MHS831

There are way to many variables to statistically measure the play, and ultimately, wins matter and nothing else does. However, KC? Philly? Tampa? all close games vs playoff teams (probably) with a QB who was left for dead and asked to play without multiple combinations of his top 5 WRs who were on the roster at the beginning of the year. This ain't Disney. We could beat Dallas--how many would have said that week 3? We have a 34-year old white dude from Minnesota state who probably cant run a 4.8 today, an undrafted free agent from Holy Cross, a very raw WR with one season of college experience-and a wr best known for his special teams abilities. Our best TE is a fourth round rookie. During that time, we lost the #1 WR, the expected #2/3 WR (Mingo), and the slot to injury. Average is damn good right now---and when the defense gets Brown back and fills some holes, we could be better than average. Again, this aint Disney.

We were decimated by injuries and we were getting blown out. Bryce threw for 300 yards in his first four games--2 after being benched. But he stepped up during the Denver game--his fifth--and since then, has thrown for 1270 yards in six games--many more passes down field. Yet some cherry picking stat critics want to point out that he is averaging a 59% completion rate. That is right--but he is throwing it downfield--which is how his average improved from 75 yards per game (games 1-4) to 210 yards per game (his last six starts). Does that send him to Canton? No. Pro Bowl? No. But he is improving, and if anyone cant see the connection between Bryce's success of late (wins against the Saints and Giants and lost to the Chiefs, Bucs, and Eagles by a total of 12 points combined. Meanwhile, he lost Johnson (#1 WR) and that is about when his completion yardage improved. He just got AT back, lost Marshall and Mingo (no biggie, but consistency is impacted), He just lost Coker for the past 3 games who's per game average would make him the seventh most productive rookie WR. XL is still raw, and Moore has looked solid--he has a rookie TE who is 12th among rookie WRs and TEs. He lost his center. Weapons? When have the been together on the field? Yet he has improved by 125 yards per game since his fourth game starting this season. The team is now competitive. Had XL decided to catch passes on Sunday, the team would be 3-3 with an overtime loss to Tampa and a last second FG to KC. If you can't see the growth, I think you are a fan of the wrong sport.

Bullshirt--here is why. Look again at your stats--lets go first five games and last five games. First four games 300 yards Last six games 1273 yards Cherry pick stats much? Secondly, he is throwing the ball downfield to do this--before he was checking it down.

WR in this draft is weird--not like last year--and I think The draft starts at pick #4 (the first three picks are fairly locked in--Giants and Raiders are going QB) and whomever is picking third will take Hunter--So that, in my mind in December, leaves TMcM (WR) and Graham (DT). I would be happy with either, but the drop off at DT into the second round is not as steep as it is at WR, especially starting #1, X WRs. I take TMcM and draft an edge in round 2--DT in round 3....

Very true....if you are using your body to protect the ball, or if the defender might "karate chop" your extended arm, it is sometimes better to let the ball into your body instead of reaching out for it. REASON FOR HOPE Note in this graphic, Legette is 8th, and all the WRs / TEs drafted before him are the only player who have more yards--and they all have been targeted more except Worthy, who has just 16 more yards and Mahomes as his QB. Furthermore, Coker's numbers are based on 7 games. If he played 13 at the same level, he woudl be the seventh highest rated rookie WR with fewer targets that all of the top 10 WRs. Finally, Ja 'Tavion Sanders is rated 12th. So of the top 14 ROOKIE WRs and TEs, three (3) are Panthers.

I think it was Samuel. Legette is raw--there is a reason he did not play much until injuries and graduations gave him his shot. His situation is mental, but he needs experience on the jugs machine and he needs a run of sustained success to get him over the hump--otherwise, he has the tools and he is a stud. I am not as worried about a rookie WR struggling at the end of 17 game season as I would be a second-year guy. Mushin Muhammad had 52 catches for 724 yards and 1 TD--in his first 2 seasons. I recall there being some concern about his hands, and he seemed to improve.

In my case, it was insecurity. You have to trust your hands. It can be overcome with reps.

In college, we worked on them all the time--some is raw, god-given ability, but a lot of it is muscle memory and practice. We had some guys come in who were terrible and they never became good, but they improved. The main thing I noticed, and the thing that matters most, is how cocky are you in a game on a full sprint with the ball heading toward you as you know a safety is looking to take your head off (I am old school). I am not sure where that comes from, but if you drop three of those in one game, it is pretty devastating. If you catch them, you feel that you are unstoppable. It is a mindset, for sure.

Between 2013-2015 Ted Ginn had a 12.1% drop rate...To put that into perspective, going into Sunday's game, Legette had a drop rate of 6.8%--the eighth worst in the league. I imagine it is over 8% after Sunday. I can tell you that WRs like baseball hitters and kickers go through slumps. It is very mental. Legette body catches--as opposed to reaching towards the ball and bringing it in. Body catches are not clean catches--they must be secured after they are cradled-Legette's first drop is a demonstration of why they are not good. The other issues are fixable. The TD that was dropped was because he took a hand off the ball and tried to tuck it as he was going to the ground. Never take the second hand off the ball when going to the ground. He will be OK--needs an offseason of catching jugs bullets in his entire radius, facing the machine, back to the machine, sides, etc. He needs to practice catching passes on the run and he needs people hitting him with hand shields as the ball is approaching. He needs confidence, and he seems to have lost it. Considering the market for free agent WRs and how unlikely a top one would want to come to Charlotte, And when I consider the draft, I think we would be smart to draft a WR in the first round. I think we need to use the rest of the draft on defense--but I would not be opposed to drafting a TE.

Bryce does not play defense or WR. Today, the game was lost by XL, not Bryce--but you just (basically) blamed Young for the loss. On the road against a good team that was favored by 2 TDs and we should have won if Legette catches that pass. And last year, Bryce had 1 game (Green Bay) where he played at this level--yet he has played at a high level for the past 5-6 weeks. That is a fair assessment--you do not have to win to improve.

This didn't age well....we shall see.

I have heard of Baptist, Catholic, and Methodist Churches. Not sure this one gets you to your destination. Can you imagine the person who got postered in that blind leap--Jaguar Jarion Jones--hurdling a guy with his back to him---I have yet to see the photo where you can see their faces, but I would be so worried about a poster on the wall at Dick's with Barkley's scrotum bouncing on the top of my helmet and my arms spread wide whiffing on a tackle looking up. I would retire.

Isn't Coker basically the Thielen replacement? I see him in the slot. We need to find an x and hope we get at least a Z. we can win with a top WR. Most growth happens between years 1 and 2, so with 2 rookies at WR, we stand to improve even if we do nothing--which we won't/

You have done some homework!! Yep--no way Buffalo puts their starters on the field week 18--good point. As much as I hate to say it now, I do not see the Panthers winning another game--but they could upset Dallas here if they play the way they have been

I said the same thing earlier--imagine a rookie going to NE to follow Brady with BB as the head coach--spoiled fans, demanding coach, Brady's long shadow--worst conditions ever for a rookie QB. He is good enough to start in the right situation.

I cannot disagree with this---free agency does not have a lot of #1 WRs and those who will pimp themselves come with a huge price tag. I also think that bringing in another TE who can make plays is something people might be overlooking--but not in rounds 1 or 2. To your point: If you go back to camp, we gave up on TMJ, traded Mingo, lost AT to an injury, lost Johnson due to a permanent head injury (joke)--and we were left with an undrafted rookie, a raw rookie first rounder, and a special team player who has overachieved. We have 3 options--sign a high-priced #1 WR (and not many will covet Carolina); try our best to convert XL to that role and draft a Z WR, or draft either Hunter or McMillan to be the #1 WR, and I am not sure Hunter should be on offense. McMillan is a great red zone WR and runs the complete route tree with precision. He will be a good one. McMillan, XL, AT, Coker and maybe a lower-tier free agent would be impressive, considering only 1 of your WRs is not on a rookie contract-you could argue that McMillan would be effective day 1, when an edge might take a year--spend your money on the edge or DT, not WR. I see that logic. (Burden fans: I like him too, and he can probably do more as a WR than McMillan--sweeps, screens--he can do it all, but I wonder if he is a true #1 or best suited for a slot role? I wish I knew more about him--but if we trade back and grab him, I see the value--he might complement Young more than McMillan--don't know.) A DT like Graham would make our run defense ugly-good, and his pass rushing would make our edge players better. However, there are players later in the draft who would not be as big a drop off. I am not high on the edge players early (Carter is boom or bust to me), but I think round 2 has some players who will be good--but maybe not immediately. Concerning edge: If you wait until round 2, the pick we got from the Rams is about 50. According to Tankathon's big board, that is when you grab your edge--I do not see much difference here between the first rounders and second rounder in terms of production. To me, at edge you need a kid with a nonstop motor, and these guys are high motor players with productivity to match:

Why I think the Jags may not be picking in the top 5: They could run the table--but I do not know how you play these teams without 2-3 wins. If LV wins, it hurts their chances--I think the split with Tennessee, and beat the Jets at home-- Regardless, who knows? Bad teams are unpredictable. I see the first round of the draft going this way: 1. NY Giants (Saints and Colts are winnable games on schedule-but the Giants will be underdogs in both; predicted finish is 2-15) 2. Patriots (not winning another game--they have 4 to play; I am guessing 3-14 and they have a pretty weak SOS) 3.The Browns have 1 winnable game--@ Bengals, and the Cats will be favored. I predict that Winston is going to Winston--final record---3-14. SOS is weaker right now than Vegas 4. Raiders (Saints and Jags on schedule---A win would take Vegas out of the Ward/Sanders race. I think they could win 1; probably finish 3-14 5. Panthers could surprise some folks--here is why: They play Dallas at home and that is a possible win. They end the season at Tampa Bay--and then the last game of the season against the team that may have the division wrapped up---Atlanta. If so, they will play their subs, but it seems Tampa won't go away. Atlanta and Tampa Bay are currently 6-6, but the Falcons will probably lose to Minnesota and Washington, ending 9-8. Tampa has an easier schedule down the stretch, with probable wins against the Raiders, Cowboys, Panthers, and Saints. I think they win 3 or 4 of these, and that would prevent Atlanta from resting starters. Predicted finish: 4-13 because I think the Panthers will win one because they are improving, but Dallas is their best hope for a win (at home). It is possible that they do not win a game, but we are playing too well not to get a W in five chances. 6. NY Jets (Jax only winnable game left, but with Rogers, they could upset someone. probable 4-13) 7. Titans have 3-4 winnable games left on the schedule; expect 2 wins) probably finish 5-12 or so. 8. Jags have nothing but winnable games left--Titans x 2, Jets, Colts, and Raiders-Jax could run the table, but they won't. With Mac Jones, they could actually get a boost. Expect them to finish 5-12. TEAMS with 4 WINS Bengals the are the first 4-win team but they have 3 winnable games--they will finish 6-11 by winning 2 of 3 vs. Cleveland, Dallas, and Tennessee. The Saints (4 wins) have the Giants and Raiders left. They win at least 5, probably finish 6-11 The Bears have 4 wins and with SF, Minn, Seattle, Green Bay, and Detroit left, they may be headed for an 11-game losing streak to end the season. Yikes. Predicted finish, 4-13 THE DRAMA: 1. NY Giants--Ward, QB Miami 2. New England (TRADE with LV Raiders)--Expect the phone to be ringing with Vegas on the line and they will throw a ton at the lucky Pats, making it impossible for them to say "no". The Pats have needs at Edge, WR, OL, and CB--so they will want picks. However, if they trade, they probably lose Travis Hunter, so the price will be steep, and the Raiders will pay it to bring in a brash star to be the QB of the future. 3. Cleveland --With both QBs off the board, the Browns take the best player in the draft, Travis Hunter, CB/WR. 4. New England (from Raiders)--Hard to say, but they will be focused on Edge, CB, WR, and maybe OL. I am guessing they take the position that will be gone by round 2. A. Carter, DE/Edge 5. Carolina: With the top WR in the draft on the board, along with Graham, the top DT, I do not see an edge or WR worth this pick. I think they trade or they take Graham DT or McMillan WR. We need a #1 WR, and we are getting DT Brown back, so the choice is a toss up. If it were me, I would 1) trade back 5-10 spots and get both Edge and WR, 2) Graham, DT (can you imagine how awesome our front would be with Graham and Brown?) 3) McMillan WR. My pick is Graham, DT, Michigan. I think an edge like Boston College's Donovan Ezeirukau (80 tackles, 17 sacks) or a WR I really like--Elic Ayomanor from Stanford. My sleeper pick is Mike Green (edge, Marshall). Since Ayomanor is not a #1, I would take Exeirukau (BC Edge) That is how I see it now--but we should be picking around #5, and we know 3 players that are going off the board 1-3--Hunter, Ward, and Sanders.

Some things are immeasurable, and I get that. I used to break down film as a high school coach, and there was often disagreement. That is what they do--they give you a number to gauge a player's game. Until Billy Bob the Huddle Bitch comes up with a better assessment process, I will use PFF and not listen to the second shift experts who are only members because McDonald's has free internet.

amazing what difference a month makes--well said, FF.

In 2023, Corey Davis "temporarily" retired from the NFL. In March, 2024, he applied for reinstatement and was given his release from the Jets. He is under 30 right now, scored a 31 on the wonderlic (don't know why I added that) and had a few seasons near 1000 yards. He was never considered a #1 WR and commented that he was. Would he entertain the opportunity to mentor some young guys and Thielen and return to the NFL?

This tells me that edge may not be our first round pick--the draft just got more Wide Receiverey--Good thread NAS.

We need a #1--I get that, but in terms of the cap and looking for a bargain, I like to find a gem in the mud instead of paying top jewelry store prices. When I look at the options, one guy who I liked coming out of college and he is a "type" we really don't have, was just traded to the Falcons before the season and blew out his knee in camp. Rondale Moore. He will be 25 and had a 500 yard season at 22. Has not been in great places (Arizona, Atlanta) and he is the type of WR who could make plays--not sure what his recovery situation is. Higgins is my other answer, but he is not a #1 and will want #1 money, imo. Have not really researched it yet, so just speculating.

If I am not mistaken, we took Bryce because we pegged him to be cerebral, like Russell Wilson or Drew Brees. I think his first NFL pass was a pick, and then he started second guessing--which is OK when you have an OL and WRs and can get it done in 2.7 seconds. Lotta folks on here bashing Canales--but Young needed a patient, positive coach. I still hesitate to sing his praises, but the last 5 weeks have been amazing

I think I could like him (as a teammate) in small doses--but he is a unique individual

We do have some Huddlers, however, who are burdened with the pressure of always being right.