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hepcat

Can someone with more time and access to information do a comparison of timeouts/delay of game penalties for me?

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Back when Cam was the starting QB, it seemed like at least once or even twice a game the team would have to burn a timeout or take a delay of game penalty because the playclock was running out of time. It happened twice in a row against the Rams in Week 1 last year due to what appeared to be a helmet issue, but that was obviously not the first time that happened.

I felt like that team almost never burned timeouts for this situation when Kyle Allen was starting. Can someone run a comparison to maybe Cam's 14 games in 2018 to Kyle's 14 games in 2019? 

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why cant you do it

 

edit:

the answer to my question is literally in the title

Edited by The Huddler

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I have no access to numbers but I do recall being frustrated by this Cam’s entire career but being unsure whether it was Cam or play calling. When we switched to Norv and it continued to be an issue I began to suspect it was something Cam managed poorly but that the coaching staff obviously wasn’t addressing with him.

When Allen was forced into action and the issue seemed to decline markedly despite his relative inexperience, that seemed to me confirmation Cam tended to struggle with getting the play off at times. Never really understood why either. Guy clearly knows his playbook, isn’t inexperienced.
 

My two cents is that anecdotally I got the strong impression Cam was the common variable, but as to why, I haven’t the foggiest.

Edited by 1of10Charnatives
  • Pie 3

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they simplified the offense for kyle allen and got the play calls in quicker because they understood the liability they had under center. there's a reason cam would be visibly upset and at times even yelling at the sideline when we burned timeouts or took delay of game penalties. coaching staff was filled with dumb dumbs

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like rivera's whole philosophy was to slow things down and win time of possession. he thinks winning TOP is more important than winning on the scoreboard. shouldn't be surprising at all to see that attitude translate into penalties and wasted timeouts

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7 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

they simplified the offense for kyle allen and got the play calls in quicker because they understood the liability they had under center. there's a reason cam would be visibly upset and at times even yelling at the sideline when we burned timeouts or took delay of game penalties. coaching staff was filled with dumb dumbs

This is no worse than plausible. I do recall Cam being visibly frustrated at times over such issues.

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3 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

they simplified the offense for kyle allen and got the play calls in quicker because they understood the liability they had under center. there's a reason cam would be visibly upset and at times even yelling at the sideline when we burned timeouts or took delay of game penalties. coaching staff was filled with dumb dumbs

Very possible this is the case.

I will say that we often times had to burn a time out after a long Cam run on more than one occasion. I have no problem with a quick first down point/dab/whatever, but when Cam would take 10-15 seconds to celebrate the first down, he was wasting time off the playclock and preventing the rest of the offense from getting set for the next play. 

Again, no issue with a little sauce, but when the dude responsible for setting the rest of the offense up for the next play is doing his own thing and wasting time off the clock, it gets frustrating, especially when a TO is burned. Those TOs kill momentum after a big play. 

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7 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

like rivera's whole philosophy was to slow things down and win time of possession. he thinks winning TOP is more important than winning on the scoreboard. shouldn't be surprising at all to see that attitude translate into penalties and wasted timeouts

I’m inclined to agree with this because I had a similar premise by that point in Cam’s career but the thing that doesn’t line up with this notion is that they would still have wanted Allen to run the play clock down, but I noticed he was often getting the play off with much more time to spare. It seemed odd to me because I’d have thought they’d have told Allen to hold his snap til 5 seconds or less, giving him that much more time to look at the defensive formation against him and prepare mentally for the play.

I find the whole subject to be a bit of a head scratcher.

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19 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

they simplified the offense for kyle allen and got the play calls in quicker because they understood the liability they had under center. there's a reason cam would be visibly upset and at times even yelling at the sideline when we burned timeouts or took delay of game penalties. coaching staff was filled with dumb dumbs

I would think this would be a more plausible explanation.  That and with Kyle they would have had simpler pre-snap reads and adjustments, whereas Cam would be required to process alot more info at the line.

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11 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

I’m inclined to agree with this because I had a similar premise by that point in Cam’s career but the thing that doesn’t line up with this notion is that they would still have wanted Allen to run the play clock down, but I noticed he was often getting the play off with much more time to spare. It seemed odd to me because I’d have thought they’d have told Allen to hold his snap til 5 seconds or less, giving him that much more time to look at the defensive formation against him and prepare mentally for the play.

I find the whole subject to be a bit of a head scratcher.

allen wasn't making presnap adjustments though so you then have to weigh the benefits of allowing allen time to look at the defensive alignment presnap vs allowing the defense to get a longer look at the offense and using movement to confuse allen. im of the belief that it was probably best if allen didn't think about things much. snap the ball, hit your one read and let them work after the catch. keep things very simple for him.

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3 minutes ago, Wes21 said:

I would think this would be a more plausible explanation.  That and with Kyle they would have had simpler pre-snap reads and adjustments, whereas Cam would be required to process alot more info at the line.

Yeah I always thought it was great for Cam early in his career to have a Pro Bowl caliber center to lean on for help with checks at the line etc. As his career progressed it became less vital as he grew and learned and became a vet, and from all accounts he tried to help Allen in the meeting and film rooms, but only so much you can do. At some point the new guy has to do it for himself.

I just don’t really get the heavy emphasis some HC’s put on TOP. Back in the stone ages when pro football players sold cars or insurance during the offseason it probably conveyed a bigger advantage but today’s NFL players are athletes who have been perfecting their bodies year round since puberty with million dollar facilities and top flight professional trainers and dieticians at their disposal. It makes me dubious that TOP can still result in a game deciding fatigue advantage. Keeping the ball away from a potent quick strike offense maybe.

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I think it was likely a mix of coaching not being quick with the play call, and sometimes Cam's natural speed in which he does things.

Some guys break the huddle and rush to the line, some guys take their time and want to see who is on the other side before getting up there, Cam liked for the team to be heading back, then he would rise off his knee and take his time.

I think it was just playing style, AND poor offensive coaching, by the time Norv took over, I"m guessing he probably just said whatever, I can win with this style either way, and I'm not going to try to change a 7 year vet who was an MVP.

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10 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

allen wasn't making presnap adjustments though so you then have to weigh the benefits of allowing allen time to look at the defensive alignment presnap vs allowing the defense to get a longer look at the offense and using movement to confuse allen. im of the belief that it was probably best if allen didn't think about things much. snap the ball, hit your one read and let them work after the catch. keep things very simple for him.

True. This makes sense as well. KISS for the rookie.

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