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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/article/4-standouts-week-1-panthers-180005523.html

Point taken, but he has to learn. I'd say that he certainly had problems with drops, but I don't remember any fumbling issues. He's young. I don't know that he was talking about thinking about improving while he's literally playing, as much as he's thinking about improving catching before regular season begin. The good thing about the Jugs machine, and any type of practice, is that it leads to muscle memory, which of course leads to not having to think about playing, but just playing. We'll hope for the best.

I mean, I think that we've been using them, but, like you're suggesting, maybe to a higher degree now. I would caution though to not take it out of context. It's simply a tool. The importance of it and its priority can't really be judged by us from the outside looking in. On kind of an off note, sure PFF (CFF) had Bryce ranked as the highest rated QB when he came out, but I heard a PFF analyst say that "stature" was very important in the discussion between Young and Stroud as well, and honestly he didn't know that Young would or should be the first taken. Context and the bigger picture hav to be taken into account.

Trying to do anything I got to? I don't like the way he says that. I want him to work out, but the more I learn about him, the more he seems to just not have that elite mindset. Would love to be proven wrong. On the last highlights from camp I watched, he still wasn't tucking the ball correctly to run. He adjusted, but I want that type of thing to be automatic, not something he has to think about.

Which is all I was saying from the get.

The bad thing is that Xavier Legette kind of ignored the Jugs machine his rookie season. The good thing is that he's committed to it now. Catching is important to an NFL receiver (sarcasm), but, perhaps just as important is a receiver's---any player's---mindset. "This offseason, the young wideout has gotten back to something in terms of preparation (Jugs machine). 'Oh man, it’s always been something I’ve done, and I don’t know why, but I felt like I could take a little breath,' explained Legette (via Darin Gantt of Panthers.com). 'And when you’re playing in this game, you can never do that. It’s always a way to get better, and that’s one of the ways to help with catching. For sure, for sure. In my mind, I’m thinking about ways, things I can do. What can I do to have less drops this coming season in Year 2? 'The whole mindset has changed, man,' added Legette. 'Trying to do anything I got to. I’m sacrificing a lot of things that I used to do outside of the building to put my work inside the building.'" https://www.si.com/nfl/panthers/xavier-legette-focused-on-reducing-drops-that-plagued-rookie-year-with-panthers-01k1692c0tz9 So, yeah, it wasn't good coming in taking some things for granted, but Legette is young. His mentality appears to have changed and he appears to be maturing and he's been putting in a lot of work by all accounts. I know some of you are down on him, but I still have faith. Last season was a disjointed mess in its entirety, but there were still some flashes, particularly with route running. With Legette's seemingly better fit as the WR2, mindset and focus---doing his actual job catching the ball---he should be able to improve. Lastly, I'd like to add, props to Legette for being so open about the need to improve and change his mindset. Some guys wouldn't necessarily admit that publicly. If nothing else, he's honest and down-to-earth.

It is worth noting the fanbase has long held a love hate relationship with PFF over the years. Now that we are employing some of their people and actively using their data in our roster building approach going forward this should serve as the end all be all to any debate. This is either going to end really well or really bad. It's the Panthers. So save your energy and give it some time.

And to be honest, we weren't really talking about PFF grades either. I brought it into the conversation via a pic that's LLM-related (which apparently some Huddlers took issue with) as an aside for providing more specificity than just sheer numbers

If their grading system is based upon stats, then...but keep on splitting hairs, as it suits your narrative.

They use stats to create the basis of their grading system but the stats based on the outcome of the plays (that aggregate into what we football fans call "stats") are not incorporated into the grade. That's the best I can do in terms of explaining this to you. I've tried, every link from PFF has tried, yet you just keep on keeping on. LOL

PFF uses the term "context normalized-scoring," which is based upon statistics. Hell, any serious metric or analytic systems are based upon stats and expectations, and looks at what players do against those expectations, but If you don't think that stats play any part in a players grades, be wrong. At the end of the day, it's heady anyway, so everyone is not going to understand everything. I'm done with this conversation for now. But just know, it's OK to be wrong.

It's hilarious watching you crash out while being completely wrong. Every link you posted regarding player grades specifically told you that they aren't incorporating stats into these grades, that it's based on their evaluation individual plays. That sent you scouring the internet where you came back with soccer grades as some type of gotcha before you shifted to pass protection grades where you misunderstood that they were using stats to create the basis of their grading system but not in the actual actual creation of the player grades. Pointing that out sent you back to the internet to dig some more where you came back with their "Advanced Coverage Grade" metric which is separate from their player grade.

It's a piece of information. Yeah, I would expect the PFF guys to know how to use the tool they created.

PFF uses these metrics in player evaluations, and use those to come up with player grades. It's NOT separate. My god!

I never said that it was "the greatest player evaluations tool," but it is a tool. You have to know how to use the tools, so...obviously PFF guys should know how to do that.

That's separate from their player grades which is what we were talking about. But good lord this is way more important to you than it is to me and I don't really care to keep reading through the links you're desperately digging through to try to find anything to support your dear PFF. At the end of the day, I hope you're right and I hope PFF is the greatest player evaluations tool ever crafted because it sure seems like Tepper is building an analytics team that he could've just gotten with a $120 subscription.

They're explaining it, but they're still using stats, just within the context of their system. Damn, man.

You're full of it. Stats are fundamental to their system.

Which they're just using to explain how they developed their grading system. The stats have nothing to do with the way they grade a play which they explain by showing two gifs of two separate plays with different outcomes but the same PFF grade. Are you even reading this stuff before you link it? The statistics or the outcome of a play has nothing to do with a player's PFF grade for that play. They tell you that over and over in every link you post. It's literally an arbitrary system that they came up with to create a framework for grading player performance.

What are all these? Could they be stats? Coverage Metrics Several standard metrics are commonly used to evaluate players' effectiveness in pass coverage. These include passer rating allowed, yards allowed per coverage snap, completion percentage allowed and PFF's 0-100 coverage grade. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-advanced-coverage-grade?utm_source=chatgpt.com To say that PFF doesn't use stats in its grading is simply incorrect, period.

Statistics is such a broad term, but PFF has to use them to some degree. They just have their own measurements and grading systems which incorporate some statistics in their grades.

You're right, but they also use stats in the NFL per my last post, as you're so obviously trying to deny.

Pass-Blocking Stats PFF collects many stats that help define each block. https://www.pff.com/news/pro-how-pff-grades-pass-protection?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Dude, that's a page talking about their soccer grades.

Oh Jesus, my inlaws live about 10 minutes from Legoland and I'm gonna be down there in a week. Yeah, not looking forward to it but honestly it ain't any colder here at the moment so you're not missing out. Honestly, I just don't pay a whole lot of attention to PFF grades. I just enjoy poking fun at the people who view them as gospel. Hell, at the end of the day, I hope they're right. Because all evidence is that David Tepper is one of those guys.