tukafan21

The intro to the article talked about how they picked the teams and it wasn't just on overall career, it was a factor, but their peak ability also factored in. He 100% should be on a roster like this, because it was building the best roster from players since 2000, not the best careers during that time. And no matter how you slice it, CMC's peak ability if he could have had a long healthy career would have made him one of the best RBs of all time. He had back to back seasons with over 1k rushing and 100 catches, with the 2nd of them also having over 1k receiving, that's wild. He's also still only 29 and I think is going to end up playing at least another 5-6 years as he's going to slowly shift into being a slot WR at some point I believe and basically become what Deebo was for the 49ers for a while.

This is nothing against Bryce (or the trade) but I think the riser of 2025 is going to be Caleb Williams. A full offseason to get better, a new staff who has shown elite offensive game planning, added more weapons and significantly upgraded the OL, and really not as bad of a rookie season as many made it out to seem. He has breakout written all over him this year.

I don't think it's any weird or unique clause, it's the offset language, same thing so many contract disputes are over. It just means that including it, if a player is cut and then signed by another team, the original team would be able to subtract how much they're getting paid by the new team from what they still owe him on their guaranteed money. For example, it's why Russell Wilson signed for the minimum last year with the Steelers as that was included in his Denver contract. So if he signed with the Steelers for $1 million, he'd get $1 million less from the Broncos, if it was $2 million, he'd get $2 million less, basically he couldn't make any more money than he was already going to make, so you sign for the minimum to not take unnecessary cap room from your new team while giving extra cap room to your old one. The problem with trying to include it in rookie deals is that a team trying to include it, it says they think they don't really believe the player will make it 4 years with the team before they cut them. And this usually comes up with one or two rookies in most seasons, the difference is it's usually handled much more quietly and not as public and ugly as this one. The other difference is that it's happening with the Bengals, which I believe I saw are one of the few (or only?) team that doesn't have protections for rookies in rookie and mini camps to be able to participate even if they haven't signed their contract yet. The other teams have injury protections that allow them to still play, but the Bengals do not, which is also why this one is so public and ugly, as most the time this happens, the rookie is still participating in the rookie and subsequent mini camps, giving them more time to get the contract done before training camp when they'd then hold out.

Eh, I can see where you're coming from, but at the same time, unless the new jerseys were just god awful ugly, how many people would just cancel their order at that point? Those people, like myself, bought it because they wanted T-Mac's jersey, not because they loved the current uniforms and just wanted one. But I kinda hope they do give us new uniforms next offseason, just like with Cam, so this version of T-Mac's jersey will always be his "rookie jersey" which would be pretty neat. It was pretty well known at the time that we were getting new jersey's that next season so I waited to get my Cam until then and got an Authentic one, which is great, but I do still kinda regret not having a Cam rookie jersey in my collection.

Well they haven't been shipped out yet despite this past Friday being when they were supposed to and then an email went out saying they were pushed back a few more weeks. So you could make an argument that they delayed them as they'll be the new uniform and the team hasn't been ready to debut them yet, but I still don't see that at all being the case as it would just be weird to do it all after the draft and after all the rookie card pictures have been taken in the existing ones too.

This, even more so now that we know the team was so high on T-Mac, as highly drafted offensive skill position players sell a poo ton of jerseys. If we were planning on new uniforms this year, they'd have done it before the draft so they could capitalize on the hype of the rookie pick to help sell even more jerseys. To be honest, at this point, I think Tepper is waiting on Bryce to make a jersey update. Once Bryce proves himself one way or the other, Tepper will update the jersey's that following offseason. If he proves he's our franchise QB of the future, releasing them that offseason will drive a ton of sales. Just as the same is the opposite, if Bryce struggles again and the team knows they'll replace him in the draft, they'll release them that year to again, drive sales.

Full and complete disclosure Family cat got real sick over the last 48 hours, emergency vet visit from last night is looking like lung cancer (which is really bad for cats as it usually means it metastasized from elsewhere), appointment with our decades long vet in the morning You guys have seen me arguing when I'm not in a really dark place, while I still believe what I've been saying tonight, yea, it was just the wrong night to get into any kind of disagreement with me right now. Sorry

How am I all over the place? I'm still saying that. I'm saying that Chark at his best and T-Mac right now, on the same team right now for the 2025 season, T-Mac would be ahead of him on the depth chart Week 1. Because in the same way everyone is saying, "T-Mac hasn't played a snap in the NFL yet", the very same is true to say, "nothing Chark did in his past matters moving forward" His peak was a 1,008 yard season where he was the only decent WR on a terrible team. He didn't put up the 1k yard season because he was a great WR, it was because of how bad the rest of them on the team were. His stats aren't the same as his ability, and his ability was never all that good to begin with. Hell, most of this board agrees that T-Mac is our #1 right now, even if Thielen is Bryce's #1 option early in the saeson just because of the comfort level there, he's still just a slot safety valve and T-Mac is our #1. If you put peak Chark on the roster RIGHT NOW (even without T-Mac)... is anyone even putting him over Thielen, XL, or Coker going into this season? I'm honestly not sure many of us would consider him as such, because even at his best, he was just a JAG. So if the same people who are okay with T-Mac being ahead of those guys right now, wouldn't put Chark above them, how can you in the same breath say Chark was better than T-Mac already is now?

When I say "average NFL WR", for me, that's comparing him to all WRs in the league during that season/span of time. He was of course better than those #4-6 WR's that can't even get on the field, but talent/ability wise, he probably wasn't any better than a #3 WR for most NFL teams, he just happened to be on one of the teams in 2019 with even worse WR's so he put up solid stats for the season. Here's more or less how I'm looking at it. Take T-Mac right now and Chark at his best, put them on every NFL team at this very moment, and where would they fall on the depth chart come Week 1 (basically, the teams that don't put the rookies at #1 to "make them earn it in camp" don't count, it's projecting week 1 depth charts). T-Mac would be at worst the #2 WR on the majority of teams this season, (hell, he's likely our #1 at this very moment right now already), peak Chark would not. Yes, T-Mac still has to prove himself at this level, but his current ability, even as a rookie who hasn't played a snap yet, would have him above Chark on any team's week 1 depth chart. Because again, you can't just fall back on "well Chark had a 1,000 yard season" and use that as the reason for having him above T-Mac. As he didn't have that 1k yards because he was a beast, it was because he was the only halfway decent receiving option on a bad team that was always losing and passing the ball (the Jags had the 7th worst scoring differential that season).

Well that's part of where the disconnect is then, you think Chark was a "solid NFL player" I couldn't disagree more, he's someone who had one solid NFL season and then was at best a JAG the rest of his career, I wouldn't call that a "solid NFL player" If he was a #3 WR and put up the stats he did outside of that 1 season, then sure, he's a "solid NFL player" but he put up those numbers as the #1 WR in 3 of his 4 seasons that he had meaningful roles and the #2 in a high powered offense the 4th. That's not good and not what I'd call a "solid NFL player"

And that's totally fair to say, but I think it also shows you guys are conflating what I'm saying with thinking I'm saying something like, "T-Mac will 100% have a better NFL career than Chark had" which is a completely different statement and one I'd agree, you can't really say about any NFL player before they've ever taken a snap. Because what I'm saying, is that T-Mac's actual ability and skills right now, are at a higher level than Chark's ever were, it's a completely different statement that is independent of what his NFL output will be. Look at it this way, without even knowing what the rest of Chark's career turned out to be, would anyone seriously say they'd take Chark after the 2019 season over today's T-Mac if they somehow were in a draft and we were deciding between the two? As even after that season, his potential was never what T-Mac's is right now. Even with those other prospects, I'm sure some of them before their NFL career started, still had more ability and physical talent than Chark had, because again, this is so much less about T-Mac and so much more about Chark. A bad coach, system, QB, injuries, etc, that derail a WR's career no matter how good they may have been and is much more of the reason they were a bust than their own abilities. Chark was a tall WR with little WR speed, he was a deep ball threat and wasn't even particularly great at it, he was not that good of an actual WR. If the Jags had another above average WR in 2019, then Chark doesn't get his 1k season that I think people are getting too hung up on in thinking he was some great player in this league.

Maybe, but a player can also bust for a lot of reasons. And I'm not about to go look up the stats of all the 1st round WR busts, but I'd be surprised if they had the sustained output and success in college that T-Mac had. Those early WR busts are usually guys who had one breakout season and then were highly drafted because of physical potential, not already built out ability. I'm not even saying T-Mac is 100% going to have a better career than Chark (although I obviously think he will). I'm just saying that right now, his skill level and ability is better than Chark's ever was, and I don't understand how anyone is arguing against that, not because of T-Mac, but because of who Chark himself was. If you want to take the argument that you can't say ANY player who hasn't played a down yet can't be considered better than someone who has, then so be it (even though I'd say that's a dumb stance anyways). At his peak ability, Chark was more like a #3 WR than anything else, he was the definition of a league average WR. If you don't think a Top 10 selected WR with his tape is better than that just because they haven't played in the NFL yet, then you're just stuck on the "he hasn't played a down yet" idea and can't evaluate them as players and abilities.

The ONLY thing Chark was better at during his peak than T-Mac is right now, is that he was an actual burner. T-Mac has better hands, more fluid and agile, better catch radius, better route runner. It's not about stats but short of literally having the video at my disposal (and know how) to cut clips together to compare them, it's just the quickest/easiest way to do it because they's so absurdly polar opposites in output. And again, this has absolutely nothing to do with T-Mac, it's 100% about just being realistic with who Chark was as a player. I genuinely don't understand why people seem to think Chark was some all world player at any point in his career, he was never anything more than a league average player who had one decent statistical season as the only decent WR option on the team that year. I'd have said the exact same thing last year about MHJ, Nabers, Odunze, and BTJ vs Chark too.

Again, it's not about performance, it's purely a statement about his ability as a football player. Which right now, is better than Chark ever was, I don't understand how that is a controversial statement. This isn't someone who had a 1,500 yard season with a dozen touchdowns while being a threat the other team was afraid of on every snap. It's literally a guy who had a couple good games and then was just peppered with targets in the others because the team had no other viable WRs and he still barely cracked 1,000 yards, and then was barely even a JAG for the rest of his career outside that one season. Just look at it this way, take names aside, you're saying a guy who's peak was 1,008 yards and 2nd best season was 706 yards, was a better football player at that time than a WR who was just taken in the Top 10 and had multiple teams trying to trade up to get them. That's beyond asinine thinking. I'm genuinely not even sure Chark would make the argument himself if he was being completely honest and objective about it.

Well I'm not about to go pull video clips of both players and cut them up to do a visual comparison to them. I am fully aware that T-Mac hasn't played a snap in the NFL and he still needs to both stay healthy and perform at this level. But if anyone actually thinks that T-Mac isn't already just a better WR than Chark ever was in his entire career, then you're completely fooling yourself for reasons beyond my comprehension. This isn't a guy who at his peak, even for one season, was an all pro caliber player, it's someone who had a total of 3 games over 79 yards that season.

Clark played 2 seasons in college and had a grand total of 1,340 yards with 6 TDs. T-Mac had 1,402 and 10 as a Sophomore and 1,319 and 8 as a Junior in one less game since they didn't make a bowl (not to mention his 702 and 8 as a Freshman). In 9 years, Chark had 4,440 yards in his 7 seasons in the NFL and 2 years of college playing time, T-Mac had 3,423 yards in his 3 seasons in college alone. Chark's only 1,000 yard NFL season (which was only 1,008 yards to begin with, and only 3 games over 79 yards that year) came in an offense where the only other non RB's in the offense to have more than 35 targets were Chris Conely (90 targets for 775 yards) and Dede Westbrook (101 targets for 660 yards). His 2nd best season, his competition for targets was Keelan Cole Sr (88 targets for 642 yards), Laviska (79 targets for 600) and Conley again (63 targets for 471). Beyond his 1k season, he had seasons of 706, 525, 502, 174, 154, and 31 yards, despite being the #1 WR on his team for 3 of his 4 seasons that he had over 174 yards. Any 1st round WR should already be considered a better WR than that, let alone one taken in the Top 10 and has the college statistics that T-Mac had. Had we traded back and taken Egbuka or Golden, I'd still be saying the same thing about them vs Chark, this has nothing to do with my personal love of T-Mac.

What?!?!?! Chark's 1,000 yard season was 4 years before he played for us and he only had 525 yards in 15 games as our #1 WR. Dude has 3,100 yards in 7 seasons, he's the literal definition of a JAG and you think he is better than half our current WR room? T-Mac is literally already better than Chark was at his peak, which again, was years before he ever even put on a Panthers uniform, and there is a real argument to be made that XL and Coker were both better as rookies than Chark was for us in his one season here.

Not cool The T-Mac jerseys were supposed to ship out by tomorrow, they've had it listed as such for a while now. But they just sent out an email saying they're being pushed back another 2 weeks, which is what it is. But it's a bit of a kick in the nuts to then go to the team's site and see they have a 20% off sale going on right now, including on T-Mac jerseys. So those who wanted it bad enough to order early have it pushed back the day before they're supposed to ship, and we get told that while you currently have them on sale, kinda a dick move Panthers/Fanatics. At this rate, they're going to end up selling them in other colors or the better quality version before these even ship out, which was the only reason I waited a couple weeks before putting my order in anyways, so dumb.

He's signing with the Raiders for just over $4 million for one year?!?!?! Makes me think they're the only team that called him up that had a starting spot open, as why the hell else would you go to there for that amount of money instead of going to a contender on the cheap?

huh? Tremble is 39th, and Thomas is 25th, but having played in more games than all but 6 players above him on the list

If Thielen can get 919 yards this year, he'll move into 7th all time for us, which would mean 4th highest WR on the list

T-Mac about to take that #2 spot form Moose, would love to see him give Smitty a run for his money too, would mean he turned into a HOFer playing almost all, if not his full, career here.

While true, he still only just turned 29 and he'd be replacing either Jewell or Rozeboom who are 30 and 28 respectively. I don't see his age stopping interest on our end if they think he can be a big enough of an upgrade for us

No, next it will be Free Agents, which is why I think the teams are going to hold the line. If they give out fully guarantees to a ton of this year's 2nd rounders, those same agents are going to start demanding it for the top FA's next offseason before the draft ever happens, something that they've never done before except Watson and everyone said it was dumb and they were right.

No, you're just flat out not comprehending what is going on, because if it was really how you think, more than only the first 2 players taken in the round would be signed right now. Enough teams would just say screw it, it's not worth fighting with the agent over such a relatively low guaranteed cap hit. Your point about teams being afraid of spending that draft capital and not getting the player signed is also just asinine on the surface. Because yes, the teams want to make sure the draft capital they used is on the field for them, but 2nd rounders fail more than they succeed in general. If one holds out to try and re-enter the draft after a year off of football, they're tanking their career before it ever gets started and will fall further in that draft too. Teams expect their 1st rounders to pan out, but they just hope their 2nd rounders do, it's why the pressure is on the team to sign a 1st rounder, but it's why the players have so much more to lose by holding out than the teams do for anyone after the 1st round. It's 100% about precedent, that's literally the only thing driving this right now, on both sides. Again, if half the teams had signed them, or even a third of them, you might have a leg to stand on. But it's clear this has nothing to do with agent/team leverage at this point, it's about both sides trying to set a new precedent for contracts, and I don't see the agents winning this one on the whole. Maybe a few more end up getting it, but I'd bet at least 20 of the 2nd round picks do NOT get a fully guaranteed contract.