Icege

Get well Josey

*taps the sign*

The LB and DB rooms have a lot of question marks going into this season... I won't be surprised if the defense is better but not completely turned around. At the same time, this has been almost a total rebuild between this season and last... a group or two had to be the weak spots while other areas get shored up first.

Ah, I see. You're saying he's just a short game guy... but wouldn't the team still have needed a deep threat to keep those safeties from creeping down like they were when Reich/Brown had him dinking and dunking? Who from this list is preventing that from happening last season? David Moore? Then what about this season? Darius Slayton? I'm not saying that weren't better moves to have been made, but I don't think that AT is the half-in, half-out mindset as suggested. He came in under Reich, was a dependable veteran for a rookie HC that has a background with WRs, and is now set to make $2M less than the aforementioned Darius Slayton. What I am saying I guess is that when stepping back and looking at all of the available data points, the Adam Thielen signing was one of the few moves that this team has made that has worked out. Going to be fun seeing if Jimmy Horn Jr can contribute right away as that quick-twitch slot guy the team has been looking for. I don't see Thielen playing the entire season, so the sooner Jimmy picks things up the better.

I'm all for having developed Ladd under AT last season, but that still doesn't address WR1/WR2. Even if we add Diontae to that mix still, who is the other WR? I'd rather give AT the $9M and draft XL than pay DJ Chark (or Diontae Johnson) and draft Ladd, especially when drafting Ladd doesn't give the team a deep threat to take the top off of a defense like XL does.

Kon vs. Sacramento

For a moment I thought you were talking about Michael Jordan the football player and I got so irrationally angry thinking about him starting until I got to Clyde Drexler.

Missed the final 8min but seeing the team up by 32 at one point helped me cope. My favorite comments on the Hornets subreddit following the win last night:

My friend, you are already here.

I'm veeery interested to see how this affects team's draft strategy going forward. Guaranteeing a majority of that second rounder's contract is going to make it even more important for teams to not whiff. Marty Hurney is thanking his stars that he isn't a GM anymore.

It looks like the team agrees with you to some extent: TMac and Jimmy Horn Jr both provide a dynamic X as well as a slot, which allows XL to be the Z which might be a better fit for him. Ja'Tavion Sanders was drafted for his receiving chops as a TE. Jonathon Brooks was one of the better pass catching RBs in his draft class. I don't think Ladd makes any sense because the team had several slot WRs already and he's never going to be a perimeter guy which was what the team had lacked Bryce's rookie year. Adam Thielen was already signed as well. Ladd does make much more sense than throwing away Andy Dalton in the name of "competition" though, I'll give you that.

My reaction when I see opposing fans chalk up Carolina as a free win for them in the upcoming season

That's a much fairer point worth exploring as opposed to seemingly blaming him for producing more than what a team would usually want from a 34yr old WR. It also allows us to look at who was available then as well: The same season AT was brought in the team experimented with DJ Chark as the X. Would they have been better forgoing both players and signing Nuk for $13M/2yrs? Maybe... but I don't think that exactly changes anything about the final results at the end of the season. In fact, looking at who was signed (and for how much) makes the AT deal look even better in hindsight. $8.3M avg for a dependable, veteran slot... especially when also looking at this most recent free agency: Yea, the previous front offices whiffed horribly on building the WR room. Marty Hurney and Scott Fitterer did horrible jobs there. However, this is a different GM, HC, OC, etc. The HC + OC are WR coaches. If there's a time for the team to go young and develop, it's now imo.

Wonder if this gets any movement on Shough's deal like @Basbear mentioned earlier.

Yes, remind us all how patient you are with rookies by giving up on them after just one season instead of during the offseason. No idea what Adam Thielen has to do with any of this, but go off?

If he looks even slower this season, JT O'Sullivan is gonna be on DEMON TIME.

Fans that are hating on Andy are mainly doing it because they hate Bryce and want another QB on the roster that they believe can take the starting job. That's really all there is to it at this point.

This keeps circling back to the point of... who was supposed to be targeted? The next best option was a rookie drafted at the end of the first round and he got 84 targets over 16 games. Between Coker's emergence and the additions of TMac + Horn Jr, AT is going to see his opportunities going to younger guys. Fretting that he got so many targets last season when Diontae Johnson washed out, XL struggled, and they were left with David Moore as the next best option seems to be missing the forest for the trees.

We're in alignment regarding Thielen not being a game changer/breaker for the Panthers. Getting the ball into hands of playmakers like TMac and XL is going to open up things more than it is getting it to Thielen underneath (or letting him go after 50/50 balls 20yds downfield in his mid-30s). However, in a room where the other guys are two second year guys and two rookies, having a reliable vet that they can learn from is just as important as it is for the QB to have as a reliable third option. I can see that being worth $8.5M (just 3%) of the $279.2M cap... especially when looking at what's left out there: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/_/position/wr However, the idea that the team is forcing production to Thielen and leading to losses isn't supported by the data. Targets, not receiving yards, are how you can tell if a player is being "force fed." In the two games mentioned, let's look at the other players available... vs. TB 10 targets - Adam Thielen 9 targets - David Moore 8 targets - Tommy Tremble, Xavier Legette 3 targets - Jonathon Brooks 1 target - Dan Chisena, Feleipe Franks, Stephen Sullivan vs. PHI 11 targets - Adam Thielen 8 targets - Xavier Legette 5 targets - Chuba Hubbard, David Moore 2 targets - Tommy Tremble 1 target - Ja'Tavion Sanders, Deven Thompkins There isn't exactly a bounty of other names to throw the ball to. In those games, AT was one of the top 2 WRs. Diontae had been gone by that point. So... yea. Agreed that Thielen isn't exactly carrying the team in his mid-30s, but it's undeniable that he was the most reliable target last season that still has quite a bit of value this season. Whether or not that value is reflected in a manner folks think on the contract is going to come down to personal taste. However, the idea that the team was forcing production to AT and that was the reason behind some losses couldn't be further from the truth.

You said that we forced production to Thielen. Why are you looking at receiving yards to confirm that rather than targets?

Dunking (HA!) aside, the team looks like they're going to be a lot of fun watching develop and challenge next season. I was really only excited about Kalkbrenner, but seeing KJ light it up, McNeeley surprise, Kon respond, and Tidjane's ascension... shoot... it was an easy choice to snag eight tickets for the preseason game vs. OKC down here in Charleston in October.

"Why is Kon so different from any draft pick we've trotted out over the years? You act like he's your brother in law. These are just conversations. It's not like any of us has any say. You're entitled to your opinion same as anyone else is entitled to theirs."