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Doc Holiday

About this Cam Newton leaving talk...

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1 minute ago, jfra78 said:

Theres no way in hell Cam sits out next year. He has to play at least 6 games to accrue a season, so if he sits out he will still be under contract. You let him play on his current contract and work on an extension during the season if he is truly healthy

Assuming you're correct (and I have no reason to doubt that your aren't), that answers that question. LOL!

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Beat a dead horse much? I’m just gonna sit back and see what happens because it pays zero to worry about it.  

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Just now, jfra78 said:

Theres no way in hell Cam sits out next year. He has to play at least 6 games to accrue a season, so if he sits out he will still be under contract. You let him play on his current contract and work on an extension during the season if he is truly healthy

You assume he's willing to do that, and further assume his agent is willing to let that happen.

If I'm his agent, my answer to anyone asking him to play out this next season as a "prove it" year involves telling them to jam something in a certain orifice.

 

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Just now, Mr. Scot said:

You assume he's willing to do that, and further assume his agent is willing to let that happen.

If I'm his agent, my answer to anyone asking him to play out this next season as a "prove it" year involves telling them to jam something in a certain orifice.

 

He has to play 6 games to accrue a season.  

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15 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

No we don't. I'd probably feel differently if we had the #1 overall pick, but with a likely mid-1st rounder you absolutely do yourself no favors reaching out of desperation on a QB if the right guy isn't there.

I didn’t say reach for one. I think we will still have a first half pick. I say that with the intent of drafting a good potential QB still on the board. Obviously if one isn’t there, I would not reach. 

Aaron Rodgers was picked at the bottom of the first round and sat on the bench. Mahomes was #10.  I’m not saying to reach but find your guy and try to get him. And that should be a QB but not at the expense of reaching or trading away the future. You’re not always going to have the number one overall pick when you need to draft a qb. You have to have a competent FO and the right people in place to make it happen.
 

 

Edited by onmyown

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Just now, Mr. Scot said:

You assume he's willing to do that, and further assume his agent is willing to let that happen.

If I'm his agent, my answer to anyone asking him to play out this next season as a "prove it" year involves telling them to jam something in a certain orifice.

 

I mean he’ll make 22 million if he plays this next season. If he sits out he gets nothing. Like others have said I’m not sure what the rule is as far as if we retain the rights to his play if he sits out a year. And then at that point will he even get another long term extension from another team after essentially playing 10 games in 3 years and after 3 surgeries? his camp will have to think about that as well. 
 

we could just straight up cut him. But I’m not even sure that’s worth it. It’s worth the 1 year risk to see if he can remain healthy for say 6 games then sign him to a longer term contract mid season. 
 
there’s a ton of moving parts to this.
 

 

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4 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

He has to play 6 games to accrue a season.  

How many games did it take him to get injured this season?

You're asking Newton to basically assume all the risk of his getting injured with no guarantees coming from the team.

And if he does get injured, do you think the Panthers are going to say "oh, no problem, we'll still pay you anyway". (and this with David Tepper in charge)

Hell, why would the Panthers be okay with him the idea of him playing just six games so he can say "Thanks guys. See ya!" afterward? How is that a good scenario?

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1 minute ago, onmyown said:

I didn’t say reach for one. I think we will still have a first half pick. I say that with the intent of drafting a good potential QB still on the board. Obviously if one isn’t there, I would not reach. 

Aaron Rodgers was picked at the bottom of the first round and sat on the bench. I’m not saying to reach but find your guy and try to get him. And that should be a QB but not at the expense of reaching or trading away the future.
 

 

If you're saying we HAVE to draft a QB in the 1st then you're saying reach if the right guy isn't there.

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2 minutes ago, TheRumGone said:

I mean he’ll make 22 million if he plays this next season. If he sits out he gets nothing. Like others have said I’m not sure what the rule is as far as if we retain the rights to his play if he sits out a year. And then at that point will he even get another long term extension from another team after essentially playing 10 games in 3 years and after 3 surgeries? his camp will have to think about that as well.

we could just straight up cut him. But I’m not even sure that’s worth it. It’s worth the 1 year risk to see if he can remain healthy for say 6 games then sign him to a longer term contract mid season. 
 
there’s a ton of moving parts to this.

But is it worth the one year risk to Newton?

And if there are indeed teams who will even so much as offer him a two year deal for more than what he gets in one year here (which there likely will be, and his agent will know if there are) then what's his incentive to play out a one year "prove it" deal here and risk his future?

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If the team grants Cam an extension before hiring a new GM, the necessary size of the contract and the uncertainty of Cam’s health combine to create a huge negative for any potential GM hire. Think about it: If you’re the GM who takes that job you will never get credit for any good performances he has because you neither signed nor drafted him, but you will be saddled with his contract and have to deal with the consequences if things don’t work out. It’s all downside no upside for you. For that reason I don’t believe Tepper extends him before hiring a GM.

Any such incoming GM has little motivation to sign Cam for pretty much the same reasons.

Now let’s look at the potential downside. There is pretty much no chance with his injury history that allowing Cam to continue past the age of 30, which he will be, with a play style that includes running like a tank makes sense. That means any future success he has is dependent upon not only a full recovery from multiple significant injuries, one of which affects his throwing arm, but also transitioning to more of a traditional pocket passer without relying on his feet as a threat to create options.

That is a tall order to gamble 30 million per year in cap space upon, which I guessing is the bare minimum his services would cost. If the bet pays off, yes, you have a rare franchise qb for some number of seasons going forward, but how many? And at what cost to the cap if he’s good for 2 more but you had to prorate a huge signing bonus over 5 and his body won’t get him even halfway there? Is the team in a position to get him a ring in whatever time he has left?

If we put all our chips in on that scenario, for how many years does it set us back if it doesn’t pan out?

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6 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

If you're saying we HAVE to draft a QB in the 1st then you're saying reach if the right guy isn't there.

I’m saying that believing the right guy will be there. As I said, we will have a top half pick. You’re saying only if you had the first overall pick. There are plenty of great QBs playing now that we’re not picked at the very top.

I am not saying just pick one just to pick one. That would be stupid. It also may not be as simple as drafting one. It may take more than one draft, and more than one QB pick to get the right guy. That’s why it’s important to have competent people making the picks.

QB is the Panthers biggest and most important need right now. If you go into the season with Cam as your only option it’s risky. And I’d rather the second option not be some jag to get us to 8-8 but someone with potential.
 

Edited by onmyown

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1 minute ago, onmyown said:

I’m saying that believing the right guy will be there. As I said, we will have a top half pick. You’re saying only if you had the first overall pick. There are plenty of great QBs playing now that we’re not picked at the very top.

I am not saying just pick one just to pick one. That would be stupid. It also may not be as simple as drafting one. It may take more than one draft, and more than one QB pick to get the right guy. That’s why it’s important to have competent people making the picks.

QB is the Panthers biggest and most important need right now.

Believe all you want, but at the end of the day you either have to trade up to get your guy or simply tight and wait to see how the board falls.

Take a look at this list and see your odds of getting a legit NFL starting caliber QB with a mid-1st round pick. It's certainly not impossible, but it's highly unlikely.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_starting_quarterbacks_in_the_National_Football_League

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I get that people don't want this to happen. That's perfectly understandable. This is not the ending anybody envisioned for Newton when he was drafted and rose to prominence here.

But you've gotta consider that for the scenarios you're asking for to play out (i.e. Newton finishing out his existing contract as a "prove it" year) you're asking Cam to put his future earnings potential at a very high risk. If you look at the situation objectively, is that really what's best for him?

Say you want the Panthers to extend him and I'll ask again what I've asked before. If you saw any other team in the league offer a big money extension to a quarterback that hasn't been healthy in three years and who's potentially suffering from lingering shoulder issues, would you applaud that decision?  Doubt it. Heck, you'd probably point and laugh.

I'm sorry folks, but if you look at where things are without emotion, Newton staying here just isn't a logical choice for him. And extending him isn't a logical choice for the Panthers.

Yeah, it sucks, but what can you do?

Edited by Mr. Scot
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2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Believe all you want, but at the end of the day you either have to trade up to get your guy or simply tight and wait to see how the board falls.

Take a look at this list and see your odds of getting a legit NFL starting caliber QB with a mid-1st round pick. It's certainly not impossible, but it's highly unlikely.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_starting_quarterbacks_in_the_National_Football_League

I have no problem with the Panthers trading up to get a guy if he’s believed to be the one.

Unfortunately, as of now the one that makes that call is also the one who tried to trade up for Jimmy Clausen.

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the extension isn't a big deal. he doesn't have much leverage right now as the market will probably also only offer him prove-it deals.

wrangling up a two or three year deal that's backloaded and heavily incentivized without an abundance of guaranteed money gives him the chance to get paid if he's able to perform and the team the ability to trade or cut him if one or both parties decide that's how they want to go.

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