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#46 YoungPanthers89

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 11:40 AM

Not sure yet. I am waiting to see who our new HC is before I decide.

I think JR hires another defensive minded run out the clock coach. If so, trade down for Fairley, pick up a second rounder and pick up best available WR. I am not so certain Moore or Clausen are not good enough to be game managers.


they arent

#47 AceMan

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 11:51 AM

If trading down is so important, why are we not advocating the firing of the guy who gave away our 2nd rounder?

#48 CarolinaCatBrigade

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 11:55 AM

Luck has to be the #1 pick, regardless of what you think about Clausen. He's to good to pass up. If Luck is there and we trade down I will not be buying any Panthers tickets for a very long time.

I can certainly see it.... With the 1st pick in the NFL draft.... the Carolina Panther select.... Billy Joe, DT (Made up name if you haven't figured that out).

"WTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


Good lord I can see Hurney screwing us over. Anyone else think he could?

#49 Ruff

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 11:57 AM

I think you HAVE to take Andrew Luck, no matter what. Even if you actually don't want him, once you select him, you put the pressure on the other teams.

#50 Erik Stall

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 12:00 PM

Luck has to be the #1 pick, regardless of what you think about Clausen. He's to good to pass up. If Luck is there and we trade down I will not be buying any Panthers tickets for a very long time.

I can certainly see it.... With the 1st pick in the NFL draft.... the Carolina Panther select.... Billy Joe, DT (Made up name if you haven't figured that out).

"WTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


Good lord I can see Hurney screwing us over. Anyone else think he could?


If Luck comes out there's no way he's not #1. If Carolina doesn't want to take him they'd be fools not to trade it for a king's ransom to someone who would. If they want Billy Joe the DT they can trade down a few spots and get him.

#51 Erik Stall

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 12:06 PM

I have to disagree again. There is only one team that is dominating based on the pass alone with a few .500ish teams mixed in. To win in this league you must be able to run the ball and stop the run.

ATL got exposed last night when Turner got shut down. NO got beat bad the week before when they couldn't run the ball. Steelers run the ball and stop the run. KC runs the ball and stops the run.

You can believe in Manning, Rivers, Green Bay, Houston all you want but not one of those teams is in the playoffs yet.

QBs that can air it out will often times get you on SportsCenter but the ones that win championships have great defenses and run games behind them.


Again, look at the QBs in the playoffs: Brady, Roethlisberger, Cassel, Manning, Flacco, Sanchez, Ryan, Cutler, Vick, Bradford, Brees, Rodgers. Now look at who they've got running the ball: Green-Ellis, Mendenhall, Charles, Addai, Rice, Green/Tomlinson, Turner, Forte, McCoy, Jackson, Thomas, Brandon Jackson. Yeah, you need to be able to run the ball but most of these teams don't have an elite runner, but they almost all have top QBs. In fact, if you flipped Schaub and Rivers for Flacco and Sanchez I'd say those are the top 12 QBs in the league. Can't say the same about those RBs.

#52 TheRealDeal

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 12:23 PM

The Patriots run the ball, but it is out of an almost spread offense. Brady throws the ball loads. Granted, they do play great defense, but they don't win by running the ball.

The establish the intermediate pass, loosen up the defense, then run.


I named them as the exception so I don't know what your point is.

Again, look at the QBs in the playoffs: Brady, Roethlisberger, Cassel, Manning, Flacco, Sanchez, Ryan, Cutler, Vick, Bradford, Brees, Rodgers. Now look at who they've got running the ball: Green-Ellis, Mendenhall, Charles, Addai, Rice, Green/Tomlinson, Turner, Forte, McCoy, Jackson, Thomas, Brandon Jackson. Yeah, you need to be able to run the ball but most of these teams don't have an elite runner, but they almost all have top QBs. In fact, if you flipped Schaub and Rivers for Flacco and Sanchez I'd say those are the top 12 QBs in the league. Can't say the same about those RBs.


You are just looking at name value alone and not production. I didn't say you need an elite runner but rather a run game. If you want to name your top 5 or so QBs in the league (without any order) it would look something like this:

Brady: The exception
Manning: Battling for a playoff spot despite his greatness
Brees: Just clinched playoff spot through spotty performance whole season but finally run game and run stopping showed up
Rivers: Missed playoffs despite being MVP candidate
Rodgers: Also battling for a playoff spot
Vick: Clinched division

1/3 of the top QBs in this league, legit elite QBs in this league, have clinched a playoff spot.

You can run through all the others and the common theme is they run the ball effectively and they stop the run. If they can't do that you've seen what happens.

#53 Erik Stall

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 12:36 PM

You are just looking at name value alone and not production. I didn't say you need an elite runner but rather a run game. If you want to name your top 5 or so QBs in the league (without any order) it would look something like this:

Brady: The exception
Manning: Battling for a playoff spot despite his greatness
Brees: Just clinched playoff spot through spotty performance whole season but finally run game and run stopping showed up
Rivers: Missed playoffs despite being MVP candidate
Rodgers: Also battling for a playoff spot
Vick: Clinched division

1/3 of the top QBs in this league, legit elite QBs in this league, have clinched a playoff spot.

You can run through all the others and the common theme is they run the ball effectively and they stop the run. If they can't do that you've seen what happens.


The Colts, Packers and Chargers have all been decimated by injuries this year. Those QBs have basically worked alone, and Rodgers has missed almost 2 games (both losses).

Top 10 NFL Rushing offenses:

1. Kansas City - Clinched
2. Oakland - Eliminated
3. Jacksonville - Out
4. NY Giants - Out
5. NY Jets - Clinched
6. Philadelphia - Clinched
7. Tampa - Out
8. Pittsburgh - Clinched
9. Houston - Eliminated
10. Atlanta - Clinched

Only 5 who have clinched anything and 3 of the top 4 are currently sitting outside the playoff picture.

Top rushing defenses:

1. Pittsburgh - Clinched
2. Chargers - Eliminated
3. Chicago - Clinched
4. Baltimore - Clinched
5. NY Jets - Clinched
6. Miami - Eliminated
7. Minnesota - Eliminated
8. Philadelphia - Clinched
9. Houston - Eliminated
10. San Francisco - Eliminated

Again only 5 of the top 10 have clinched anything. I see no correlation between being able to run/stop the run and success.

I named those guys because they're the best QBs. The best QBs don't always put up the best stats (See Orton, Kyle) but they lead their teams to the playoffs. Hence the need for a guy like Luck.

#54 mav1234

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 12:44 PM

having an elite pass attack opens up the run. having a great run game can open up the pass.

ultimately it's about balance on offense and defense - stopping the run, the pass, being able to pass, to run... one dimensional teams usually run into trouble barring superstars, so it's nice to have a balance.

that being said, most elite teams these days, even those built on the run, have a franchise or at least probowl quarterback at their helm. The days of the "game manager" qb seem to have gone away... even the stars know when to manage a game versus when to throw it all in.

edit: to the topic, I get it you don't really believe the hype, Zod. Just curious, have you watched him very much or read any of the scouting reports on him, or are you going just by his stat sheet?

Edited by mav1234, 28 December 2010 - 12:46 PM.


#55 Cavscout

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 12:47 PM

The Colts, Packers and Chargers have all been decimated by injuries this year. Those QBs have basically worked alone, and Rodgers has missed almost 2 games (both losses).

Top 10 NFL Rushing offenses:

1. Kansas City - Clinched
2. Oakland - Eliminated
3. Jacksonville - Out
4. NY Giants - Out
5. NY Jets - Clinched
6. Philadelphia - Clinched
7. Tampa - Out
8. Pittsburgh - Clinched
9. Houston - Eliminated
10. Atlanta - Clinched

Only 5 who have clinched anything and 3 of the top 4 are currently sitting outside the playoff picture.

Top rushing defenses:

1. Pittsburgh - Clinched
2. Chargers - Eliminated
3. Chicago - Clinched
4. Baltimore - Clinched
5. NY Jets - Clinched
6. Miami - Eliminated
7. Minnesota - Eliminated
8. Philadelphia - Clinched
9. Houston - Eliminated
10. San Francisco - Eliminated

Again only 5 of the top 10 have clinched anything. I see no correlation between being able to run/stop the run and success.

I named those guys because they're the best QBs. The best QBs don't always put up the best stats (See Orton, Kyle) but they lead their teams to the playoffs. Hence the need for a guy like Luck.


Great post!:yesnod:

#56 Actionman0z

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 01:01 PM

You can look at those teams who have been eliminated and plainly see the reason they were eliminated. Granted, stopping the run/and running the football are key components to winning, but so are turnovers and quality QB and Special Teams play. Its just the way the game goes. Atlanta has come back to win 5 games this year... Buffalo has lost 6 games by 7 points or less. One play, thats all it is. Atlanta lost because they could not get the ball back from the Saints. I would not call what the saints did on the ground last night effective.

#57 TheRealDeal

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 01:04 PM

I don't know where you got your numbers but they are wrong.

Again, I'm not saying you have to be top 12 in both categories to make the playoffs but the really good teams are good at both of those things (with few exceptions).

You just pointed out that 50% of the teams are in the playoffs with top 10 run games and 80% are in contention. You also pointed out 50% of teams have clinched in the top 10 at run stopping and 60% are in contention (in reality SF and Houston shouldn't count because they only have good numbers due to terrible pass defenses 24 and 32 respectively).

For comparision, top 10 passing offenses:

1. Indy - In contention
2. NO - Clinched
3. SD - Eliminated
4. Dallas - Eliminated
5 GB - In contention
6. Houston - Eliminated
7. Denver - Eliminated
8. Philly - Clinched
9. NYG - In contention
10. Wash - Eliminated

Only 20% of the top 10 has clinched and only 50% is in contention.

What would you take, 50% clinched and 80% contention or 20% clinched and 50% contention?

#58 TheRealDeal

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 01:07 PM

You can look at those teams who have been eliminated and plainly see the reason they were eliminated. Granted, stopping the run/and running the football are key components to winning, but so are turnovers and quality QB and Special Teams play. Its just the way the game goes. Atlanta has come back to win 5 games this year... Buffalo has lost 6 games by 7 points or less. One play, thats all it is. Atlanta lost because they could not get the ball back from the Saints. I would not call what the saints did on the ground last night effective.


It wasn't very effective and Brees didn't play that well. Stopping the run of the Falcons won them the game. Holding Turner to 48 yards on 17 attempts is big time. Ryan then looked like he had a Clausen stat line of 148 yards, 1 TD and a 5.1 YPA. I thought he was the next Brady?

#59 The Saltman

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 01:07 PM

thats one year. give me stats for the last 5 years and then we can agree on something.
:D just trying to make u do more work.

#60 pantherj

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 01:08 PM

Not sure yet. I am waiting to see who our new HC is before I decide.

I think JR hires another defensive minded run out the clock coach. If so, trade down for Fairley, pick up a second rounder and pick up best available WR. I am not so certain Moore or Clausen are not good enough to be game managers.


We do that and I'll go into a deep dark football depression. ALT and NO will sweep us for many years to come with Moore or Clausen at QB.


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