is a borderline HOFer. And if hadn't blown his shoulder out in 2016 likely would have been a HOFer eventually. and yeah, you got a Ron fixation. Which means you are so fixated on bashing him you would say stuff like Cam only had decent/mediocre seasons outside of 2015 all as a means to bash Ron. Again, Fox and Ron were good enough. Easier to do worse than better than them. League history shows that. Biggest problem in Carolina was the owner/GM. Again, that's been the biggest problem from look at the pie chart moment forward. NFL is a talent league.

I mean, I have acknowledged Ron was flawed. Same with Fox. Again, flawed but good coaches vs their peers It’s a bigger convo than them. But that gets in the way of your Ron fixation. Last 2 decades. HCs. GMs. Owners. That makes your front office. Weakest link of that trio over the last 2 decades isn’t the coaches. Fox and Ron are better at their jobs than Hurney and Gettlemen.

Oh, well if THE Dan Synder said so. I’m not shorting circuiting my argument. My argument is and has always been the NFL is largely a player/talent league. You need a certain caliber HC and then it becomes about the talent. Ron and Fox were both good coaches. They checked the box. Then it became about getting them the right talent. And it’s not a science and a lot of luck comes into play, Good coaches maximize talent. Ron doesn’t. Because of Cam. A dude who broke records day one and will hold some for potentially decades. So let’s look elsewhere at some bigger names Ron had come in from elsewhere on O. 3 biggest names I can think of would be the following and they all trend the same way. Olsen - became a multi Pro Bowler in Carolina Tolbert - became a multi pro bowler in Carolina Ginn Jr - bust and who had the best window of his career in Carolina They all spent years elsewhere and looked their best here. Ron needed a better GM. Just like Fox needed one. Panthers gave them both a sportswriter who made life easy. That’s an ownership issue too. GM IMO has been THE biggest issue over the last 2 decades. And then you have to get into ownership. Both of which have been issues since the window Richardson pulled out the pie chart. Contracts, management of draft picks, and free agency. That’s where I look more so than who stood on the sidelines. Rhule excluded. He didn’t check the box. Talking Fox/Rivera.

Mr Scott and I save up for a yearly go at it.

True. You give any coach a Payton Manning and they are going to win a lot. Cam is basically a unique player in NFL history though. Because what made him a dominant QB was his running and how he ran. And everyone wants to compare him to elite passers in a league designed for them. Belichick was 5-13 with Bledsoe those first 2 seasons in New England. That’s not playing well. Tom Brady built a dynasty. He also made Belichick the best coach. And the league molded around Brady.

I mean, you don’t actually address any post made to you. Has Bill been carried by his QB? and you just ignore and paint everything in a Ron is bad context. Ron drafted a QB. Started him as a rookie. Cam grew. Got better. They won in year 3. They were going to win games as Cam and Luke developed. lot of luck in sports. But yeah, it’s a talent game. And Carolina hit a long stretch where too few did the lifting. It becomes a problem when they can’t in games. Ron isn’t winning in Washington because he doesn’t have the talent where he needs it. Like basically all coaches in the tier he lives in. It’s a talent game. And to suggest Ron has had total control in shitshow DC is a tough sell. Ron is there because he is a good coach. And the shitshow needed a man of his character to help in tough times. And he has done it all while whipping cancer. He is a bad mofo. One of the good ones in this league.

9 seasons as a NFL HC 72-74 3 winning seasons 1-2 in the playoffs NFL is about talent. It makes or breaks the majority of coaches. Especially, where you do and don't have the talent. That's Bill Belichick in the NFL when Tom Brady (the GOAT at the most important position in the NFL) isn't his starting QB. then there are the incompetent and bad coaches. Or those that aren't ready to lead a bunch of highly paid athletes. They generally stand out in any situation. Coaching at the NFL level is a people business in many aspects. Biggest problem for Carolina really post pie chart lockout talk.....has been the GM spot. Fox and Rivera were both good enough. Rhule wasn't. Frank is basically the opposite of the coin and an offensive Fox/Rivera. So hopefully he will be good enough too.

Every great coach is carried by players at the NFL level. Good ones too. Carolina's biggest issue is their talent was always thin. Better to rage about the GMs in Carolina.

Well, you at least morphed them up from mediocre/average to good.

Players and coaches get better and then get worse if they hang around long enough. And players make or break them all. Especially at the pro level. And that’s a different convo. I mean, one day it would be stupid to hire Belichick. That won’t change what he was.

Lot of disagreement is unshared definitions. I mean some who claimed a 12-4 Pro Bowl season should be viewed as a mediocre/average season.

Yeah, but numbers of who is better and worse aren’t comparable groups. One group is much larger. The worse one. it’s like talking QBs. It’s hard to find a good QB. Let alone great or HOF caliber.

Only 1/5 of the coaches in NFL history are above .500 and there are hundreds upon hundreds of them. Fox and Ron were both good coaches. Good coaches have flaws. The next tier does too. The one above that too. it’s easier to do worse. It’s old and isolated new math.