tukafan21

Even with perfect textbook footwork, he doesn't have the arm strength needed to make the throws at this level, that's the problem. Arm strength can overcome poor footwork, great footwork can't overcome an inadequate arm strength. Yes it can help, and yes he has footwork issues, but those are fixable issues, you can't make this kid grow a howitzer out of his right shoulder. Sure he can add muscle, but his frame will only allow so much of it, he will never even have an average NFL arm strength, not in today's NFL. I'll admit there are a lot of fixable things with Bryce and ways he can improve (I don't necessarily think he will, but it's possible). But his arm strength just isn't one of them, it will always be one of the worst in the leagues, it's not really debatable to anyone who has watched him play with an objective eye.

They're still backup QBs, it's like saying any of our guards right now are "starting NFL guards" No, they're not, they're backups who are needing to start because the starers are injured. I also don't think he has a better arm than Jones, sure, maybe there is a debate about Ridder, but if that's the hill you're going to die on, that he MAYBE has the 30th or 31st strongest arm in the league, then I think you're missing the plot. You don't trade everything we did and draft a QB at #1 who MIGHT have a stronger arm than a couple of QB's in the league, it's a joke. There's nothing wrong with flat out saying, "we screwed up the pick, I hope he proves that wrong and finds a way to turn his career around, but he's just not the guy"

Arm strength is maybe his biggest overall problem because it's the root cause of a lot of his issues. When you don't have the arm you need to make the throws you make, it changes everything else. It changes the plays you can call, it changes the throws he can even attempt to make and thus causes him to make poor decisions because he flat out doesn't have the ability to make a throw if he doesn't have a perfect base underneath him. Because of that he always feels the need to pull the ball down and move in the pocket, which he also isn't fast or strong enough to do and it leads to sacks and throwaways. Where in the same situation, 90% of the other QB's in this league can still attempt the throw because they have the arm strength to throw off base. No, maybe they don't complete the passes every time (although they do at times), but they at least can attempt them, he flat out can't and it has a cascading affect on the rest of his play/decisions.

I watch more NFL than 99% of this board What starting QB in this league has a worse arm than Bryce? And again, as I said in my other post, I'm not talking about someone who is a backup who is getting a start because of injury (so whoever is starting for the Bengals doesn't count), but "normal" starting QBs. Closest I could think of is Pickett, but even his arm is stronger (again, not strong, but stronger than Bryce's).

So you're saying Bryce has a starting NFL QB caliber arm?

I don't nitpick, I call it like I see it. I spent all of 2015 saying Rivera was an awful coach who was going to cost us big time at some point. That he wasn't a good game day coach, that he can't adjust in game, that we kept winning in spite of him, not because of him, that our future HOF players were carrying the load. Then he went out there and crapped the bed in the SB, in a game we were the better team and should have won. Look, I want Bryce to prove me wrong, I don't want this franchise to keep moving backwards, but he was an awful pick and I'm going to call out high school level throws in the NFL, completed or not. He literally has one of the worst arms of any regularly starting QB I can ever remember (i.e. not career backups who get a start). We traded our future away for that, it makes no sense and I'll call it out every time I see crap throws like that.

Doesn't change that he has the worst arm of any starting QB in the league by a wide margin

The throw just now and the one to Thielen on 3rd down earlier in the drive are perfect examples of Bryce's noodle arm. 31 out of 32 QB's in this league make those same 2 throws on a line, zip it in there, Bryce can't even do that and has to just loft it over there because it's the only way he can complete those those to the sidelines. I swear, this kid is just that, a kid, he's not a grown man capable of being an NFL QB

Not really sure it's fair to compare him to Dell, he's like Puka in that the entire NFL missed on his evaluation. Dell likely would have actually fallen further in the draft if not for Stroud anyways, after the Texans drafted him, he asked them to draft Dell on day 2. They had created a friendship while preparing for the draft and worked out a lot together and realized they had a great connection, so he went to the team and told them about it after they took him. Which also is what makes it worse that we ended up with Bryce, as if we had taken Stroud, probably a good chance we also ended up with Dell.

I hope not, he's another that I don't think is really made for the NFL, more of a college coach. If he goes back to the NFL, it will be with a team that is already built and just needs a new voice to try and lead them, not with a mess of a franchise that needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

No it won't, it will slightly help, but it won't fix poo in time for this hire. Even hiring a legit and competent GM before an HC this offseason, it doesn't solve the real problem, that we're tied to Bryce for 2024, no 1st round pick in 2024, and a depleted roster. I don't care if we could somehow steal Howie Roseman from the Eagles, no decent HC candidate wants to step into that situation this offseason. Which is why I've been saying for weeks that firing Riech right now is 1 step forward but 3 steps backwards, it solves one problem while creating a whole new mess of others that I don't see a logical path forward from, namely, we can't attract someone we actually would want long term as HC this offseason. Short of Tepper guaranteeing this new HC that they won't get fired after this season, that they have free reign to replace Bryce with our 2025 1st, and another guarantee of 2 or 3 full seasons after that point before he'd consider firing them... nobody is tying their HC career to Bryce, not when most HC's only get 1 shot at it. They'd be taking a job where they're on the hot seat before they even move into the city and have Bryce as their QB while on said hot seat... who in their right mind wants that?!?!?!

Brown would go for it because nobody else is giving him an OC job in 2024, not after how this year went, he'll have to take a step backwards next year. So for him, I think it's a no brainer to get another chance at being OC in 2024 and see if he can show anything. Evero would be tougher to sell, but at the same time, he's not getting a HC job in 2024, so if the option is having to be a DC for a 3rd team in 3 years, or keep the same players and system he had this year that has been decent with mostly backups and hope they can stay healthy in 2024... the later seems like a better path for him to get an HC opportunity in 2025. It would be more favorable for finding a new HC because even if we kept losing because Bryce is awful, there at least will be more of a fight in the players with someone like Greg leading them. He'll instill a sense of confidence back into the players and franchise, even if the wins aren't there, similar to what Dan Campbell did in his first year with the Lions when they only won 3 games. And since in this scenario, Greg is taking it knowing it's a 1 year job unless we somehow have an amazing season, him stepping down because it's not working (which is what he'd have to agree to ahead of time in this scenario to get the job) is VERY different than if Tepper fires someone for the 3rd year in a row. We then have our Top 5 draft pick to entice a good HC candidate to come in and use to replace Bryce with the QB of their choice, while the franchise as a whole is just in a better mental state than they are right now. Again.... I'm not advocating for this and I don't think it will happen... but if the alternative is settling for say, Eric Bienemy, who will only make the locker room worse over 2024 because the players will hate playing for him, and then Tepper has to fire him after 1 year... I'll take this Greg scenario I've laid out 100 times out of 99 over the Bienemy one. Seriously, if we end up with Bienemy, people are going to long for the times like right now, when we realize we were nowhere near rock bottom compared to this time next year when the players are openly complaining about Bienemy being a POS. There is a reason he's never gotten that HC job before now, and it sure as hell isn't the color of his skin, it's because nobody likes him, he couldn't even get along with Mahomes.

Also, on the above, as I said in the first post, I'm not at all advocating for it, but it's a scenario I could see playing out that would at least make sense to consider him if it played out that way, that's all.

Well, I probably should have been more clear... it's only known that it's essentially a 1 year deal with the coaching staff. That way if/when Greg is clearly not a long term solution, they can easily sell it as a mutual parting after the season that just didn't work out, so Tepper doesn't have to fire another coach for a 3rd straight season. Basically just Greg trying to do his part to help fix the franchise and put them back on the right path before stepping aside to let a "real coach" take it the rest of the way. Brown would/should be on board with it since nobody else is giving him an OC opportunity in 2024 after this mess, Evero would be the tougher sell to get on board as he could/would have other interest, but his best shot at an HC job in 2025 would be to stick with the same unit he coached this season to try and build upon a not horrible defense this year when we're hopefully healthier next season. The alternative after we get turned down by all the HC candidates we actually would want, is hiring someone we don't want and then needing to fire them after the season because they're terrible anyways. I'm just convinced we aren't getting anyone worth a damn to be willing to take this job on and tie themselves to Bryce, and it's why I was VERY against firing Reich until next season. As hiring a crappy fallback HC who we then have to fire again is about the worst case scenario and only hinder the interest in the job again next offseason. Next season with Bryce and a 3rd rate HC is already a lost season before this one is even over, might as well at least bring in someone who loves the franchise and is someone who can be a leader of men like a Dan Campbell (essentially since I think we'll end up with Bienemy, who is the literal opposite of a leader of men, his players hate playing for him).

I actually could see a scenario where Greg makes a lot of sense as our HC (although I'm not exactly advocating for it). I also don't know if they could convince the coaches to buy into it either, but as a fan who isn't pleased with them firing Reich because of the level of HC I think we can get now, there is one scenario I wouldn't hate. Basically Greg goes into the job knowing he's a 1 season filler to bridge us to the next offseason when we can attract a new HC, partially with our 1st rounder to replace Bryce. The other half of it is that he's really there to provide a re-set to the franchise's mentality, which I think he actually would succeed at, on field success aside, especially as I think he'd bring guys like Luke or TD into the fold in some way as well. Keep Evero and Brown as the DC and OC here as well, so he basically is more of a figurehead and leader of men than anything. If we shock the world and he's some amazing HC, then you can give him another contract, but if not, it bridges the gap until we can attract a legitimate HC candidate and it would help get us back to the "Keep Pounding" mentality that this franchise has lost over the last few years. Again, I'm not saying I want this, but if (or more accurately when) we can't get anyone we actually want, it wouldn't be the worst fall back situation in the world as it avoids hiring someone crappy and needing to fire them after 1 season again. Basically what the Raiders are doing with Pierce right now, although he has actual coaching experience so it at least makes more sense.

Is he though? They do a great job scheming up easy throws for him to complete, but he's not a QB who is completing tough passes into tight windows and winning with his pin point accuracy. He's also only 20th in YPG this year, with only 2 games all season where he's thrown for more than 237 yards, and only 13 passing TDs in 12 games (he's also not racking up the rushing yards like in the past, he only has 5 games over 45 yards with only 1 game over 62). He is 29th in accuracy rating, 26th on deep ball accuracy, 28th on deep ball completion percentage, 28th on deep ball catchable pass rate. He is 29th and 27th in accuracy rating vs man and zone respectively, yet he is also 8th and 7th in completion percentage vs those coverages respectively. Which means he's completing a bunch of easy passes and/or his WRs are catching bad passes. To me, Lamar is a better and different version of Brock Purdy, someone who's success is more about the coaching staff and the team around them than their abilities as a QB. He's racking up mediocre passing stats based on scheme and short passes with YAC, not passing ability, there is a difference. I think Lamar is a picture perfect example of where people conflate and have a hard time separating fantasy output vs real life abilities.

I mean, you still seem to miss the point. It's not about whether he's elite or not, because yes, anyone can see he has an elite level impact on the game when he's in there. But the best ability in the NFL is availability, and he hasn't been able to finish the last 2 seasons. I just don't like his long term potential, solely due to that I don't see his body holding up for more than another year or two before it completely breaks down on him. Think of him like an elite RB in today's game, once they get into their late 20's, their effectiveness starts to seriously wane because they just can't take the pounding their bodies take. Sure, there are the outliers who fight through it, but they're usually built like a tank to withstand the beating. Lamar is no tank, he's more like a motorcycle than even a car, one crash and he's in serious trouble. And there is zero chance in hell that he is able to adapt his game to become an elite pocket passer, he just doesn't have that in his game, once his running game is taken away from him, he'll be an average QB at best.

I don't hate Lamar, I have no feelings towards Lamar. I'm just able to objectively look at a player who is built the way he is, plays the way he does, hasn't been able to finish either of the last two seasons, struggles as a pure passer, and have serious concerns about how he'll hold up long term in this league. We literally watched it happen to our own QB who was actually built to withstand having that type of game. He was fine for a number of years, then once he started to get dinged up, they quickly compounded on top of each other and he went from elite to out of the league in just a few years because his body completely broke down. Lamar couldn't finish his 4th or 5th seasons due to injury, Cam only missed 2 games in his 4th season and then won his MVP in his 5th season. Lamar is already ahead of Cam's pace of his body starting to breakdown, it's not a wild rationale to have serious concerns about how much longer he'll last in this league (and hell, Lamar only started 7 games his rookie year, so he has even less wear and tear on his body than Cam did at this point and has had more injury issues).

No they won't, because if they win a SB, it will be because of their running game, Lamar's running, and their defense. None of that will make questions about his passing or long term durability go away. Sure, it will justify the contract, as pretty much any trade/contract is deemed worth it if it leads to a SB win. The Rams gave up a stupid amount in the trade for Stafford who is falling apart now, but it got them a SB, so it was worth it. Winning a SB and questions remaining aren't mutually exclusive Winning a SB and a contract not being worth it are mutually exclusive Big difference between the two.

He always looks healthy until he gets hurt late in the season due to the accumulation of more hits than his frame can take in a given season before giving way. Look, I just don't like Lamar as a long term franchise QB, he's not a good enough passer and at some point, he won't be able to keep running, he's not a QB who is going to be effective when he gets into his 30's. I'll admit that if he can stay 100% healthy through a postseason run, they of course could win a SB, but I feel like they only have a year or two left on that window before his body really starts to break down. But he hasn't finished either of the last two seasons, played 12 games in each of them, same as he's played this year, I guarantee the Ravens front office is nervous right now.

He said he wants to win another ring, not lose in the first round because Lamar is hurt and can't play in the playoffs, again.

Cmon now, nobody on here is knowledgable enough of up and coming front office members of other teams to be able to speak intelligently on this topic. Closest we could get to it is saying we'd love to steal someone from a team like the Eagles who constantly make great personnel decisions.

We're going to end up hiring Bienemy because nobody else will ever hire him as their HC and in 2 years everyone is going to be complaining about how we have horrible team chemistry because nobody likes playing for him. We'll be the Raiders earlier this year before they fired McDaniels, same thing, the players hate the guy. He couldn't get along with Patrick Mahomes, when getting along with him and playing nice would like likely ended up with him getting a nice HC opportunity. But because everyone knew he couldn't get along with the best player in the game, nobody wanted to see how he is being in charge with less talented players, so he had to move to another OC job.

I think the difference is the Chargers owner was always terrible because he didn't care enough to try to do right by the QBs, while Tepper is trying everything he can, just sometimes doing too much or doing it the wrong way because he cares maybe too much. Just makes me think it isn't a situation the Manning's would pull the same thing as with Eli, I think they'd look at it as an opportunity, knowing Tepper would more than welcome the advice of someone like Peyton (Eli too, but let's be real, it's Peyton) and they could help him make sure they build the team around Arch right.

But wasn't part of it because their owner was known to be cheap at the time and Papa Manning didn't trust them to invest enough to put a winner on the field? It's the exact opposite with Tepper, dude has almost no limit on what he'll spend to win. Plus, you have to think wherever Arch gets drafted, Peyton and Eli would be more than willing to be a sounding board for anyone from the team to help them out. I'd have no problem with Peyton offering Tepper his advice on GM/HC type of decisions, and I think that's the type of person who Tepper would really value and respect their opinion on those matters.