tukafan21

Never would have thought that my Panthers forum is going to be WILD for the Colorado @ Arizona game in 3 weeks LOL Hunter covering T-Mac might melt Cam's mind (we won't mention the stats from last year's matchup when T-Mac had 9 catches for 107 and a TD with Hunter on him most of the game, including the TD catch he had on him)

100%, but that's why I take T-Mac Do you think the Vikings and Darnold would look as good as they have without Jefferson? I'm not saying T-Mac will be Jefferson and the literal best WR in the game and doing things nobody has seen before, but it shows what a true elite WR can do for a team. If we get the #1 pick and can't find anyone to trade back with, I'm still taking T-Mac (yea, maybe that's where my Arizona bias shows, but still, I think he has that kind of potential where even if we took him #1, when people look back 5 years later it will look like the right call).

Sure, but you can solve the #1 WR spot for the next 4 years on a rookie contract and then hopefully a Top 10 WR in the league for the next 6-8 years after that by taking T-Mac. In today's game, as important as pass rushers are, you can find them later in the draft or bargain FA's on a year to year basis if you evaluate properly. But #1 WR's are not as easy to come by, as we've shown by not being able to do it since Smitty outside of DJ, and really he never quite got to that Top 10 WR status here either. Give me the 6'5" 215 lbs WR with glue sticks for hands and more than solid speed and agility all day, those kind of WR's are near impossible to find these days. I'm telling you, 5 years from now he's going to be right there in the discussion with Jefferson, Chase, Harrison, etc as a clear Top 10 and in the discussion of Top 5 WRs in the league.

I absolutely get you. You fall for media hype and can't separate collegiate ability, impact, and highlights with projecting how the player translates to the NFL game. You did it with Bryce, you're doing it here (although you won't be near as wrong here than with Bryce as Hunter will still be a very good if not great NFL player at either position), and have done it with numerous other of your Panthers player personnel discussions over the last year or so. You seem to take my posts describing why I think Hunter will make for a better CB than WR and saying his 2 way ability in college has no bearing on his NFL draft prospects at a single position, as me tearing him down and not saying he's a great player, which is just nonsense as my literal words say the exact opposite time and time again. That's the crux of it, you don't want to take the time to actually read and comprehend what I've been saying about him, you just see "T-Mac over Hunter for X, Y, and Z objective reasons" and read it as "OH MY GOD HUNTER IS THE WORST PROSPECT IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL DRAFT AND I HATE HIM BECAUSE OF IT" Yes, I have a general T-Mac bias, I'm an Arizona alum, I haven't hidden from that. But I can also separate the two and look at them as pure WR prospects and regardless of my alumni status, I'd take T-Mac over Hunter 100 out of 100 times.

Ugh, why would you want to re-sign a 29 year old player to a big contract over drafting a 21 year old player with a much higher ceiling Id take Hunter over T-Mac if it’s that or re-signing Johnson to a big deal

This is a joke, right? this entire time I’ve said Hunter is my #3 WR and a generational college talent while you’ve been saying I tearing Hunter down instead of saying he’s great But now you’re saying I’m the one saying you’re disrespectful to put Hunter over him? No, I’m just saying you’re wrong and can’t or are unwilling to read/understand what I’ve been saying about Hunter.

Halfway through the first quarter and T-Mac has a grand total of 0 catches for 0 yards and 0 TDs He sucks

First of all, THAT post wasn't me Second of all, I've said that traits and how they project to the NFL game matter more than stats, but if you're going to look at stats, you have to look at them correctly anyways.

And per my latest post, that Hunter only has 108 more yards despite playing 2 more games so far? You want to discount a 300 yard game but ignore that? Okay, makes sense to me

Oh, and side note, if you're going to tout stats as the trump card in a discussion, maybe you should learn how to look at them better. Because yes, as of this moment, Hunter has 46 catches, 561 yards, and 6 TDs compared to T-Mac's 23, 453, and 4 TDs So yea, Hunter has 23 catches, 108 yards, and 2 TDs more than T-Mac, and like you said, T-Mac hasn't played yet today. But what you didn't look at is that Colorado already had played one more game than Arizona this season before this week as we were on bye last week, so those numbers are now having played 2 more games than T-Mac. Sure, the 23 more catches is impressive, but 108 more yards in 2 more games, not so much. That also points out my comparison between the two, Hunter isn't the downfield threat that T-Mac is.

Why are stats your end all be all in the discussion between two players? Since when do raw stats have anything to do with NFL potential, do you not realize how different the college game is and how the stats aren't everything? Malik Washington Oh, who's that you probably ask? He was a 6th round draft pick by the Dolphins this past year. Why do I bring him up you ask? Because he lead the nation last year with 110 catches, was 4th in yards, and a pathetic 26th in TD's BUT STATS!!!!!!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!! HOW CAN WE EVER JUDGE TWO PLAYERS DRAFT PROSPECTS AGAINST EACH OTHER ON ANYTHING OTHER THAN STATS?!?!?!?!?!

So me saying Hunter is a 1st round talent on either side of the ball, but he's a better CB prospect than WR, and if he did go in as a WR he's still the #2 or #3 WR in the draft, while also saying he's a legit generational college talent......... Is me not admitting he's a great player and is me tearing him down? What fuging planet are you living on?!?!?!?!?! This is such a baffling post, I've done nothing but give Hunter respect in all of my posts about him and have just said he's not going to be a 2 way player at the next level and he's not as good of a WR prospect as T-Mac is. But sure, I guess that's the same thing as me not admitting he's a great player and tearing him down, that makes total sense

If Hunter enters the draft as a WR, then 100% yes, and a very solid chance Burden goes before him as well. If he enters as a CB, there's just no way to predict it as it comes down to team needs of course.

If you want to start comparing NFL Draft prospects by looking at stats on a box score, then again, you just sound dumb. As I've said to you dozens upon dozens of times, the college and NFL game are entirely different. Just because you put up great stats in college, doesn't mean you are destined to be great in the NFL. Just look at all the Heisman QB's who were awful in the NFL, or never even got a chance because NFL execs knew their game didn't properly translate. Not to mention that EVERYTHING Colorado and Deion does on offense, is to maximize Shedeur's and Hunter's stats, even if it's not what is best for the team itself. Deion has proven that, he cares far more about his 2 kids and Hunter than the actual program, he's a glorified cheerleader, not a real HC. If he goes in as a WR, he's absolutely NOT being drafted above T-Mac. If he tries to be a 2 way player it won't work and he'll either be forced to one side of the ball or just be out of the league due to injuries from his body not being able to stand the physicality of playing both ways in the NFL (but I also don't think it would come to that because I don't see any NFL team earnestly letting him play full time both ways regardless). You're falling for the hype machine and collegiate impact, and confusing that with legitimate NFL draft prospects, two very different things.

The TLDR version of my response to this above is.... stop talking about his 2 way game when discussing his NFL Draft prospects. He won't be a full time 2 way player in the NFL no matter how much he wants to be one. So stop talking about it when saying it affects his draft status, it just makes you sound dumb. Talk about it in regards to his college greatness all you want, but it needs to stop there as it doesn't affect his NFL prospects, period.

This post literally proves what I've been saying about him and what you seem to just gloss over and ignore while saying it's a feather into his cap for his draft status. Him being a 2 way player has ZERO standing on his NFL draft prospects, as he will NOT be a full time 2 way player in the NFL, if that was even reasonably feasible, it would change things, but it's not. If he enters the draft as a CB, then sure, it gives him a slight boost because a team could look at him as someone they could give 10-15 snaps on offense a game as a gadget player. But his college 2 way game has less than zero impact on his NFL draft prospects as a full time WR. You can't seem to separate college impact from NFL draft prospects, they're literally 2 entirely different things, and if you can't acknowledge or understand that, then this conversation is just absurdly pointless anyways. And the comparisons have nothing to do with their game itself, just impact at each level. The Bush comparison is about his college vs NFL impact. Bush was a complete generational collegiate talent, there's been few like him with how he could take over a game, but he was just a solid NFL player with moments of greatness. Woodson was a generational collegiate talent who also could take over games, in a manner much more similar to Hunter, but his game translated to being a 1st baller HOFer. Which is why I say he's more Bush than Woodson, both game changers in college, but only one was also a generational NFL talent in the end. And again I have to clarify, none of this is saying he's going to be a bust or not even a 1st round talent. It's all as to why I rank him below TWO players in the draft next year if he were to decide to play WR. But you seem to think I'm saying he shouldn't be going until the 5th round or something with how you think I attack him.

Oh, and while I'll admit I didn't watch their game today, his stats today seem a bit underwhelming. 9 for 89 (and yes a TD as well) when he also had a 29 yard catch, so only had 60 yards on his other 8 catches, is kinda meh, sounds like he just got a bunch of short catches that he couldn't break into long gainers. Like I've said before, T-Mac is so much more of a prototypical outside #1 WR who is a downfield threat, but with Hunter's size, he's more of a slot WR who you need to get the ball into his hands for him to be most effective. Of course he can be a great NFL WR if he plays that side of the ball, but it's why I put him below T-Mac in particular. I'd rather have the true #1 than someone who's likely going to need to be more of a slot WR to be most effective in the NFL (and again I think he ends up on the defensive side of the ball anyways as most scouts agree it's the side he has a higher potential at the next level)

How many times do I have to tell you that there is a difference between NCAA and NFL football? His 2 way ability is something you just don't see anymore, so yea, when you can play both ways at a high level, it's going to likely make you the best player in the nation. That doesn't mean the same player has to then be considered the top player in the draft, not by any means. Just look at the numbers of Heisman winners who were drafted low and/or never had decent NFL careers. You're stuck on him being this generational NCAA talent and think that makes him the #1 WR, when in reality it's his 2nd best position, when combined with his size, makes him a better CB prospect than a WR. And even beyond that, it's not like I've ever said he's undraftable or even a mid round pick, I've said he's still likely a 1st rounder as WR, but just the 3rd best WR, not one of the Top 2 because there are 2 better WR prospects. The fact that you can't or won't see this argument and just take anything I say as attacking Hunter or saying he's awful, is YOU making it personal, not me, like you love to claim. I've said it before, he's more Reggie Bush, a generational college talent but someone who's game doesn't translate the same way to the NFL, than a Charles Woodson, a 2 way talent who was also ended up a 1st ballot HOFer.

Someone on another forum of mine said a close friend of theirs with family in Ashville just lost their parents and nephew and their sister is in trauma surgery after their house collapsed while they were on the roof waiting for a rescue. This is all terrible stuff, but losing so much of your family in a way like that is just unfathomable, I couldn't imagine. I hope all my fellow Panthers fans living in NC are staying as safe as possible

At this rate, unless Daniels can flip a switch in his head and completely change his running style, he won't be their starting QB 5 years from now. It has nothing to do with him not being good, as he clearly has a very high ceiling, but he just can't get sliding into his head properly, and at some point, if he can't change that, he's going to get hurt. He has RG3 and Tua written all over him, and while he may get away with it 95% of the time, all it takes is that 5% to rear it's ugly head and take a hit or two that he shouldn't have, and it's all downhill for him from there. If he was built like a Cam, Allen, Richardson, then it would be different, but he's not, he looks like a very similar body type to RG3, and we've seen that doesn't hold up in this league over time if you can't properly slide when you're supposed to. It's still early and he very well could change, but if he doesn't, he's in trouble

Agree-ish on this We can do that, but only way to do it is to openly say it’s to prevent him from injury while trying to trade him As not even getting a jersey and being bumped down below Plummer without openly saying we’re trading him, would also hurt his trade value as well. Its just a bad situation all around right now, hopefully someone just makes a dumb offer of like a 2nd for him and we jump all over it

Actually disagree with the "next week" part of this, but agree if you change that to "after the trade deadline" His trade value will never be lower than it is this next week (unless he plays again and looks awful). Dalton looking this good just makes Bryce look even worse, I think all those teams calling about Bryce this past week just lowered their offers for him after watching this one. Need to wait a bit for Dalton to struggle a game and thus give Bryce a little more leeway in the eyes of other GM's as to him not being the entire problem.

Again, in the short term, but not the long run when you start to build a real NFL roster with true talent at the top end of the draft for a few years. I don't see Lions or Texans fans complaining about FA's not wanting to sign with them because they were complete dog poo 4 years ago. It's never going to be a one year fix to re-build a roster this void of elite talent. Yes, I'll give you that we've been such a mess since Tepper bought the team that it certainly won't attract FA's, but the last 5 years are a sunk cost at this point. Making current and future decisions based on past mistakes is only a path to continuing to make mistakes.

The same people bashing me in this thread today will be the same ones who are complaining in April when we miss out on X, Y, or Z players they wanted at the top of the draft because we're picking 7th instead of 3rd. Then they'll be the same ones complaining that we're a 8-9 team 3 years from now and still not contending

At no point in Kuechly's career did we ever have a jersey with sewn on Panthers logos on the sleeve, they were ALWAYS the screen pressed logos, that alone is a dead giveaway that it's not an official jersey. Not to mention the different captains logo patches, they've never changed those, yet they're not the same on each jersey