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Official Mueller Report Thread

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25 minutes ago, Harbingers said:

Also @CRA is absolutely right. Barr has perjured himself regarding the OLC. That’s enough to impeach Barr.

Dems and media always handle everything poorly. 

Barr was never challenged about the simple fact....how could he take it upon himself to whether Trump should be charged when his own guidelines prevented him from having the authority (just like Mueller). 

he also plays word games.  Like he didn't view it was Mueller's intent to punt to Congress.  Because he will just claim he interpreted it different and we never talked about that specifically.  Then he puts distance that there were people running the conversation back and forth  and he it was relayed to him Mueller viewed it as Barr prerogative to handle things how he saw fit.   Barr has actually already detailed how little info and clarification he sought....about "his baby"

Barr intentionally mislead everyone.  He will argue technically true statements based on selective word use as how he did it and play really stupid about what Mueller clearly spelled out.  But Barr, like most Republicans, has pretty well established he did not read the report.  Barr openly testified he didn't read the underlying info when asked.  Not sure he even said he actually read the report himself but will have to check.  He may claim his team did and he took their overall takes on the different sections as another means to distance himself and justify his misrepresentation. 

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4 minutes ago, ImaginaryKev said:

Did it take 60 pages for everyone to agree finally?

everyone doesn't agree.  Trumpers just now change the words like the Press Secretary just did.

Instead of Mueller said

It is the AG said, no collusion.  no obstruction. (the guy literally hired to do the cover up )

literally all Mueller said.  Is he could charge anyone with a greater conspiracy charge.  That's it.  And he went on to explain how obstruction can prohibit being able to get there.  

There was collusion.  There was obstruction.   Trump should be impeached for a variety of things.  He could be impeached just for acts w/ the Mueller report not even factoring. 

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Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is this:

Mueller isn't saying anything new outside of his report. He's saying that they couldn't exonerate Trump (but exoneration isn't really his job). He's saying he couldn't charge Trump because of DOJ policy and that Congress has to act to do that.

But Barr and Rosenstein said they asked Mueller if the DOJ policy was the thing that was stopping him from charging Trump and they say Mueller said several times it was NOT the reason. Is that the part where Barr lied to Congress? That should be easy to resolve by someone just asking Mueller that right?

What I think should happen is that the House should start impeachment proceedings today. I think today's presser was the momentum that weak Democrats needed to feel comfortable moving forward. Not sure why they've waited but I think they should start the process. Also think it's a solid idea to ask Dem candidates what they think about all this (most probably agree about impeachment) and what they would do to Trump after he leaves office. But they could easily punt on that question saying that you can't prejudge the results of the impeachment proceedings.

I think this is the beginning of the end for Trump.

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Interesting how Mueller even brought up that even a sealed indictment could not be brought against a sitting president, as if the special counsel's office debated doing just that.

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23 minutes ago, Moorgan said:

What I think should happen is that the House should start impeachment proceedings today. I think today's presser was the momentum that weak Democrats needed to feel comfortable moving forward.

Nadler is calling for it to start.  Even Pelosi stated its "not off the table".   So hopefully we finally have movement.

 

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@Moorgan

Basically correct. There is now an official statement contradicting what Barr said. As such he lied/perjured himself and should have impeachment moved against him and charges brought by the DOJ. 

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3 minutes ago, Harbingers said:

@Moorgan

Basically correct. There is now an official statement contradicting what Barr said. As such he lied/perjured himself and should have impeachment moved against him and charges brought by the DOJ. 

I'm willing to bet semantics will save him and prevent all that from happening. I'm not interested in getting specifically him or not. I want anyone that did something wrong to be out. If he did...then get him. If he tiptoed the line, ugh, fine lets move on. Bottom line is that it seems clear to me that Trump committed impeachable offenses (maybe not actual crimes) using the criteria of Graham from the Clinton impeachment. Therefore the House should do it's due diligence and then whatever the Senate does they do. I'm not interested at this moment about putting Trump in jail or what happens after. It seems like a clear line has been crossed using the standards of Lindsay Graham and that the procedure should start. Simple. I literally think it's their duty.

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17 minutes ago, Moorgan said:

I'm willing to bet semantics will save him and prevent all that from happening. I'm not interested in getting specifically him or not. I want anyone that did something wrong to be out. If he did...then get him. If he tiptoed the line, ugh, fine lets move on. Bottom line is that it seems clear to me that Trump committed impeachable offenses (maybe not actual crimes) using the criteria of Graham from the Clinton impeachment. Therefore the House should do it's due diligence and then whatever the Senate does they do. I'm not interested at this moment about putting Trump in jail or what happens after. It seems like a clear line has been crossed using the standards of Lindsay Graham and that the procedure should start. Simple. I literally think it's their duty.

He stated under oath on the record of the senate the OLC had nothing to do with Muellers choice not to charge Trump(IE: making trump look less criminal). Mueller said today his entire investigation was based on the OLC and he wouldn’t have charged the president even if crimes had been brought forward and charged. 

Thats perjury, that’s what landed Cohen in jail. If it isn’t pursued it’s setting a precedent that public officials are above the law. 

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42 minutes ago, Cary Kollins said:

Interesting how Mueller even brought up that even a sealed indictment could not be brought against a sitting president, as if the special counsel's office debated doing just that.

and in the report and presser he specifically brought up being unfair.....and you don't worry about that nor discuss it if you have a nothingburger.  You bring up that again, because Trump is deserves to be charged.  

Mueller just isn't the guy who could.  POTUS has to be dealt w/ by Congress not DOJ.  And Mueller again, confirms he has all the actions freshly documented for use later when he isn't POTUS. 

anyone who says Mueller hasn't put impeachment on a gold platter is delusional. 

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8 minutes ago, Harbingers said:

He stated under oath on the record of the senate the OLC had nothing to do with Muellers choice not to charge Trump(IE: making trump look less criminal). Mueller said today his entire investigation was based on the OLC and he wouldn’t have charged the president even if crimes had been brought forward and charged. 

Thats perjury, that’s what landed Cohen in jail. If it isn’t pursued it’s setting a precedent that public officials are above the law. 

I agree but I'm willing to bet that he's going to say he misunderstood Mueller when he spoke to him or some poo. Like he will and maybe did use very precise language that tip toes the line legally to get out of it. That's what I think will happen. But him using that specific language could show intent to mislead but that's for Congress to decide I guess or maybe a judge. Either way, I don't want the pursuit of Barr to distract from the duty of Congress to impeach Trump. I'd like to think they could and should do both if appropriate but I don't have much faith in them.

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1 hour ago, Moorgan said:

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is this:

Mueller isn't saying anything new outside of his report. He's saying that they couldn't exonerate Trump (but exoneration isn't really his job). He's saying he couldn't charge Trump because of DOJ policy and that Congress has to act to do that.

But Barr and Rosenstein said they asked Mueller if the DOJ policy was the thing that was stopping him from charging Trump and they say Mueller said several times it was NOT the reason. Is that the part where Barr lied to Congress? That should be easy to resolve by someone just asking Mueller that right?

What I think should happen is that the House should start impeachment proceedings today. I think today's presser was the momentum that weak Democrats needed to feel comfortable moving forward. Not sure why they've waited but I think they should start the process. Also think it's a solid idea to ask Dem candidates what they think about all this (most probably agree about impeachment) and what they would do to Trump after he leaves office. But they could easily punt on that question saying that you can't prejudge the results of the impeachment proceedings.

I think this is the beginning of the end for Trump.

I think Barr's phrasing positions the question was the DOJ policy literally the only thing that made you not indict Trump.  So if there was anything else Mueller pondered? Barr views that as then truthful statement he made. 

Barr is a master of this stuff.  He earned the title of coverup Barr long ago.  He literally did all this before.  Why he earned the nickname.  Because he tells partials truths and leaves out all the rest in order to tell a completely different narrative. 

 

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same w/ Mueller's initial letter saying Barr was misrepresenting the investigation. 

Barr pics out one true statement.  Leaves out all the rest to paint a different narrative.  Like when he got the letter.  He then focused only on the fact he called Mueller when he received it. He then literally only mentioned the fact the press was a topic that came up.  Barr left out everything that was in the letter, everything they discussed.... and only spoke about one thing he spoke to Mueller about.  The press.  So Barr intends to paint the narrative Mueller was only unhappy w/ the press was actually what Mueller meant. 

Misrepresentation w/ a technically true statement.  He simply omits all the ways Mueller felt he was misrepresenting things and shared one truth that paints a certain narrative.  That Mueller only was displeased w/ the media covering it despite the initial letter prompting the phone call stating otherwise. 

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This was Mueller politely asking to not be rolled into a Congressional hearing. Not out of fear, but because (as he said) his report is his testimony. Every thought and action in regards to the investigation he headed is in the report. There's nothing left for him to say. This press conference was to answer the questions he'd get asked in Congress if brought there and to plainly state, straight from his mouth, what the Republicans are misrepresenting or are misinformed on. 

Not an exoneration. Not in his power to indict a sitting president per his agency's policy (directly contradicting Barr who said recommending charges is the job of Mueller). Laid out, very plainly, that there WERE obstructive acts committed by Trump and members of his team in regards to the investigation. 

All of that he is now verbally on the record saying. It's not up for interpretation. None of it shocks most of us because we all knew it because we read the report or we listened to people who quoted directly from the report. Either way, the republicans can try to spin this all they want but the facts are the facts.

Dems have a short window here to act. Longer you wait now that Mueller has spoken, the more power you give Trump to spin this as "see, they know they can't do anything". 

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