TD alt

@Seltzer, even if I concede that it was an "elite" drive, it's not like it was against an elite defense. It wasn't even against starters. Look, I'm not trying to take away from a good drive, but just try and keep things in perspective. I'm not ready to cape for anyone on the Panthers just yet. Consistency and being able to be halfway competitive are this season's goal, but the ultimate goal (just as important as winning a "chip" to me) is to be consistently competitive and consistently elite most if not every season.

Recency bias, huh? If 7-10 years is recency bias, then we have a different definition... Secondly, I don't gloat when my negative predictions turn out right. It just goes against my constitution to celebrate negativity---it makes no sense. Third, I don't generally make predictions anyway, I just discuss players and coaches based upon current happenings (or reality, if you will), wait for things to play themselves out, address the situation at hand, and have more discussions (wash, rinse and repeat). Sure, I will chop it up about hypotheticals and trade proposals, but this is a Panthers message board and engaging in discussion, including hypotheticals, is interesting to me. Otherwise what's the point? But making grand proclamations that this player sucks or this player is JAG is not my thing. Now if T-mac turns out great, or the unicorn that is his upside (in my opinion), or if Legette gets it together and is outstanding, or Renfrow makes the team and does his thing, then I'm not averse to an "I told you so." Now there are times when I absolutely go out on a limb, and absolutely against the grain. Years ago, when Mike Shula became the OC, within the first month of play, I posted to the effect that he was out of his depth. I said in so many words that he was given the keys to a Ferrari but running it like a Yugo. A little more recently, during the preseason that we acquired Philly Brown, I told people that Philly was JAG. I took heat in both circumstances (some still think Philly was special), but I feel that history proved I was absolutely right about both situations. Never once did I say, "I told you so," because honestly I took no glee in it, and when you're right in those situations, you really don't have to say anything anyway. Lastly, I don't really get your core point, because all I'm saying (along with some others) is that we're tired of hearing the same old rationale---some might call "excuses," every single preseason (and regular season, to be quite frank). Until there is definitive change that we don't have to guess about whether it's real or imagined, and until we see some longstanding consistency, progress and improvement, all this other stuff is just noise. Recency bias? "I told you so."

Hell, I've said it myself. Maybe if we say it long enough, the season will come when it actually means, in practical terms, what Panthers fans want it to.

Dude, we hear this same old sh¡t every year.

Still a greenhorn no matter how you slice it.

Where are the CliffNotes---the link? I think Morgan has done a decent job on paper---in theory. It's still too early for me to say anything with conviction. We think we think we think...We'll find out. I'm just not sold...yet. Most of these players may make the team, but will they be impactful players or simply average guys that will wash out in four years? I'm not inclined at this point to be so optimistic. The only thing that I can say with surety is that Morgan has raised the floor to an unknown degree. Is it with legit starter level guys? Maybe. Like I said, "good on paper---in theory. I'll be patient. The only move that I can say that I didn't like in hindsight (but I raised an eyebrow over when it happened) was drafting Brooks in the second. We lost an opportunity to draft an impactful LB or DB, when we already had Chuba (which I thought of more highly than most and said so). I think that patience is in order. I realize some of you believe that Tepper's the same old impatient owner, but I don't see Morgan going anywhere for at least more seasons. By then, we'll have more clarity about the efficacy of his draftees. I appreciate his efforts.

I mean, maybe if it wasn't an ass whipping... It really may not have been a bad thing, but it really may not have been a good thing either... I guess it all depends upon perspective, which is fine...but I was expecting---maybe crazily in hindsight---something a little more definitive. From one vantage point, we're making progress, but from another vantage point, we're the same old Panthers. I think that everyone can agree that since we are negotiating the monkey bars of perception about the Panthers' performance last night, we are certainly not where we want to be.

I think some of you are way overdoing the fact that he was hitting a helmet. Helmets are smooth, hell as a kid I used to literally hit brick walls with my fists to toughen them up. I also played tackle football on pavement on occasion coming up. I also got in little disagreements with helmets on. I'd hate it when guys would grab my facemask. In my thinking, they were using it as a crutch---a sneaky weapon in order to leverage against me and subdue me by placing me in an awkward fighting stance. I hated it when guys would hit my helmet. I'd feel the force of the hit and hear the thuds. I'd prefer not to have a helmet on and really get it on. X didn't use good judgement for fighting, but in football tempers flare sometimes. It's a teaching moment. He said that it wouldn't happen again, and it didn't happen last season.

I hope that you're wrong, but @kungfoodude told us that he doesn't expect a winning season until 2030. I'll just say this: I'm an old-head and still only reserve the "trash" label for actual trash, or for only the worst human beings that humanity has to offer. That being said, I was really disappointed with the defense's performance last night, but I've heard that some of last year's starters are now this year's depth, so I guess that we shouldn't be surprised.

I get why people present winner-loser threads and articles, because it stimulates discussion, but I'm guessing that we aren't going to find the real winners and losers until final cuts. But if you forced me to pick one winner and one loser based off last night, then Corey Thornton would be the winner, and Ejiro Evero would be the loser. Things have a way of changing though.

It sounds familiar to last season, but I'm fairly certain that it's going to be difficult to use the X hater playbook for T-mac.

Honestly we should probably be looking better than "OK." Is anyone feeling all giddy with excitement after that performance? Our ones faced their twos (and threes) essentially. We faced the Browns fourth string rookie QB, no Jerry Jeudy, David Njoku or Cedric Tillman (presumably their top three receiving options), they didn't have an RB anyone can name, and still we kind of struggled. I know that we had DB and Jaycee on ice as well, and X got ejected (but some suggest he's not good anyway), but it's not like we were facing their ones. I'm thinking that we'll win less this morning, not more, but "it was a preseason game" and this time of year I guess that hope springs eternal. If anyone wants to clown---last time I heard, Vegas had the Panthers at 6.5 wins, over-under---by all means take the over.

True, but let's be real: the two best players on defense weren't even out there, but the run defense (at least in the first quarter) was better than we saw all of last season, albeit against relative nobodies. As for the other quarters, we knew that depth was a concern, so it shouldn't be totally surprising that we got rolled up. I thought that Dalton would be way more effective.

Some are making a lot of noise about Legette lising his spot to Coker based upon being ejected last evening. I'll believe that when I see it. Legette didn't lose a thing but his temper.

I am not buying how McMillan's game was bad. Hell, the drop (not drops) wasn't even that egregious, it was a lack of timing between Tet and Bryce. It's a teaching moment during preseason. Viewed from another perspective, McMillan has 43 yards on five targets (and nearly a few more and a TD). It's not the perfect performance, but it's hardly bad in my opinion.

Well, I will say that I don't see how anyone can really feel good about the team's performance tonight. Of course I said there was literally nothing that they can do to get me excited during preseason. But there are things they can do to make me less excited. Shake my head.

Nah, they've really been icing him out. The only reason he is even getting this opportunity is because Pickett and Gabriel are banged up. The Browns suck for that. I even hate that he went there. But wouldn't it be something if he's the one that stabilizes the position (honestly since Brian Sipe, but maybe Bernie Kosar)?

No. That was X from a positional standpoint. Even on the big drop, he was in double coverage.

Well, I want to see what lame excuse the Browns use for freezing out Shedeur now. They look like the idiots that they have been.

I mean, not really. He's really never been the focus of defenses, but he did have two or three notable games, especially against the Cowboys. It's a different animal when you are the main focus of a defense.

XL was for all practical purposes our WR1. That's going to bring different personnel and pressures your way. All I'm saying is that it's still too early to make that type of determination.

I mean, you could be right, but you're claiming this when he's playing against twos and threes in against a squad that didn't have the best defense last year anyway. It would mean more if he was torching a highly touted first rate pass defense and even playing top-rated corners.

I'm thinking that we'll be OK if we can stay relatively healthy. If Jaycee goes down, we will have big issues.