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MHS831

Why the Panthers might Draft Herbert

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1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

I normally agree with you, but we don't know for sure where we will be picking next year.  This is not an endorsement for Herbert as much as it is a discussion of a Panther option. If you take away the concerns and biases from Herbert, you are left with a pretty impressive skill set on a perfect QB frame.  The toy may be crap, but the packaging is awesome.

Herbert is a good player. I just have concerns with his scouting reports mirroring Blaine Gabbert’s in 2011. And honestly, I really would rather fortify one of our lines (preferably DL) in R1.

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36 minutes ago, raz said:

i have no idea how herbert will turn out.  big positive is he's really smart.   side note is i've never seen a tighter spiral.

That is a good point. I used to catch passes in college, and one thing about college is, as you climb the depth chart, you catch passes from a lot of people.  There is a difference.  I once figured (due to the drops) that Cam's passes were hard to catch, but I realize that the timing was off.  Here is what I mean.

Ever notice how WRs have their inside leg forward?  That is so the WRs can plant the correct foot--inside routes are usually 3 (slants), 5, (drags and posts) or seven (digs) step patterns, making the odd numbered step the plant foot.  Likewise, a sideline route becomes a 4-step process.  So if you think body positioning and separation, the ideal time for the ball to arrive is on an even numberered stride out of the break.  For example, if you are crossing the middle from left to right, your first step is going to be the one out of the break, shoulders and head not likely looking at the QB.  That first step is planted with the foot toward the QB--not ideal to catch a ball that soon out of the break across your body-but the next step is when the foot toward the endzone (away from the QB) is either being planted or planted--your torso opens toward the qb and the ball needs to be arriving through that window.  It is easier to see, catch, and run after the catch is more likely.  This differs by route. The back leg also helps protect the ball from a big S hit, helping the WR to hold onto the ball.  This is what I learned in college and during my year at clinics coaching HS WRs for one year. 

That is why they say getting the QB "off the mark" is so important.  It disrupts the timing and forces the QB to throw at a less ideal time for the WR.  Cam gets moved off the mark a lot, and when he does, his completion rate goes way down. The OL was not his friend.  Furthermore, if you have the cannon arm, you tend to use it to force late packages to arrive on time--causing the pass to sail because the feet are not in position. 

All that to say this--if we give this guy time and he throws a tight spiral (easier to see the nose--the part of the ball you catch), then we would all see improvements in completion percentage and yards after catch.  A tight spiral is also a sign of a confident QB, letting the ball go with purpose and when the feet are properly set--when the timing is right. 

I am not trying to sound like a know-it-all; to me, this is a fraction of what the pros know--but I like hearing others with tidbits and tips from their experiences.   This is simply the way I learned it, and I thought I would share.

Edited by MHS831
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22 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I dont want my franchise quarterback introverted

quit quoting the whole mother fuging OP

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24 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Herbert is a good player. I just have concerns with his scouting reports mirroring Blaine Gabbert’s in 2011. And honestly, I really would rather fortify one of our lines (preferably DL) in R1.

The thing that bothers me?  Oregon's QB hall of fame:  Names like Akili Smith, Joey Harrington, Marcus Mariota...the last success they had was probably Dan Fouts.

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There is no chance we draft a QB it is a ridiculous notion at this juncture.

Say we do draft Herbert .. so that's a 3rd and a 1st on QB in the past two drafts .. so we handcuff ourselves in next years draft .. we can't take a QB in the most talented QB class in quite a while because we've already taken Grier and Herbert .. *barfs*

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23 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I dont want my franchise quarterback introverted

Like your micropenis?

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Another thing is .. Herbert will be, what, the third best QB ?

We will be in position to draft probably the best WR .. the best DT .. the best CB or best DT .. and we will draft the THIRD BEST QB ?

No chance, man

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35 minutes ago, (ATL'ien)CamNewton said:

There is no chance we draft a QB it is a ridiculous notion at this juncture.

Say we do draft Herbert .. so that's a 3rd and a 1st on QB in the past two drafts .. so we handcuff ourselves in next years draft .. we can't take a QB in the most talented QB

An unbiased testimonial.

Did we draft Cam after taking a QB in the 2nd round the year before?

Do you think a 3rd round QB means we are "all in?"

When you say, "There is no way..." were you aware that there is a way?  Do you know that many experts think he will be traded?   In fact, 2 that are closest to the Panthers think so.  Jordan says there is a 50% chance he is QB next year, Person says 15%.  

You are a hugger.  This is what you huggers do.  You cannot help it.  Hugging kills objectivity.  Hugging makes you silly at times because you just want to hug all the time.

Your bias creates erroneous assumptions--that become facts.  So your theory, based on unproven, unsupported assumptions (like the notion that we will be in position to draft a QB next year and that that Herbert is not as good as they are) is idealistic.  Furthermore, you endorse putting the QB issue off a year so Cam can redeem himself.  Maybe the team, with medical info and a new system, does not want that? You have to stop using emotion to make hypothetical business decisions--you have to look beyond 2020.

Edited by MHS831
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2 hours ago, Carl Spackler said:

Herbert is a good player. I just have concerns with his scouting reports mirroring Blaine Gabbert’s in 2011. And honestly, I really would rather fortify one of our lines (preferably DL) in R1.

I see that and agree.  If we trade Cam, we add a second or third rounder and cut $20m.  Of course,  I have heard draft day trade---but who knows.  At any rate, the extra pick could be an olineman,.  If we add OL depth in the second round, for example, and Little/Daley step up, and Paradis leg gets stronger----could we be OK?  Hard to say and a lot of IFs.

Herbert will bust without a very good OL.  That is nearly a given.

Edited by MHS831

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31 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

An unbiased testimonial.

Did we draft Cam after taking a QB in the 2nd round the year before?

Do you think a 3rd round QB means we are "all in?"

When you say, "There is no way..." were you aware that there is a way?  Do you know that many experts think he will be traded?   In fact, 2 that are closest to the Panthers think so.  Jordan says there is a 50% chance he is QB next year, Person says 15%.  

You are a hugger.  This is what you huggers do.  You cannot help it.  Hugging kills objectivity.  Hugging makes you silly at times because you just want to hug all the time.

Your bias creates erroneous assumptions--that become facts.  So your theory, based on unproven, unsupported assumptions (like the notion that we will be in position to draft a QB next year and that that Herbert is not as good as they are) is idealistic.  Furthermore, you endorse putting the QB issue off a year so Cam can redeem himself.  Maybe the team, with medical info and a new system, does not want that? You have to stop using emotion to make hypothetical business decisions--you have to look beyond 2020.

The Panthers, Cam's camp, would not have agreed to do that Super Bowl week interview with CBS if Cam was not in the plans moving forward.

Cam said he spoke with the Front Office, everybody is on the same page. Cam is the QB. We get to see Joe Brady with Cam. You are wrong.

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People, man. If you demand Cam being back, damn, get off his jock, start caring more about the team and winning!

Cam being back is by far the best chance we have at being a dominant team for the next five years.

 

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Did people learn nothing from all the back and forth Grier hype and the discussions here about "drafting a QB because we have to" last year?

Some of these posters just want us to draft one because they want Cam out the door.

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2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

People have reservations about this and that, but if he has a year, he can be coached up.  He has the skill. Burrow?  the only difference is the team around each player.  LSU was so good, they could always have a balanced attack.  Both had pretty good OLs. 

So you have to look at the skill set--and Burrow has nothing on Herbert---but they are both good.  I love Herbert's height, athleticism, arm strength, etc. He also has more experience starting than Burrow. 

 

Yeah I am really skeptical of Burrow. But, supposedly he has very high intangibles. If that is the case, I think he will be able to overcome his physical limitations....as long as he has a system that plays to his strengths. Best case he is Drew Brees 2.0, worst case he is Derek Carr/Andy Dalton. Honestly, not a terrible floor at all. 

Herbert has an extremely high ceiling but a much lower floor.

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1 minute ago, TheRed said:

Did people learn nothing from all the back and forth Grier hype and the discussions here about "drafting a QB because we have to" last year?

Some of these posters just want us to draft one because they want Cam out the door.

You get a lot of flack .. but you never lie.

It's absolutely ridiculous here. Absolutely ridiculous.

The utter disrespect for Cam, who is going to have a better next five years than Mahomes, is pathetic.

Watch and see. When Cam wins this franchise multiple rings nobody here will be able to celebrate. This place wanted that QB out the door. Save a few posters.

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42 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

You are a hugger.  This is what you huggers do.  You cannot help it.  Hugging kills objectivity.  Hugging makes you silly at times because you just want to hug all the time.

Pot meet motherfuging kettle. At least he isn't demanding we sign Cam Newton to a huge contract just because we can unlike someone we know :Eyes_Emoji_42x42:

 

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