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MHS831

Why the Panthers might Draft Herbert

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1. If we draft Herbert, we miss out on a top OT or Brown.

2. If we don't draft line first round, we have to then take shots on later round guys, who might not be better than what we have.

3. It signals that we are done with Cam (even if we keep him for the last year of his deal) because we drafted a top-10 QB

4. It also means we are out on Trevor Lawrence next year.

Seriously, this team has many needs. QB is not one of them.

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12 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I don't want my franchise quarterback to be introverted

please don’t breed

i beg you

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2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

One read dink and dunker. Maybe he's capable of doing more, but that's what he did at Oregon.

This isn't even close to true. Peep any scouting report, or watch some yt highlight videos and you can see him go through progressions. This is commonly highlighted as strength of his.

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A lot of people/fans aren't giving Hertbert enough credit. 

That's fine. 

Anybody whom says he's not a natural leader, haven't watched him play at all. 

Anybody whom says he's a 1 read and throw guy, hasn't seen him play his entire college career. 

I'm not going to sit here and say he's going to be the next great franchise QB. 

I'm also not advocating that he be drafted by the Panthers. 

I just know I wouldn't be disappointed at all if he was added to the team, even in the first round. 

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19 minutes ago, Rags said:

This isn't even close to true. Peep any scouting report, or watch some yt highlight videos and you can see him go through progressions. This is commonly highlighted as strength of his.

Strange. I keep reading in practically every draft profile that he locks in on receivers and has trouble reading the field.

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2019/12/06/2020-nfl-draft-justin-herbert-scouting-report/

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he has shown struggles with forcing throws and being unable to consistently read the field.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/justin-herbert/LxuIchvcDl

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Has a tendency to stare down receivers.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/justin-herbert-nfl-draft-profile-2020/

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Herbert’s forced throws also hint at another issue: the Ducks’ passer is fairly raw, mentally. Herbert shows little consistency with anticipatory throws, and while he offers some flashes of smoothness with progression work and coinciding pocket manipulation, those instances are few and far between. It sometimes seems like Herbert doesn’t always have an actionable understanding of what he’s looking at in real-time, as he can lock on to receivers, abandon the process of the play, and rely on his physical traits instead.

https://www.dynastynerds.com/justin-herbert-draft-profile/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=justin-herbert-draft-profile

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The other issue comes from Herbert tending to stare down WR’s at times. I am one of the analysts who believe part of this was the offensive scheme though. Regardless this is something that will need to be improved upon as NFL safeties and cornerbacks will feast on him if he doesn’t look them off and stares down his targets, regardless of how good his arm is.

https://thegamehaus.com/nfl/justin-herbert-2020-nfl-draft-profile/2020/01/24/

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Herbert doesn’t always make it through all of his progressions. At times, he locks on to his primary target without making any other reads. Other times he makes a read or two before tucking the ball and running. He rarely reads the whole field, which will hold him back in the NFL if he doesn’t improve.

 

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41 minutes ago, Rags said:

This isn't even close to true. Peep any scouting report, or watch some yt highlight videos and you can see him go through progressions. This is commonly highlighted as strength of his.

I've watched a lot of his actual games. Watch those instead of highlights and you'll see it.

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We don’t need a qb we have cam . He gives us the best chance to win we don’t need some system qb that never did anything special in college . No way ! 

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3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

One read dink and dunker. Maybe he's capable of doing more, but that's what he did at Oregon.

Yep

i look at Herbert and I see a Blaine Gabbert 

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3 hours ago, MHS831 said:

snip

1. Agreed with the uncertainty, though Cam being a question mark as an NFL starter when guys like Mark Sanchez were starting instantly calls credibility into question for the rest of the analysis. He's clearly showed that he can be a starter, and even when hurt he can outperform most starting NFL QBs. The previous contract also appears to be pushing a narrative that I think you deep down know is doo doo: his current contract doesn't work for a rebuild? He only has 1yr left on it. We're not rebuilding on that contract and operating under the sense that he'll get a similar (or higher paying) one afterwards without even seeing the status of his health is incredibly premature imo.

2. Another bad narrative being pushed here: There is nothing showing that a fully healthy Cam does not have the wheels he once had. What we do know, is that the prior coaching staff encouraged Cam to sit in the pocket and eat hits in order to finally start getting penalty flags. Rather than being able to better protect himself while running (as Cam has stated), he's been asked to sit and get his teeth knocked out. There is nothing wrong with building around a 31-yr old QB. If it's okay to build around a kid that's a 21yr old unknown because he was drafted during Rhule's tenure, then it's okay to build around a man that's spent nearly a decade in the league as one of it's best players. This isn't an 40+ year old Manning/Brady. Cam still has zip on his passes and better mobility than a majority of other QBs.

3. There is no guarantee that the #7 pick is going to nail the QB of the future, nor is there any better chance next year of being in place to find one. Even so, why not build the rest of the team so that when it is time to move on from Cam at whatever point in the future, we're bringing somebody into a situation where they have protection and weapons to help ease their transition into the pros? Maybe provide them a defense as well?

4. Preach! Between Moton, Little, and Daley I just can't see the team drafting another OT high... especially with Marty still having input on the roster (somebody correct me if I'm wrong on that pls, afaik he's still part of the roster building). The Panthers, historically at least, typically don't take any of the guys that they interview at these things. Know when we see them? Over the course of the next 2 - 4 years as free agents... it's incredible. Dorian Johnson is one example. I'm not sure if this is a Hurney thing or just an odd coincidence. Due to that, I'm less inclined to see players being interviewed as targets as much as I am seeing the positions that they looked at being a sign of what they're evaluating (and any early prospects are either jumping out to scouts on tape OR are part of a position group where we might not get a potential superstar but will have a by-committee approach). Regarding the additional campaigning for Herbert, we'll be fine. We took Jimmy Clausen and then almost immediately turned around to draft Cam. If there is a need to address with an immediate starter, we'll look for them in the first two rounds.

5. I don't think the Panthers drafting Will Grier was exactly a secret during the last draft. This bullet conveniently ignores recent history.

Edited by Icege
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2 hours ago, Happy Panther said:

I've read those too, but also i've read others as well.

https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2020jherbert.php

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Strengths:

 

  • Field vision
  • Stands tall and steps into hits
  • Ability to work through progressions

https://nflmocks.com/2020/01/05/2020-nfl-draft-scouting-report-herbert/

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Decisions & Progressions: Generally, a good decision-maker. Some deficiencies were masked by the offensive system at Oregon this last year. A few times a game he makes a decision that leaves you scratching your head but there are more positives than negatives.

Herbert understands coverages and reads the field well generally. Quick throws and screens at Oregon were run in abundance this last year and that makes reads easy for Herbert. It might take a bit of development to fine-tune his decisions. Progressions are below average. Never tasked with many reads beyond his first or second.

https://nflmocks.com/2019/10/29/2020-nfl-draft-justin-herbert-scouting-report/2/

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Complimenting these intermediate and deep throws, Herbert’s vision beyond hook-zone defenders is extraordinary, able to identify holes in zone coverage behind defenders and place a perfectly dropped ball into the hands of his receivers. This kind of vision creates new areas of the field that safeties need to now bite on, and this only creates more opportunity for levels concepts on deep posts and bench concepts.

Downfield, Herbert has shown a strong ability to progress from read to read on advanced levels and flood concepts, which are extremely popular among NFL coaching staffs and is a strong sign for future success in the NFL. Many young quarterbacks get stuck on a single read, but not Herbert.

It is somewhere between "he can't" and "oregon's system didn't call for him go through his reads often." , something even a few of those reports say,. He has show the ability to go through his progressions.  Which is a lot more than a lot of QBs do, hell even some in the NFL now (Goff)

 

One thing you can say is that he takes risks he probably shouldn't off these reads, probably because of his arm strength, but to say he just locks on to his receivers is not true. 

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2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I've watched a lot of his actual games. Watch those instead of highlights and you'll see it.

I've watched quite a few of Oregon's games too, I namely last season when he was considered to be the #1 overall pick for a bit, haven't watched much this season, or much CFB, and have relied on highlights.

Oregon's system was often one read, but unlike some other Oregon QBs he went through his progressions often enough. My point with the highlight video is you could see his head move in these videos. It's not like he's an all pro at it or anything, but he's ahead of most QBs some previous drafts in that regard. Tua definitely has him beat in that regard but, also, his lower body injuries scare the fug outta m.e

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6 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I dont want my franchise quarterback introverted

OK.

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6 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

One read dink and dunker. Maybe he's capable of doing more, but that's what he did at Oregon.

I know--and Oregon QBs have a long history of busting. 

I always look back to see what scouts said about players--with the success rates of drafted players, they should shut their damn mouths:

“He can thread the needle, but usually goes with his primary receiver and forces the ball to him even when he’s in a crowd. He’s a gutty, gambling, cocky type. Doesn’t have great tools, but could eventually start.” – Anonymous scout, 1979

Herbert has the great tools, and Joe Montana had the cockiness/charisma.  Similar comment.

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