tukafan21

Not totally inaccurate, haha Except that kid wasn't as excited as I was. I was yelling louder, and more, and running around the room in circles until I almost passed out from exhausting and was trying to catch my breath for a good 10 minutes because I'm way too old to be doing that, LOLOL Oh, and I tweaked a muscle in my shoulder from all the punching the air I was doing too. For as awesome as that pick was for me, it really screwed me up for a few days between my shoulder and lost voice (Wrexham securing back-to-back-to-back promotions Saturday afternoon contributed to that though too).

Full disclosure and the real reason.... I'll be seeing my Nephew in basically one month from today, and while I've gotten him stuff from my other teams the past year, I hadn't been willing to saddle him with Panthers stuff yet, that's now changed lol. So if the jersey would get to me before I see him, I'd get that and him his first Panthers onesie/shirt so I can get a picture of us together in them. If it wouldn't get to me by then, I'd just wait to get the one I prefer. So yea, my rush is really just about trying to get a picture of myself in it with my Nephew in Panthers gear too.

Yea, they've "confirmed the number" but that is a generic disclaimer they use, it doesn't mean the jerseys will be shipped out in 2-4 weeks from now already (it also doesn't mean they won't either). My guess is they'll start being shipped out a week or two after they start being sold in the team store, I can't see them shipping pre-orders before the store has them. So if they're not in the store yet despite them confirming his number like 3-4 days ago already, then I wasn't going to order it yet as the blues and/or better version may become available by then, which is what I'd prefer. As I'd be kinda frustrated if I bought the black on pre-order now, and then in a few weeks when they still haven't shipped yet, they then start selling the blues and/or better quality versions of them and those ship out all at the same time anyways.

just hit the market? it's been up there since the night we drafted him lol My question isn't about ordering it but if they're being sold in the team store yet, as that would signal them being shipped out sooner than later. I want the blue one and if the blacks won't ship for a few months, I'd rather wait to see if they put the blue out there before then. But if they're shipping in the next couple of weeks, screw that, I'll order this now and get another blue later, hahaha. I'd also prefer the next step up in the quality, but again, not sure when they'll make those available.

And again, the TLDR of the above is........ My expectations for T-Mac's rookie season have nothing to do with him and more because of my expectations for the rest of the WR room. I think his 2nd season when we then lose Thielen and replace him by just shifting everyone else up a spot in the pecking order and replace him with an end of the bench guy, is when he explodes for a huge yardage season. XL and Coker wouldn't make a good 1/2 combo with Thielen in the slot. But T-Mac as the 1 with Thielen in the slot has the real potential to make XL/Coker an actual elite 2/4 combo. Drafting T-Mac drastically changes the potential impact of those two, if anything, that's the biggest thing taking him did to the offense. Because honestly, how many teams have a 3rd and 4th receiving option as good as XL and Coker?

I think it's strange that you still can't see where I'm coming from, and I guarantee you don't have more faith in him than I do. You're looking at him in a vacuum, not about the team around him and the likely offensive game plans this season. We're going to be a run first team with 3 receiving options better than any of the other players on past rookie 1k seasons. If you can't understand that, then it's a you problem, not a me problem. Arizona's previous basketball coach, Sean Miller, used to do something at the first team meeting of every season and I think it's soooooooooo applicable to this situation. He'd have every player right down how many minutes/points they expected to average that season and then he'd add them up. It would show that if they all hit those numbers, we'd score like 125 points a game and need to be playing 7 guys at a time to get their minutes. That's pretty much how you guys are putting your T-Mac expectations out there, looking solely at the player and what you think he should be able to do, not how the offense will operate as a whole. Every yard one player gets is one less yard someone else can get. It sounds like I just have more faith in Thielen, XL, and Coker this year than most everyone else. But a big reason for that faith is because of T-Mac and how much he'll open things up for the rest of them and Bryce being the type of QB to take the open easy passes than force it to his #1. As I've said, if any one of the following happens... Thielen ends the season sub 700 yards, XL or Coker end up sub 500 yards... Then yes, I will then shift my expectations for T-Mac's rookie year to be at least 1,000 yard season. But since I have faith in those other 3 having solid seasons, it tempers my expectations yardage totals for T-Mac this year, and this year alone. I've also clearly stated many times that I think he's going to reach 10 TDs. If T-Mac ends the season with 800 yards and 10 TDs, while Thielen gets 900-1,000 and XL/Coker each get around 600, I don't see any world where that is a failure for a rookie season for T-Mac. Because again, we're talking about expectations, not what is possible. So given the other WR options, I can't EXPECT T-Mac to get to the 1k mark, which is a far cry from me saying I don't think he can get there. Do you really not see the difference there?

Same, but I'll take it even a step further, it's not about my willingness to buy Panthers gear again for the first time in a few years, it's that I'm even just wearing it again. I don't think I've worn a Panthers shirt in almost 2 years now, I stopped about a month into Bryce's rookie season, I just struggled to get behind the organization and all the mistakes I felt they were making. But I've basically been wearing Panthers gear exclusively since we made the T-Mac pick. My enthusiasm for the team is quite possible at an all time high (maybe that's dumb, but c'mon, you all KNOW why lol).

This is also why in a way, I don't want T-Mac to get to 1,000 yards, because I think it means XL or Coker took a step back. While maybe that would be good for T-Mac's growth, I have absolutely zero, in fact, less than zero concern about T-Mac becoming THAT guy for us and being a Top 10 WR every year with legit Top 5 potential. And even though I have faith that XL and Coker can be that 2/3 combo next to T-Mac in the future, I have far more concern in the two of them getting there than T-Mac being that #1, so their growth is "more important" to me this season than T-Mac's, in that sense. Thielen's presence will suppress the numbers T-Mac/XL/Coker put up, but his presence is what is best for Bryce's growth, which is more important than anything with the WRs this year because we need to know if he's going to be that franchise QB for us. If Bryce already proved himself to be that guy, Thielen isn't even on the team this year and none of this is a debate, then yes, T-Mac would HAVE to put up 1k this season.

Well sure, that's where the disconnect is then. If Thielen only gets 300-400 yards and T-Mac is healthy for the full season, then I'm with you guys, in that scenario there is absolutely zero excuse for him to not put up over 1,000 yards. In fact, I'll let you double that, if Thielen has only 600 yards, then again, my expectations are for T-Mac to surpass the 1k mark with ease. But his game has never been about his physical abilities, so even if he loses a half a step, he's still the same player who is a savvy route runner who will get open and Bryce will continue to find him due to their chemistry. Particularly since Bryce isn't a QB who forces things, he takes what the defense gives him. So when teams focus on T-Mac and Thielen is more free to find those holes in the defense than he has the last two years, I don't think Bryce is going to ignore him. If someone wants to argue for T-Mac getting to 1,000 yards, personally, I'd say those yards would be far more likelier to come from XL and Coker than Thielen. And that has nothing to do with XL or Coker, but that I'm still a firm believer in Thielen being able to still get 50-60 yards a game, again, particularly as he'll have less defensive attention on him than in either of his 2 seasons with us so far. Just because T-Mac is our #1 of the future who will have the ball forced to him at times, doesn't mean he needs to be forced into that role from day 1 when we have 3 very legitimate WR options next to him. Let the rookie grow into the role and the NFL game, we have that ability to do so because of Thielen, XL, and Coker.

Okay then, tell me what your expectations are for Thielen, XL, and Coker this year If someone wants to come out there and say they think Thielen is only getting 600-700 yards this year, then yea, I'm going to then expect T-Mac to get to 1,000. If someone wants to say they think XL or Coker is going to fall back to 300 yards this year, then yea, I'm going to expect T-Mac to get to 1,000. People seem to think I'm making excuses for why T-Mac can't get there, but it's the literal opposite, my expectations for him stem from my belief our other WRs for the first time in who knows how long. We finally have a legitimate and full WR room, not sure that's happened since the Smitty and Moose days. It's going to make them all better players, but it will also suppress all of their stats as they're all going to cannibalize each other a little bit.

The much shorter and less number analytical version of the above is that the T-Mac pick wasn't about giving Bryce an alpha receiver this season that dominates the targets. It was about shifting the rest of the WRs down a peg in their role to give Bryce better options this year while giving us a true #1 to take over next year when Thielen retires or signs somewhere else. It's to let XL and Coker grow this year as the 3rd and 4th option instead of the 2nd and 3rd option, so that they are then ready to step into those increased roles in 2026. While at the same time it's to allow T-Mac to get used to the NFL game without the pressure on him that those rookies last year had to be THE guy. And that's not to say he can't be THE guy, it's just that if you don't HAVE to do that to your rookie, it's better for the entire team, no matter how good that rookie may or may not be. Expectations are different than real possibilities. It's very POSSIBLE for T-Mac to get to 1k this year, but I think it's unfair to put that EXPECTATION on him leading into the season due to the other options Bryce will have at his disposal this year.

Did you read my post though, I very clearly pointed out why T-Mac is in a situation that is nothing remotely like those 4 last year, so let's try again.... Malik Nabers had 1,204 yards, the next 3 best pass catchers on that team... Wan'Dale Robinson (699 yards), Darius Slayton (573), Theo Johnson (331) Brian Thomas Jr had 1,282 yards, the next 3... Brenton Strange (411), Parker Washington (390), Christian Kirk (379) Ladd McConkey had 1,149 yards, the next 3... Quentin Johnston (711), Josh Palmer (584), Will Dissly (481) Bowers had 1,194 yards, the next 3... Jacoby Meyers (1,027), Tre Tucker (529), Alexander Mattisdon (294) I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert on the games of all those next 3 players behind rookies, but I don't think it's at all a stretch to say that Thielen, XL, and Coker next year will ALL be better than EVERY player on that list with the possible exception of Jacoby Meyers. If you can't see how having Thielen, XL, and Coker on the team will take more targets from T-Mac than Nabers, BTJ, Ladd, and Bowers had taken from them with the rest of their Top 4 options on their teams, then you're just fooling yourself. Even looking at 2 years ago, Puka was the only rookie to get there, and his next 3 leading receivers were Kupp (737 in 12 games), HIgbee (495), and Atwell (483). But this was also with the team having 4,300 receiving yards too, and if we have 4,300 yards in the passing game this year, then yes, I don't care what anyone else gets, T-Mac better be getting 1,000 or it will be a bad season for him. If you can't see that putting expectations on T-Mac in a vacuum because of what past rookies have been able to do, without any regard to the players on the team around him, then that's on you, sorry. So for you then, it sounds like you expect those yard to come from Thielen's total and that's what gets T-Mac over the 1k mark, which is a totally fair and valid prediction or expectation. Again, I'm not saying I don't think T-Mac will get to 1,000 yards. I'm saying it's not fair to have that as the EXPECTATION for him going into the season when you look at the offensive talent we have this year. Those are two VERY different things. If you EXPECT XL or Coker to take a step back and not improve this year, or if you EXPECT Thielen to finally lose a step and not come close to the 1k yard mark himself, then yes, I think EXPECTING 1,000 yards from T-Mac is perfectly acceptable in any or all of those situations and I'd then agree with you myself. But I don't expect those things. I do expect XL and Coker to continue to improve. I do expect Thielen to have one more season of being the same guy he has been for us the last 2 years. He's averaged 60.3 yards per game in his two years here, which would be a 1,025 yard season in 17 games. It's going to be VERY hard if not impossible for XL and Coker to improve, Thielen to be the same player for us, and T-Mac get to 1,000 yards all in the same season. If all 4 of those things happen, then as I've said before, Bryce might be a legitimate MVP contender as it means he's putting up video game like numbers, as it's hard to have 4 WRs who all produce like that in one season. Your argument of T-Mac not getting to 1,000 meaning either he didn't work out or the offense didn't work out, isn't fair, as there is a very real possibility that the offense clicks, all 4 of those WRs work out, and because of it, all 4 of them have suppressed stats this year compared to what they might have been able to put up without one or more of the other guys on the same team.

Two things here I mostly agree that you can't read too much into all the interview stuff the week after the draft, because yea, they're selling the fans on the pick at that point. But I think the initial press conference after the pick can tell you a lot about what they were thinking as they accidentally say a few things certain ways without thinking. And Canales' comments about the 5th pick being big and once they took Mason they thought their guy would drop to them. That wasn't post-pick spin, I think that was just him talking off the top of his head and "gave away" that T-Mac was one of, if not the, top targets the whole time. In regards to why the reports about us trading back if we never would have because we were taking T-Mac... I heard an interview with a former GM the morning of the draft and they said you really can never trust anything you're hearing with regards to that stuff. That teams will "let things leak" to purposefully try and make other teams think you're doing something else far more than anyone actually realizes. I think calling around looking for trades is a good way to make other teams be less afraid of you staying put and taking the guy they want, and thus make them feel it's not necessary to trade up ahead of them to get their guy before you do. I could very well see a scenario where the Cowboys trade up to 7 to take T-Mac if they thought we were going to take him, and since they took an OT when another went at 9 after us, they very well might have made that trade figuring at least one of the two OT's would still be there for them at 12 to take while getting extra picks.

It's a little weird to say both of these things. If Hunter isn't anything close to an NFL corner yet, by your definition then, no rookie in the history of the NFL has faced anyone close to an NFL corner in college and thus should are in for rude awakenings. As the previous post says, all rookies have their welcome to the NFL moment, but that doesn't mean they can't be confident about themselves. What 1st Round WR comes in these days without that "buckle up" type of mentality thinking they're going to crush it from day 1, that's who WRs are, especially the good ones. Yes, playing in a grown man game with be a step up from what he's played in college, but again, that's the exact same thing that every player in the history of the NFL has gone through, it's not like T-Mac is in for some special surprise the rest haven't been.

I can tell you've done your research on him from this post, as I had part of it in that response at first but removed it as for whatever reason I just felt my explanation of what I was trying to say felt clunky and wasn't getting my point across. It's the varying his speeds during routes part. I actually think that's why he had so many people saying he didn't seem like he had urgency in his route running, because he does THAT so well, and I think sometimes people see it and think he's loafing it out there but he's really just playing mind games with the DB's a lot of the time. He was soooooo good at those "I'm going to fake only running a 5-7 yard slant to sit in the hole but half as second before I know the QB is going to throw me the ball I'm going to take off at full speed" type of routes. We loved running those with him, he'd just run a slow short slant while the action is to the other side of the field through a play action or first read to the opposite side, and then he'd just take off on just enough of an angle to give him space on the defender and catch the pass in stride so he never slows down and gets those long strides moving. And yes, he's great at improvising. Part of it is that him and our QB have played together since the 8th grade, but it's also something Bryce excels at so I think the two of them will build chemistry on those fast.

I gave you a full breakdown and examples from last year as to why I think it's unfair to expect 1k from T-Mac this year if everyone stays healthy. But the TLDR version is we will have 4 legitimately good WRs next year, most rookies who get to 1,000 yards don't have any others on the team with them let alone 3 others, it will be hard for him to put up 1k with out the others being injured or falling short of expectations themselves, but in 2026 without Thielen it's different. Because again, I'm not assuming major injuries or games missed when I'm putting expectations out there for the season, I'm assuming good health. If those other 3 WRs combine to miss a lot of time, then yes, he needs to get to 1k in that scenario.

Last year Thielen had 615 yards in 10 games (had more ypg than his 1k season in 23). XL had 497 in 16 games with tons of drops and Coker had 478 in 11. They also only had only 192 of our 518 targets to get those numbers. So if Thielen has 1,000 yards again, XL and Coker each improve to say 600 yards each, and T-Mac comes in at 800 yards, you're going to say that's not good enough? Especially if he ends up with close to, if not getting to, double digit TD's like I think he will, as he's going to be a red zone monster for Bryce? Because if that's the breakdown of just the Top 4 and Bryce plays all 17 games, he's going to be pushing a 4,000 yard season as the TEs, RBs, and other WRs will probably add up to 750-1k yards as well, and I think that would be far more than anyone here could be expecting of him this season. Last year the Giants only had 2 players with more than 331 yards besides Nabers and they were 699 and 573 while Nabers "only" had 1,200 yards (granted in 15 games). While the Jags second leading receiving was a TE with 411 yards and BTJ also "only" had 1,282 but in all 17 games. Odunze couldn't get there (734 in 17 games) with Moore and Allen there, just as McConkey was able to get there because his competition for targets was Quentin Johnson (711 yards), Josh Palmer (584), and Will Dissly (481) who I think Thielen, XL, and Coker are all better than any of them. If everyone stays healthy and XL/Coker have improved, I think Bryce is going to spread the ball around rather than focus on T-Mac in a way that most of the 1k rookies have been able to get. Again I point to MHJ and the Cardinals last year. They had 3,859 yards receiving. McBride had 1,146, MHJ had 885, then their 3rd and 4th in rec yards were 548 and 414. Take the 146 and 85 that McBride/MHJ had over my example for our guys and give them to the other two and they get to 7 yards shy of the 1,200 combined yards I'm using for XL/Coker, while the rest of the team added up to 866 yards. So, if you expect T-Mac to get to 1k, where are you taking those yards from? if anything, XL and Coker each getting 600 yards seems like a low projection, so they wouldn't come from there. Maybe they come from Thielen now that we have T-Mac as the true #1. But I think if anything, having T-Mac draw attention will just make it easier for Thielen to get open and him and Bryce have great chemistry already, he's not going to stop throwing his way if he can pick up easy chunks of yards there. So maybe they come from the RBs, TEs, other WRs, but it's I think a very fair example to show why expecting 1,000 yards if everyone stays healthy isn't necessarily fair to him. It's also why I said I'd then expect at least 1,200 yards in 2026, as once Thielen leave and all 3 of T-Mac/XL/Coker get better, they absorb that 1,000 yards Thielen leaves behind with T-Mac probably taking close to half of it and the other two splitting up the other half.

Sure, he's said that, but what it really means is that he's just going to insist on being a two way player and the Jags want him as such. But he won't be a starter who plays every snap on both sides in Week 1, if at all during his rookie year. This is the NFL, no rookie, no matter how good they might be, is going to be able to go through their first mini and training camps while splitting time on both sides of the ball and be ready to be a week 1 starter and go full time both sides. And if a team does that, then they're dumb. I think their plan is to start him mainly on offense to give Lawrence another weapon, and I'm guessing it means he'll be a rotational CB early in the season, maybe he comes in when they go to nickel, even if he then plays the outside and someone else shifts inside.

lol, a friend of mine texted me after we drafted him and said something like, "so if he fails, will you have to change your name on your message board or go into hiding?" And yea, I've clearly planted my flag on him and what I believe he can be. So while I 100% honestly don't believe it will ever come to it, but yea, if he busts, I'll obviously have to eat crow. But I won't have to, when he's killing it for us for the next decade, everyone who hated on him the last few months will cheer for him and just know in the back of their minds that, "yep, he was right about this kid."

He plays more like AJ Green than either of those two. But to be fair, I did see a number of analysts say that there really aren't a lot of great comparisons for him, that he's a little bit unique. He's more athletic than Evans or London, but doesn't use his physicality of either of them, but he uses it more than guys like Sutton does.

So I'm not sure what goes into the rating and if it's meant does he get open vs the coverage or if it means the targets he gets in those coverages are open or not. As he had so many contested catches this year that were only that because our QB didn't throw it while he was open. Also, if he ever had man coverage, there was always a safety and/or a linebacker who would shade over to give double or triple coverage on him, they never let CB's just out on an island with him because the few times he did, they were automatic completions. So I'm sure that plays a factor into why he struggled to get open more in man, particularly as against a zone, he's VERY good at finding the holes in them and sitting down to give his QB a big target to find. But either way, the #1 thing I've always said he has to improve upon the most is his get off at the line, which absolutely would play a factor in him beating man coverage more often. Which is also why I've been so high on him, because that's something that NFL coaches can get you better at doing at the next level. It's much easier to coach things like that up than a player's hands or overall route running. It's also a reason I think him and Bryce are a great pairing, because with Bryce's anticipation and T-Mac's hands/radius, T-Mac won't need to create huge gaps of separation, all he needs is that small bit of separation and the ball is going to be there on time and he'll pluck it out of the air before the DB can get a hand on him to break it up.

Funny, because I think it's monumentally stupid to go in as a WR and not CB for him for two main reasons. First is that he's very slender, he has a much better chance at having a longer career as a CB than a WR because of that, and if he can't stay healthy as a WR, he's never going to get the huge contracts and play 10 years in the league like he could on the other side of the ball. The second and more important, is that CB is so much more difficult of a position to play at an elite level, you can't keep dipping your toe in and out of the water on that end and expect to be great. So if he's a full time WR, it will be really hard for him to play any CB part time and be successful at it and make it worth their while to let him to continue doing. But if he's a full time CB, it's much easier for them to have a few select packages on offense to where he gets maybe 10 snaps a game, half as a decoy, half getting the ball in creative ways to get him space to work in and make a big play here or there. Because also if that works while being an all pro caliber CB, he'll get paid so much more than any CB due to what else he offers, which then would probably rival top WR money, but have the chance at a much longer career while doing so. He's also just a better CB than he is WR, so why go full time at your weaker position that is easier to do part time and still have success?

I wanted all the smoke LOL As I said a ton of times, when people wanted to bring up legitimate weaknesses, I wouldn't attack them, because it was fair, but I'd also point out why his strengths were also unique and why I felt he still should be the pick. But it was when people would come out with the nonsense that in no way, shape, or form were near remotely accurate, that's when the claws came out, you're not going to besmirch my Wildcat GOAT and get away with it. When you've watched literally every snap of a player's career, half of them just watching him instead of the full play anyways, you can easily tell the people who are talking about him without seeing anything more than maybe a few minutes of highlights. I was never going to let those people get the last word in on him, not a chance, haha.

Well played haha Does it at least make you feel better about us taking T-Mac instead of Golden like you wanted, now that there are all these reports of teams like the Rams and Cowboys badly wanting T-Mac and trying to move up for them, but the Cowboys then passed on Golden and the Rams didn't try to trade up for him either?

First of all, DJ had 788 yards as a rookie And second, KB was playing with Cam the year before he won MVP, and while Olsen had the exact same 1,008 yards as KB that year, next on the list was Cotchery with 580 and then 4th was Philly Brown with 296. KB had 73 receptions on 146 targets that year, THAT'S why he had 1k+ yards, not because he was some dominant WR, there were no other WR options on that team at all. If you say Thielen and Olsen are somewhat equal, particularly in role and ability, then XL/Coker >>>>>> Cotchery/Brown. Yes, T-Mac very well could get there, and this isn't me hedging on the ability of my guy. It's that we should in theory have a lot of good receiving options and in his rookie year, I can see how T-Mac can have a good season but still not get to 1k this year because of it. In year 2 when we lose Thielen and he has that year under his belt, then yea, I'll say right now, I'm expecting a 1,200 yard season at minimum from him in 2026. But I just think expecting 1k this first year given the weapons we have and being a run first offense, isn't fair to T-Mac. Again, just look at MHJ for what an uber talented rookie is likely to do when there is another legit receiving option there. Nabers and BTJ were the only games in town for them last year, Puka the year before had a lot of time as the only option there while Kupp was hurt. If that happens to us next year with Thielen/XL/Coker, then yea, I'll then say T-Mac should get that 1k mark, but I'm not going to make my expectations based on expecting injuries.