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Post in this thread if you want to read and contribute to a thoughtful (if exhaustive) treatise on race and leadership in football

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Posted

Personally, I believe we are all born a blank slate (the Tabula Rasa) and our life experience write our personality. I think of genetics as soft spots in that slate, spots we have a predisposition to falter or succeed. If you were to take the majority of athletes- Black, White, Asian, etc....and insert them into the Manning household growing up they would come out more articulate and well mannered. Put them in that house from the day they are born. I read an article once that said poor African American children hear 5 million fewer words spoken by the time they reach Kindergarten. That is our children learning communication skills right there. That isn't genetics, it's societal.

Those debates are great. But what I seem to notice in all those debate is that people of African decent seem to be the center of all those 'debates'. What is so 'interesting' about Africans that people want to 'debate' about. Why not Mexicans or Asians? Because Africans are a mere 'minority' compared to all those other combined minorities. Also, why aren't Asians or Mexicans asking those questions or begging to be 'different'? Many Africans would beg to ask, why not analyze yourself and stop worrying about them? If you think you're so different, then enjoy a prosperous 'different' existence. And I repeat, how would you feel like if someone is always pointing their dirty, filthy fingers at you.

Now, regarding the debate of whether we're are all the same. Are we all the 'same'? I don't know the answer to that, but from what I have learned so far from our science is that we've all been affected by different environmental factors dating back to tens of thousands of years. We know Europeans and Asians lived in arctic environments while Africans lived mostly in tropical environments. Most scientist believe that had a strong effect on our physical difference. Scientist also believed that non-Africans went through a hybridization process with other non-'human' species. Again, did that have any effect on our physical differences? And to all those who begs to be 'different', well the answer is right in front of you. It seems to be the case. DNA research is in its infancy so we will find out more specifics later on.

The even tougher question, are you we satisfied with the level of 'difference'? In the lottery of being 'different', who is the winner and who is the loser? Interesting, eh!

Regarding the article stating poor African children hear 5 million less words by the time they reach kindergarden, well, that's bullpoo, there aren't 5 millions words in the English language. That's actually funny, I wanna meet a kindergarden kid who knows 200 words. Again, packing poo up to sell to the common idiots.

How many words are there in the English language?

"The Second Edition of the 20-volume Oxford English Dictionary contains full entries for 171,476 words in current use, and 47,156 obsolete words. To this may be added around 9,500 derivative words included as subentries. Over half of these words are nouns, about a quarter adjectives, and about a seventh verbs; the rest is made up of exclamations, conjunctions, prepositions, suffixes, etc. And these figures don't take account of entries with senses for different word classes (such as noun and adjective)."

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Posted

I have a friend who is mixed race. Irish and African. We are pretty close and he told me one time, with several shots of whiskey mind you, that it was pretty rough growing up cause he felt he had to act and communicate a certain way around certain people. He felt he had to act more black around black people and more white around white people for both races to like him. I found this really interesting and sad.

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Posted

Nice post, Phil. One criticism: "Treatise" is spelled with an 'e'.

For me, I won't go with anthropology. I'll go with anecdote.

I've mentioned before that my father was a rabid racist. He was also never around when I was a kid. Not because he was a deadbeat; just the opposite, he was always working. However, the upshot of that is that my dad wasn't that large an influence on me as a kid. The two people who were, my mom and my pastor, had not a racist bone in their bodies.

Now I came from a mostly white small town. The first time I actually met a black person, they were a pee wee football teammate. They also happened to be female. Honestly, I didn't like her, but not because she was black. It was because she was a wench.

A year later, I got a new black teammate, her little brother Antony. He and I became friends and remained both friends and football teammates all the way through high school. He even rode back and forth with me to practice, and we had a lot of fun on those rides.

Others came along later. A family moved from Africa - not sure which country - with two daughters who were around my age (how one journeys from Africa to West Virginia is a topic I've pondered often since). Later still, another family with a daughter moved in and she started dating a friend of mine. Another buddy made a big deal about it being okay. I pointed out to him that nobody said it wasn't, so he was arguing a point no one was making. Little did I know that would be good practice for internet message boards :unsure:

Still more friends came along when I went to college, including a close friend named Daniel who is, to this day, one of the smartest people I've ever met in person. My college dating life included some flirtations with girls of several ethnic backgrounds as well.

All of the above was a source of great disappointment to my father :(

Bottom line for me though: What I came to learn was that there were a lot more differences in communication stemming from where and how people grew up than there was their race. I also learned to judge people as individuals, not based on whatever ethnic group they came from. Every race has its good, its bad, its geniuses, its morons, its hateful, and its kindhearted.

Likewise, individual football players you judge on their abilities, for good or bad, not their race.

The one criticism I have, and have had for a while, is that college football tends to do a poor job of training athletic QBs (both black and white, but mostly black) to be the kind of passers they need to be at the pro level. So is there an imbalance in the pros? if so, it starts at the college level.

You want to fix the problems? Fix them at the source.

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Posted

all those those qbs have white girlfriends.....is that the problem with cam or no???

It helps make you look more "conformed" in some peoples eyes.

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Posted

all those those qbs have white girlfriends.....is that the problem with cam or no???

Only if you're Rob Parker.

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Posted

The one criticism I have, and have had for a while, is that college football tends to do a poor job of training athletic QBs (both black and white, but mostly black) to be the kind of passers they need to be at the pro level. So is there an imbalance in the pros? if so, it starts at the college level.

You want to fix the problems? Fix them at the source.

I think that might have been true as recently as 8-10 years ago. But if you talk to anyone working with the elite high school QBs these days it is changing, and rapidly.

You are not seeing as much of these guys who can only do one or the other. More and more young QB are guys like Johnny Manziel, Cam Newton, Kap, RG3, etc. These young QBs are quickly evolving into true dual threat QBs who run 4.3-4.6 40's and can throw the ball on a rope.

This will very quickly become the norm, or at the very least more prevalent. There will always be guys like Manning and Brady, but the pool of players that are strictly pocket passers are drying up very quickly and athletic QBs are quickly evolving into good to great passers.

This is a revolution that isn't going away anytime soon. NFL is always behind the curve in evolution of football because of old preconceived notions. But when it becomes apparent that something is working at a very high level, they adjust very quickly.

Two years ago no one ran the read option and pistol in the NFL. Already 4 teams have now adopted it as a major part of their offense. Expect that number to grow over the next 5-10 years.

And you know what, the NFL is better and more entertaining because of it.

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Posted

Your thread is well taken. I look at it this way. Say you guys were handsome as ever and well built, had the job of your dream and made big bucks. Evenmore is, no matter how much folks try to tear you down, things simply work out in our favor. That to me is how the media sees Cam and find any reason to keep attacking him. Their passive aggressive attitude cannot be over-looked

Let's be real, no one will ever say that RG speaks more articulately than Luck and it's a sign that RG is a better leader. And that' because there seem to be a unspoken belief that Luck is more intelligent and is set apart. Guess what, RG does speak more articulately than Luck, and those in the media slamming Cam for any dumb ish knows that. But, u know they will NEVER point that out. Also, if there is an audience that will buy any negative thing the media says about Cam,they will keep looking for anything about Cam they can pick apart to sell to them.

BTW, beingthe media's idea of a "team leader" is very over-rated, IMO, and has nothing to do with helping your team get to the SB, just ask Flacco. That should be your only concern when it comes to Cam. Are you doing everything you can to help him get the Panthers to the SB?

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Posted

I think that might have been true as recently as 8-10 years ago. But if you talk to anyone working with the elite high school QBs these days it is changing, and rapidly.

You are not seeing as much of these guys who can only do one or the other. More and more young QB are guys like Johnny Manziel, Cam Newton, Kap, RG3, etc. These young QBs are quickly evolving into true dual threat QBs who run 4.3-4.6 40's and can throw the ball on a rope.

This will very quickly become the norm, or at the very least more prevalent. There will always be guys like Manning and Brady, but the pool of players that are strictly pocket passers are drying up very quickly and athletic QBs are quickly evolving into good to great passers.

This is a revolution that isn't going away anytime soon. NFL is always behind the curve in evolution of football because of old preconceived notions. But when it becomes apparent that something is working at a very high level, they adjust very quickly.

Two years ago no one ran the read option and pistol in the NFL. Already 4 teams have now adopted it as a major part of their offense. Expect that number to grow over the next 5-10 years.

And you know what, the NFL is better and more entertaining because of it.

I'm not so sure.

At the college level, you can win games with one super athlete at quarterback and a team of half-decent guys surrounding him. And because of that, there are still a lot of coaches subscribing to that formula to the detriment of their QBs future employment.

The only two coaches I knew of who spent serious effort on trying to teach their athletic QBs to be just as good at passing as they were at running (Bill Stewart of WVU and Jim Tressel of Ohio State) are no longer coaching in the college ranks. If there's anyone else who's taken up that mantle, I couldn't tell you who it is.

Maybe someone else can.

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Posted

Just thought I'd add and this could be elaborated on:

ethnicity= social/biological

race= man made, synonymous with color

There can be never ending number of ethnicities but very limited number of race.

Only thing I sort of see differentley is that things like ebonics are unique to ethnicity and culture for purpose of identity. That may be true but I find it as an age thing mainly. I don't see it used really at all with older people signifying to me its a 'to be cool' thing rather than really being something of culture/ethnicity, it's most defienetley both but seems to me a lot of people 'gow out of it' whether they are articulate with words or not. Not just ebonics either, any kind of slang really, that's my experience.

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Posted

I'm not so sure.

At the college level, you can win games with one super athlete at quarterback and a team of half-decent guys surrounding him. And because of that, there are still a lot of coaches subscribing to that formula to the detriment of their QBs future employment.

The only two coaches I knew of who spent serious effort on trying to teach their athletic QBs to be just as good at passing as they were at running (Bill Stewart of WVU and Jim Tressel of Ohio State) are no longer coaching in the college ranks. If there's anyone else who's taken up that mantle, I couldn't tell you who it is.

Maybe someone else can.

I think that almost every coach tries to develop their QB into better passers. Not all of the QBs succeed in that endeavor and you will see coaches scheme around the QBs shortcomings.

NFL QBs, whether they are athletic or not, are rare. There is 119 teams and maybe 6 or 7 QBs get drafted a year. Most QBs aren't very good NFL prospects

My point was, that high school QBs that are coming through the pipeline are more and more athletic and can now throw the ball very well. More and more athletic QBs are developing at a younger and younger age. They are starting to look more and more like RG3 and Cam. There is also less and less of the traditional straight drop back pocket passer because so few teams are running an offense that caters to those QBs.

The pool of QBs that are dual threat QBs is growing and growing. The pool of QBs that are just drop back passers is shrinking and shrinking.

As far as coaches that try to teach QBs to pass just as well as run. Gus Malzhan, Larry Fedora, Dave Doeren, Kevin Sumlin (he is actually a pass first, and if you can run we will adjust type coach), and many more that run these types of offenses, want balance on offense. But sometimes players can't provide that balance so they adjust to their QB.

But I think all of them try to develop their QBs as passers as well as runners.

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Posted

Nice post, Phil. One criticism: "Treatise" is spelled with an 'e'.

fixed, good catch... i have no idea how i missed that

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Posted

I use too much shaving cream. I've been shaving for many many years and I've still not got it figured out! I wash a lot of shaving cream down the drain because I squirt more than I need into my hand.

No doubt. Yet the can still lasts for months. Perplexing.

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