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My case to why we should not take an OT at 14


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#46 SOJA

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:09 PM

not going to lie I expected a poorly thought out, zero support thread, so I gotta give you credit for taking the time to put effort into this chuck

#47 C47

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:11 PM

That doesn't make sense what you just said.
If we were picking based on BPA, we could go with a Jarvis Jones or Ansah than Lane. DE and OLB is just a need an OT. What would happen to Hardy? What if TD and Beason doesn't come back healthy?

Trust me, we're picking BPA. But, BPA at our "needs".


I never said Ansah was off the board. In fact, I think Ansah could be extremely intriguing to Gettleman because he already saw a similar player in JPP turn into a monster. Also, in what world after the middle of January is Jarvis Jones rated above Lane Johnson on a big board? Trust me I LOVE Jarvis' game being that he started out a Trojan, but Johnson is the higher rated prospect.....

#48 carolina-chuck

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:12 PM

Really genius??

You forget we had Jenkins Buckner Moorehead and Burton (pig farmer) backing them up and you would have drafted a DT???

Yep your opinion should be taking seriously.


Thanks for calling me a genius. (name calling again; please seek a therapist)

Read again bud, I said if I had to redo the 2003 Draft for next month (using the 2003 players for the 2013 Draft) based on our "needs" right now, I'd take Kevin or Troy. Get it or you want me to dumb it down even more?

#49 carolina-chuck

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:15 PM

I never said Ansah was off the board. In fact, I think Ansah could be extremely intriguing to Gettleman because he already saw a similar player in JPP turn into a monster. Also, in what world after the middle of January is Jarvis Jones rated above Lane Johnson on a big board? Trust me I LOVE Jarvis' game being that he started out a Trojan, but Johnson is the higher rated prospect.....


I don't care whos ontop of who. DE, OLB and OT are not Top5 needs. In your case of saying draft BPA for the future, if you have Lane in there, why not Jarvis or Ansah for the future? Get my point? They're not a Top5 need until next year.

#50 stratopanther

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:15 PM

So were the ratio of teams that drafted a wr in the first that much more successful than those who went oline?

#51 carolina-chuck

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:15 PM

not going to lie I expected a poorly thought out, zero support thread, so I gotta give you credit for taking the time to put effort into this chuck


Gladly appreciated

#52 carolina-chuck

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:16 PM

So were the ratio of teams that drafted a wr in the first that much more successful than those who went oline?


Do the research and lmk

#53 SIGCHI222

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:16 PM

If we draft Tavon, a lot of people gonna owe Chuckie some props.based on his damn sig alone. I remember a few touting Keek last year at this time. Just take the BPA at 14 and let the Don work his magic.

#54 C47

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:17 PM

I don't care whos ontop of who. DE, OLB and OT are not Top5 needs. In your case of saying draft BPA for the future, if you have Lane in there, why not Jarvis or Ansah for the future? Get my point? They're not a Top5 need until next year.


What part of "in fact, I think Ansah could be extremely intriguing to Gettleman...." doesn't sound like I have Ansah as a high draft consideration if he's there? Jarvis I have rated in the twenties due to spinal concerns, and questions about his ability to cover and play in space, so he would be below the 14th prospect on my big board and therefore not in consideration for the fourteenth pick....

#55 stratopanther

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:18 PM

Do the research and lmk


I say nay.

#56 LinvilleGorge

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:18 PM

I'm not saying we should draft an OT. I don't think we will simply because I think the three top OT prospects are likely to be gone by the time we're on the clock.

However, I am saying that we should take the BPA out of OL, DT, WR, and DB in the 1st round and likely the 2cd round as well. If one of those 3 OTs were on the board at #14, they'd almost certainly be the BPA out of those positions. Once you get past the 3rd round or so, pretty much everyone is just going pure BPA at that point.

#57 Ken

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:40 PM

Teh heck? Football is a team sport with many moving parts that all need to work in harmony to work well. Of course some parts are more important but you need each part to work together to function properly.

Think of the team as the human body. The brain is vital but if another part like the lungs is faulty that's a huge problem.

So my point is, all the pieces of the team are needed in order to win. So if you have the chance to improve the O-line you do it, whether that is at 14 or in FA...

#58 C47

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:40 PM

So were the ratio of teams that drafted a wr in the first that much more successful than those who went oline?


Ask and you shall receive....

2003
Detroit: 5-11 Joey Harrington
Houston: 5-11 David Carr/Tony Banks
Arizona: 4-12: Jeff Blake/Josh McCown

2004
Arizona: 6-10 Josh McCown
Detroit: 6-10 Joey Harrington
Jacksonville: 9-7 Byron Leftwich
Buffalo: 9-7 Drew Bledsoe

Tampa: 5-11 Brian Greise/Brad Johnson
Atlanta: 11-5 Michael Vick/Matt Schaubb
SF: 2-14 Tim Rattay/Ken Dorsey

2005
Cleveland: 6-10 Trent Dilfer/Charlie Frye
Minnesota: 9-7 Brad Johnson/Daunte Culpepper
Detroit: 5-11 Joey Harrington/Jeff Garcia
Jacksonville: 12-4 Byron Leftwich/David Garrad
Baltimore: 6-10 Kyle Boller/Anthony Wright
Atlanta: 8-8 Michael Vick

2006
Pittsburgh: 8-8 Big Ben

2007
Detroit: 7-9 Jon Kitna
Miami: 1-15 Cleo Lemmon/Trent Green/John Beck
KC: 4-12 Damon Huard/Brodie Croyle
New Orleans: 7-9 Brees
San Diego: 11-5 Rivers
Indy: 13-3 Manning


2008
None taken in first

2009
Oakland: 5-11 Russell/Bruce Gradkowski/Charlie Frye
SF: 8-8 Alex Smith/Shaun Hill
PHI: 11-5 McRibb/Kevin Kolb
MN: 12-4 Favre
NYG: 8-8 Manning
TN: 8-8 Vince Young/Kerry Collins


2010
Denver: 4-12 Kyle Orton/The Golden Calf of Bristol
Dallas: 6-10 Jon Kitna/Tony Romo

2011
Cinci: 9-7 Dalton
Atlanta: 10-6 Ryan

KC: 7-9 Matt Cassel/Tyler Palko/Kyle Orton

2012
Jacksonville: 2-14 Chad Henne/Blaine Gabbart
Arizona: 5-11 John Skelton/Kevin Kolb/Ryan Lindley
TN: 6-10 Jake Locker/Matt Hasselbeck
SF: 11-4 Alex Smith/Colin Kaepernick


Again, we're looking at this in a bit of a vacuum, ignoring factors like who was the QB, if the drafted player played significant snaps (see 2012 SF) etc.....

EDIT: Added the Quarterbacks because I feel it gives a better representation.....

#59 carpanfan96

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:42 PM

So were the ratio of teams that drafted a wr in the first that much more successful than those who went oline?


This is from 2009 - to now.

Positive results for both team and WR.

Atlanta - successful with Jones
Cincinnati - fairly successful with Green
Denver - Successful with Thomas
Dallas - Dez Bryant has been successful - team has been average.
SF - Crabtree and the 49ers have been successful
Vikings - Harvin and the vikings were off and on, but fairly successful with some play off berths.
NYG - Nicks and the Giants have been very successful
Eagles - Maclin and the eagles have had some early success.


Mixed bag
Tenn - Has two players in that time in Britt and Wright, one had a good season and then.... other too early to tell.

Negative

Arizona - not so much - Floyd
Jacksonville - not so much - Blackmon
Raiders - DHB - ouches times two.


Inconclusive -
SF - AJ jenkings didn't get a ton of opps. Last years draft.

I counted 6 good OT's during that span from 2009 with two being too early to tell from last year. So this is a possibility of 7 if not 8 starting NFL caliber LT or RT's from the past 4 drafts. 9 positive WR's with 8 teams being successful and having playoff berths Of the teams that drafted OT during the first 5 have been successful.


So WR's have more of an impact on teams then either a LT or RT via the draft over the past 4 drafts.

#60 carolina-chuck

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:42 PM

I'm not saying we should draft an OT. I don't think we will simply because I think the three top OT prospects are likely to be gone by the time we're on the clock.

However, I am saying that we should take the BPA out of OL, DT, WR, and DB in the 1st round and likely the 2cd round as well. If one of those 3 OTs were on the board at #14, they'd almost certainly be the BPA out of those positions. Once you get past the 3rd round or so, pretty much everyone is just going pure BPA at that point.


The only OL I wouldn't be mad at 14 would be Warmack and Cooper.


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