tukafan21

Not really, we could have afforded him if we waited on getting a #1 instead of giving Chark his contract. Once we did that, we couldn't justify the cost plus lack of snaps it would have given TMJ and Mingo. But now that we see TMJ is a total bust and Chark is kinda trash, it's different, particularly with how poor Bryce as looked, we need to get him improving THIS season and not wait till next.

Technically not true based on the title of the thread Bucs play Thursday

He's a worse version of Thielen, would be completely pointless for us to add him. We need outside and speed WRs, the literal opposite of what he is

No CMC had years of never missing games and playing at a HOF level while doing so. Horn hasn’t shown near enough on the field or enough health to slow walk a recovery to try and force a trade. Also, I never felt CMC did that, I thought at the end of both seasons is was more likely the team that shut him down, why risk further injury and hurt our draft position for him to play in a couple meaningless late season games.

No trading a first round pick for anyone until we know what Bryce can be and we're sure we aren't about to be picking in there Top 5 or 10 the year we trade the pick away. Trading a future first for DK would screw us over if Bryce still sucks and it ends up a Top 5 pick as that could either replace Bryce or take whoever is the top WR in that draft (assuming there is one worth it and there usually is) and get them on a fraction of the contract as DK. If we get the 2 firsts for Burns, I'd have no problem sending out one of them though, just not our own until we're sure Bryce is the QB of the future. If we end up in a Josh Rosen/Kyler Murray situation we absolutely bail on Bryce.

DK won't be made available during the season. But if JSN balls out the rest of the year, I could see a scenario where they trade DK in the offseason. He's going to want a new contract after 2024, and if they think JSN can be their new #1, he could be the Tyreek/Brown type of player who becomes available because their existing team doesn't want to dish out a Top 3 WR contract.

Unless that "something" is a future 1st or Burns, there is no way the Lions even pick up the phone. He was their first round pick last year who has shown immense potential in his limited playing time, they're not trading him for TMJ. The only scenario I could see us being able to pry him from them would be Burns + Chark (since he was there last year) for Williams and picks. But even that is more of a pipe dream since they are going to need to give an extension to Hutchinson after next season and that would be a lot of money to tie up in two DE's as opposed to having a potentially elite WR on a rookie deal.

I'd bet that Palmer is re-signed and likely Allen too on a slight hometown discount. Palmer seems to have a nice connection with Herbert, I don't think they'll want to break that up. I also want nothing to do with Williams, great talent and is absolutely a game changer, but the guy is a walking injury waiting to happen. Even when he's not missing games and able to play, he's constantly banged up and not going into games at 100%. Plus, he'll turn 30 a month into next season, he's older than you'd think at first guess. I'd rather go after someone like Courtland Sutton who would be cheaper and a year younger

Only need to pick one, game changer. What I was talking about there was purely in regards to "overpaying" for someone, and if we do that, they need to be young enough to be here a while. But I'm fine spending market value for a game changer who might be in their late 20's or even 30, I just wouldn't "overspend" for someone at that age. Essentially I'm saying I'd be fine overspending for someone like Higgins or even a Devonta Smith if the Eagles decide they don't want to, or just can't, pay for 2 big dollar WRs (not saying I think he'll specifically be available, but those type of players have become available in recent offseasons like Tyreek or Brown). But if someone like a Davante Adams was willing to come here and not complain and be a distraction, I wouldn't have issue paying market value even though he's older, as it's less about paying for the WR as much as it is paying for Bryce's development.

Diggs wants to win and catch a ton of passes, not one without the other. Right now we literally are the worst fit in the NFL for him, we suck and we don't have the QB to get him the ball the way he'd like. It would go down like the Hindenburg, and that's before even considering the fact that there is no trade we could make with the Bills to make them do that.

It's just simply that he's a savvy vet who puts in the work in the film room, he's able to recognize coverages and knows how to run his routes to find the space. Nothing tricky about it, it's why we signed him, so he could hopefully also be a partial coach to the young WRs and teach him everything he's learned over his career.

It rarely happens because franchise tagged players almost always end up playing on the tag or signing an extension to stay. Burns isn’t going to play on the tag when he almost sat this season to begin with, and I don’t think he wants to come back at this point or he’d have signed already, I think he wants out.

It was 3rd in my list of where cap room get spent, WR, OG, then pass rusher to fill what we lose by trading Burns We can’t fix all our problems in one offseason and if I have to pick between the two, I’d rather have WR fixed than pass rushing as we’re still not going to be contenders next year, while Bryce’s development is our top priority.

In no world will we trade him for two 2nd's, just won't happen. I also don't see any scenario where we give him the $30 million a season at this point, if we were both willing to agree to that number, he'd already have been signed. Remember, there always is a scenario where we put the non-exclusive franchise tag on him and he can't find the contract he's looking for and ends up re-signing with us for much less than we were trying to get him to sign for this past offseason. That scenario is also why I fully expect us to get the 2 first value for him in the offseason, I think we rubbed him the wrong way and he's already made the call in his mind that he's not coming back here. So if push comes to shove and he's not getting the contracts he's wanting out there, if he's willing to take a deal for say $25 million a season from someone else, it will make giving up the 2 firsts for him easier for some other team. I think Panthers fans have a tendency to view him in a worse light because he's not putting up stupid sack numbers yet this year, but they're disregarding that teams entire offensive gameplan is around slowing him down since we don't have enough other playmakers on defense for teams to worry about. He's still widely regarded as an elite pass rusher around the league, that in the end will make a difference as well, like the rest of our players we've sent away recently, people will just assume we used him wrong.

I think our fan base actually undervalues what his true NFL open market value would be, particularly to a team with a defense with other great pieces. He's stuck on a team right now that is constantly playing from behind, doesn't have another pass rusher, and is struggling in the secondary. Put him on a team with players at those positions and it will give him less double teams and more time to get to the passer, he'll dominate. I think in the end, the most likely scenario is that we end up getting a 2 first round equivalent for him, but maybe not 2 firsts. And by that I mean a first plus a really good player for him, or maybe a 1st, 2nd, and a good non WR One possibility is like you said, the Eagles, where I could see them wanting to only pay 1 of their WRs and instead of signing one of them to an extension, they trade Smith to not have to extend him at a big number. If JSN comes on strong in the second half of the season, I could see the Seahawks parting with DK and a 1st potentially. I think they'd be more likely to trade Lockett in the offseason, but he's not one I think we'd have interest in, which is really the only reason I said DK there. For all I know, neither of those teams would be interested in trading those WRs, but I'm guessing someone out there will be willing to give up a First and a WR for a pass rusher with Burns' potential. I also still see a very real possibility of a trade with the Bengals, they could tag Higgins so they can trade him, we could swap Burns for Higgins and a late 1st at that point much easier than we could in-season before the deadline.

Again, as has been explained many times before, 2 firsts mid-season is going to be tough to get again, because nobody will be sure they can get him signed to a long term deal. But it costs 2 firsts to sign a franchise tagged player, and there is about a 95% chance someone will sign him if we put the non-exclusive tag on him, and that might be a low estimate. Teams will look at the cost of 2 firsts as totally fair when they're doing it because they were already able to work out a long term deal with him and know they have him locked up. Hence why if we can't get that for him by the deadline, I said we should wait to trade him in the offseason.

name one non-realistic suggestion I made in there... I'll save you the time, there isn't one. They might not be able to accomplish everything I put there, but there isn't one thing that isn't reasonable or would work within our cap limit. Literally the "craziest" idea is trading Burns for a WR + 1st or 2 Firsts, both of which are very reasonable. And if you say it's not realistic because you don't trust Fitterer or Tepper to make the moves, that also doesn't count because the whole point is they keep screwing up, they need to just make the easy and obvious choices in front of them for a change, which are the things I proposed here.

None of what I said is a quick fix and I suggested keeping/re-signing more players than I suggested trading. I'm only recommending trading 2 players, one we can't re-sign and one who is a bust who is dropping passes the few times he gets on the field. The one we can't re-sign has the type of value that in a trade, it will help us fill our biggest hole and the #1 priority this team has, getting Bryce a #1 WR to help his development. At this point, trading a pass rusher for a WR is just better for this team, much easier to find pass rushing through a rotation of players than it is to get elite WR performance, as we've seen. I said in there I don't want to trade Chinn, but if we're not going to use him once healthy, there really is zero reason to not just take anything offered since it's a 100% chance he'll leave in FA and he'll only be back for the final 6ish games of the season anyways. Everything I had in there was just the first phase of fixing this team, as like you said, it won't be done in one offseason. But they're the realistic moves I'd make in the next 8 months with our draft picks, cap room and Burns' trade value, I think getting a #1 WR and a top level starting guard in FA is absolutely do-able.

I know some things are easier said than done and this won't solve all problems, but here's the main things I'd do to help put this team back on the right track....... Trade Burns by the deadline for 2 Firsts (it's the cost of signing a tagged player, it's possible) or 1 First and a WR (Higgins and Jameson Williams being the two I'd target in a deal like that). Anything less and we wait and tag him after the season for a deal then. Either insist on playing Chinn near 100% of defensive snaps once healthy to hopefully entice him to re-sign here in the offseason (option 1 as I think he can still be a stud if actually used), or trade him right now for anything we can get, because at his current usage rate there is a 0% chance he'd consider re-signing here, so why keep him to play him 30% of the snaps in the final 6 games of a dead season and then lose him for nothing. If we can't find a true outside #1 by the deadline, try and trade for someone like Curtis Samuel (was hoping we'd be in on a Mecole Hardman deal), we need a quick twitch speed guy at WR, let Bryce get the ball in his hands and go to work. If not, we need to go after someone like that in the offseason almost as much as we need a true outside #1, those players are becoming so useful in today's NFL game, even just with the defense needing to account for that type of speed on the field. Trade TMJ to the Bengals, I'd like to do it in a trade with Burns to get Higgins and a 1st, but if not, still trade him to them. With the Burrow/Chase connection, I have to think they'd be interested and likely our best possible trade partner for him to get something in return and hope to unlock his potential next year once Higgins is gone. Need to keep D-Jax, no he's not the player we wish he'd be, but he's still better than a lot of starting CBs in the league, trading him would only hurt us too much while not getting back enough of an asset to make it worth our while. Also need to keep Horn unless some team is stupid and offers us a 2nd for him, his potential if healthy is still too good to cut bait on yet. Hell, if he can come back and finish the season healthy, signing him to a modest 3 year extension with an out after year 1 or 2 might be the best way to go for both parties. Sign Luvu to a 3 year extension right now, don't let him get to FA in the offseason, get him locked up. Get Brown locked up this offseason, don't let another Burns situation happen again Cap room to be spent in order of WR, OG, pass rusher If we haven't traded Burns by the deadline, use him to get a #1 WR, whether in a direct trade with a team not wanting to give out an extension to a WR like with Tyreek and AJ Brown in recent years, or by trading him to a team for firsts that get used to make the WR trade. Go into next season with our WRs being... New #1, Thielen in the slot, combination of Mingo and new speedster WR as our top 4, the more Mingo shows by the end of this season, the less that speedster needs to be a legitimate #2 and more of a gadget type. Assuming healthy and expected starters in Moton, Ickey, Boseman, Corbett... use some of that cap room to fill the last guard spot instead of the draft. It worked out well with Boseman and Corbett, think it's the right place to use the cap. We need someone to play at an elite level Week 1 of next year, gotta keep Bryce upright. Use 2nd rounder (likely pick 33-35ish) on a WR only if one with true elite potential falls and we can't make the above WR moves first, if not, use it on a LB or DB who can be an immediate starter, as I think we are far more likely to hit on a player at those positions with that pick and they're positions of need. Use 3rd rounder on a pass catching TE, Hurst is okay but he's nothing special, we need to find our TE of the future and the 3rd is a good place to do it if there are worthwhile prospects at that time. BPA the rest of the way And last but not least, any of our own future 1st round picks are 100% off the table in any trade discussions right now, even for a true elite #1 WR. Until we know what Bryce is or can be, we can't trade away any more future 1sts as we need to keep all of them in case we have to take a QB if Bryce isn't working out, and that could be as early as 2025 depending how things go until then. This is also why I prefer to use Burns in getting our WR, either directly or through 1sts from trading him, as you need a 1st to get a true elite guy, but we can't give away another Top 5 pick potentially as that's just better off on using to draft a Marvin Harrison type on a cheaper contract anyways.

I can't stand Elon, I'll never call it X just on principle out of my disgust of the man. I even did the stupid custom image icon shortcut on my home screen so it still shows as Twitter and not stupid X (yea, I'm petty lol)

I'm not against trading picks for players, but with how many picks we've lost over the years, particularly for players who haven't lived up to the value of the trade, we have to be very picky in trading picks for players right now. Higgins is the only known WR even somewhat available that I'd be okay giving up anything decent, with Sutton probably being the only other WR out there that I'd give any picks for, and even that would probably be a 5th at most. Just because we always whiff on our picks, doesn't mean we should just expect us to keep doing so. 3rd and 4th round picks for us with our draft position this upcoming year will be the type of players that if we hit on them, they can be solid players for us as rookies on cheap deals. So if we're trading away those opportunities, they need to be for can't miss players like a Higgins, not someone like a Jeudy or Hollywood who is on an expiring contract as well.

It seems like they hit a grand slam with Puka and have him for 4 years on a super cheap contract, I'd be shocked to see them even consider trading him. Maybe I'm wrong and they see their window closing on Stafford and maybe they'd trade Puka and a 1st for Burns and Chark so they still have a useable WR this year. But just being honest, I'm not sure that would be a good trade for us, I don't think Puka is the WR we need, we need a true outside #1, preferably someone with some wheels on them. Puka is essentially a younger Thielen in the way he plays, that's not what we need to give Bryce since Thielen is playing that role at an elite level right now. I'd still probably do the trade if we had a chance, maybe we can get an additional mid round pick in return by including Chark or TMJ as well, but I don't think it should be our first choice of how to use Burns in a trade if we can help it.

Oh, you mean like right here where I clearly addressed the Smith suggestion in detail, about why it's both unrealistic right now but there is a small path to it being realistic in the offseason, with real-life reasons as to why that would be the case?

Stop making pie-in-the-sky, madden-esque suggestions and we'll see.

haha yea, easy for us to say, but like I also said, not sure that would even get it done anyways. I think to get it done we'd probably need a second 1st rounder in there, which while it actually might be "fair value" for a player like Jefferson, not sure I could ever justify two 1sts on top of Burns and another mid round pick or two for the honor of paying out the biggest WR contract in NFL history. We just still have too many holes and would be better served trading Burns elsewhere and using that 2024 1st on a WR on a rookie deal.