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Fundamentalist Christians are the Village Idiots?


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#31 lightsout

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HUDDLER

Posted 16 June 2012 - 10:38 PM

that doesn't even make sense... the problem then is the fundamentalists and others grouping people into their beliefs who don't actually believe what they do. The problem isn't religion there, the problem is grouping people into too broad of categories and drawing conclusions about the group. I also think you are smarter than to say "The world does it to Americans, I'm going to do it to Christians!" Are you saying you are no better than the average person in your ability to differentiate sides to an issue?



No. I was drawing a parallel to put it into perspective of what DOES happen. It's not a justification. The justification is that early on, all religion (and more specific to the conversation, Christianity) started out as a way to control people and TERRIBLE things were done in the name of those faiths. Eventually, Christianity was drug kicking and screaming into the 21st century and that issue is lessened to go along with the rest of society. I NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE. The conversation here is, you have fundies. You have moderates. They profess the same faith. When discussing how crazy fundies are and how they are a cancer to society, the moderates flip poo, as if we're talking about THEM. The OP video discussed fundies and how fundies are an issue. From that point on, when the word "Christians" were used, it was in reference to them. The title is the same, the things done by and in the name of that title is different. That is not my fault nor my problem.

#32 mav1234

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HUDDLER

Posted 16 June 2012 - 10:44 PM

You ARE talking about the moderates, holy hell. You have specifically said they are the problem, and you have also said that they belong grouped with fundies, need to change the name of their religion, etc... What I don't think you realize is if all the moderates in the world said, "okay we are Jesusians" or some poo, then there'd be some fundies coming along later on who would be like "YEAH MAN WE ARE THE TRUE JESUSIANS AND WE HATE EEVVVERYTHING DIFFERENT!" and people like you would go "oh yeah, I mean, that group was just based on Christianity anyway, so they should just change their name AGAIN!" and why? what the hell, just realize they are different and that more than one person can identify with a label without everyone under that fuging labeling being identical in what they believe.

I realize some of the people in this thread get all bent out of shape when fundamentalists get attacked (most of them are likely huge closet social conservatives that are actually fundamentalists) but sometimes your vitriol spills WAY past just fundies.

#33 lightsout

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HUDDLER

Posted 16 June 2012 - 10:49 PM

You ARE talking about the moderates, holy hell. You have specifically said they are the problem, and you have also said that they belong grouped with fundies, need to change the name of their religion, etc... What I don't think you realize is if all the moderates in the world said, "okay we are Jesusians" or some poo, then there'd be some fundies coming along later on who would be like "YEAH MAN WE ARE THE TRUE JESUSIANS AND WE HATE EEVVVERYTHING DIFFERENT!" and people like you would go "oh yeah, I mean, that group was just based on Christianity anyway, so they should just change their name AGAIN!" and why? what the hell, just realize they are different and that more than one person can identify with a label without everyone under that fuging labeling being identical in what they believe.

I realize some of the people in this thread get all bent out of shape when fundamentalists get attacked (most of them are likely huge closet social conservatives that are actually fundamentalists) but sometimes your vitriol spills WAY past just fundies.



I think we're agreeing here, it's just one or both of us is wording it in a way that is muddying the issue. The last paragraph makes me think that, anyway.

#34 mav1234

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HUDDLER

Posted 16 June 2012 - 10:52 PM

I think we're agreeing here, it's just one or both of us is wording it in a way that is muddying the issue. The last paragraph makes me think that, anyway.


In a general sense, but i'd never tell a liberal Christian church to stop calling themselves Christians because of fundies... since I realize that Christians can have differences in how they interpret their religion and how they act on it in their daily lives.

I usually like your posts, but it was the latest round about renaming their religion and stuff that annoyed me.

#35 NanuqoftheNorth

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HUDDLER

Posted 17 June 2012 - 12:44 AM

I would suspect there are fundamentalists in most if not all religions and denominations. The concern I have is the moderates by definition are often reluctant to challenge the fringe elements of their flock.

This behavior has provided tacit approval of radical religious political activity and encourages it to fester and grow when our modern society needs it to wither and die

#36 NanuqoftheNorth

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HUDDLER

Posted 17 June 2012 - 10:54 AM

Individuals that take the Bible's parables/fables literally are experiencing a textbook case of cognitive dissonance.

Once you dismiss scientific knowledge/facts for faith you create your own alternate reality.

It is extremely difficult to progress as a modern society when many of your members exist in an alternate reality; dismissing scientific knowledge/facts in favor of signs from disembodied deities and a book based on ancient oral parables/fables of tribal sheep herders.

If we were not talking about fundamentalist religions, this type of behavior would be enough to get someone committed.

Fundamentalists have a political impact that is much larger than their numbers alone would suggest.

Until the majority of the general population become more actively engaged in the political process, fundamentalists will be able to determine many of our societies' critical values/decisions.

#37 mav1234

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 12:52 PM

There are a great many Christians who do not interpret the Bible literally. Again, northeast bias etc... I realize things are different down south... but up here, the VAST majority of Christians don't interpret the Bible completely literally, and I have met a ton of 'em. I've been to at least half a dozen churches and only one featured an exclusively literal interpretation and it was by far the smallest... They also prayed to God to fix a broken projector and when some tech savvy guy plugged in a cable they started exalting and praising Jesus for his fixing of the machine. It was... very odd.

There are many Christians here who seem to be in the "God of the gaps" crowd. There is a church in Bennington that consulted with me for information on evolution, age of the earth, etc, for a Sunday school class since I have family who attend it but I personally am not a believer. The church members apparently think that God was likely responsible for abiogenesis, but that many of the principles and discoveries made in science are indeed the case. They were focusing on teaching a non-literal interpretation to the stories of the Bible, attempting to use them to teach messages about life and faith. Unfortunately the church did have to kind of release the rector they had that was a major liberal force, but that was because they couldn't afford a full time rector anymore I guess.

Anyway, I do agree with your last line, and I think that is the big thing. Usually the most venomous of people on both sides are those most engaged in the process.

#38 Cat

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HUDDLER

Posted 18 June 2012 - 09:43 AM

I was raised like this guys talking about. Funny stuff. Scary but funny, this guy is dead on.

#39 chris999

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HUDDLER

Posted 18 June 2012 - 11:35 AM

I would suspect there are fundamentalists in most if not all religions and denominations. The concern I have is the moderates by definition are often reluctant to challenge the fringe elements of their flock.

This behavior has provided tacit approval of radical religious political activity and encourages it to fester and grow when our modern society needs it to wither and die


This I completely agree with. Christians are overwhelmingly good people, especially if they live by the tenants of the New Testament. But man... especially while surfing the internet, I read people's comments and see see examples like "OMG, I am so happy that THE END is coming. The whole world is going to be destroyed... but I am so excited to get raptured!!!"

And I sit back and think to myself WTF? These people are programmed to just sit on their hands and do nothing, waiting for Jesus to return, instead of actually standing up to the corruption and greed that is causing this whole problem to begin with. They tell you that "there is nothing you can do, except sit and wait, and hope to be rescued before the real SHTF.

Unfortunately for the excited extremist religious groups, no kind of religious prophecies are coming true. I have researched the Book of Revelations for 20 years, and I have come to a convincing conclusion that it is just a Gnostic, 1st Century work of Christian fiction like other dozens of books in the style of Apocrypha (research the discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library that was discovered in 1945). I think that it was included in the Bible for political reasons, even though I know that people are going to flame the hell out of me for saying that.

The Nag Hammadi Library, a collection of thirteen ancient codices containing over fifty texts, was discovered in upper Egypt in 1945. This immensely important discovery includes a large number of primary "Gnostic Gospels" -- texts once thought to have been entirely destroyed during the early Christian struggle to define "orthodoxy" -- scriptures such as the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Philip, and the Gospel of Truth.



An Overview of the Nag Hammadi Scriptures

When analyzed according to subject matter, there are six separate major categories of writings collected in the Nag Hammadi codices:


Writings of creative and redemptive mythology, including Gnostic alternative versions of creation and salvation:<a href="http://www.gnosis.or...mm/apocjn.html" style="text-decoration: none; ">The Apocryphon of John; The Hypostasis of the Archons; On the Origin of the World; The Apocalypse of Adam; The Paraphrase of Shem. (For an in-depth discussion of these, see the Archive commentary on Genesis and Gnosis.)
Observations and commentaries on diverse Gnostic themes, such as the nature of reality, the nature of the soul, the relationship of the soul to the world: The Gospel of Truth; The Treatise on the Resurrection; The Tripartite Tractate; Eugnostos the Blessed; The Second Treatise of the Great Seth; The Teachings of Silvanus; The Testimony of Truth.
Liturgical and initiatory texts: The Discourse on the Eighth and Ninth; The Prayer of Thanksgiving; A Valentinian Exposition; The Three Steles of Seth; The Prayer of the Apostle Paul. (The Gospel of Philip, listed under the sixth category below, has great relevance here also, for it is in effect a treatise on Gnostic sacramental theology).
Writings dealing primarily with the feminine deific and spiritual principle, particularly with the Divine Sophia: The Thunder, Perfect Mind; The Thought of Norea; The Sophia of Jesus Christ; The Exegesis on the Soul.
Writings pertaining to the lives and experiences of some of the apostles: The Apocalypse of Peter;The Letter of Peter to Philip; The Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles; The (First) Apocalypse of James; The (Second) Apocalypse of James, The Apocalypse of Paul.
Scriptures which contain sayings of Jesus as well as descriptions of incidents in His life: The Dialogue of the Saviour; The Book of Thomas the Contender; The Apocryphon of James; The Gospel of Philip; The Gospel of Thomas.

This leaves a small number of scriptures of the Nag Hammadi Library which may be called "unclassifiable." It also must be kept in mind that the passage of time and translation into languages very different from the original have rendered many of these scriptures abstruse in style. Some of them are difficult reading, especially for those readers not familiar with Gnostic imagery, nomenclature and the like. Lacunae are also present in most of these scriptures -- in a few of the texts extensive sections have been lost due to age and deterioration of the manuscripts.
The most readily comprehensible of the Nag Hammadi scriptures is undoubtedly The Gospel of Thomas, with The Gospel of Philip and the The Gospel of Truth as close seconds in order of easy comprehension. (These texts were all also thankfully very well preserved and have few lacunae.) There are various translations of most of these scriptures available; the most complete being the one volume collection The Nag Hammadi Scriptures, edited by Marvin Meyer, and published in 2007. Translations provided here are based on the earlier edition, The Nag Hammadi Library in English, edited by James Robinson, published in 1970.


http://www.google.co...rK_jncDxjVZOzjw


The reality is that this just a bunch of pompous, self-righteous, elitist, manipulative, extremely wealthy, atheist-Zionist assholes that are batshit crazy, and I believe that they are creating this chaos as a WELL planned (for centuries) attempt at acheiving control of the Earth and (recently) population control... and they CAN be stopped.

(research Albert Pike and other Freemasons of the 19th century. Also research "The First Zionist Council)