tukafan21

I actually could see a scenario where Greg makes a lot of sense as our HC (although I'm not exactly advocating for it). I also don't know if they could convince the coaches to buy into it either, but as a fan who isn't pleased with them firing Reich because of the level of HC I think we can get now, there is one scenario I wouldn't hate. Basically Greg goes into the job knowing he's a 1 season filler to bridge us to the next offseason when we can attract a new HC, partially with our 1st rounder to replace Bryce. The other half of it is that he's really there to provide a re-set to the franchise's mentality, which I think he actually would succeed at, on field success aside, especially as I think he'd bring guys like Luke or TD into the fold in some way as well. Keep Evero and Brown as the DC and OC here as well, so he basically is more of a figurehead and leader of men than anything. If we shock the world and he's some amazing HC, then you can give him another contract, but if not, it bridges the gap until we can attract a legitimate HC candidate and it would help get us back to the "Keep Pounding" mentality that this franchise has lost over the last few years. Again, I'm not saying I want this, but if (or more accurately when) we can't get anyone we actually want, it wouldn't be the worst fall back situation in the world as it avoids hiring someone crappy and needing to fire them after 1 season again. Basically what the Raiders are doing with Pierce right now, although he has actual coaching experience so it at least makes more sense.

Is he though? They do a great job scheming up easy throws for him to complete, but he's not a QB who is completing tough passes into tight windows and winning with his pin point accuracy. He's also only 20th in YPG this year, with only 2 games all season where he's thrown for more than 237 yards, and only 13 passing TDs in 12 games (he's also not racking up the rushing yards like in the past, he only has 5 games over 45 yards with only 1 game over 62). He is 29th in accuracy rating, 26th on deep ball accuracy, 28th on deep ball completion percentage, 28th on deep ball catchable pass rate. He is 29th and 27th in accuracy rating vs man and zone respectively, yet he is also 8th and 7th in completion percentage vs those coverages respectively. Which means he's completing a bunch of easy passes and/or his WRs are catching bad passes. To me, Lamar is a better and different version of Brock Purdy, someone who's success is more about the coaching staff and the team around them than their abilities as a QB. He's racking up mediocre passing stats based on scheme and short passes with YAC, not passing ability, there is a difference. I think Lamar is a picture perfect example of where people conflate and have a hard time separating fantasy output vs real life abilities.

I mean, you still seem to miss the point. It's not about whether he's elite or not, because yes, anyone can see he has an elite level impact on the game when he's in there. But the best ability in the NFL is availability, and he hasn't been able to finish the last 2 seasons. I just don't like his long term potential, solely due to that I don't see his body holding up for more than another year or two before it completely breaks down on him. Think of him like an elite RB in today's game, once they get into their late 20's, their effectiveness starts to seriously wane because they just can't take the pounding their bodies take. Sure, there are the outliers who fight through it, but they're usually built like a tank to withstand the beating. Lamar is no tank, he's more like a motorcycle than even a car, one crash and he's in serious trouble. And there is zero chance in hell that he is able to adapt his game to become an elite pocket passer, he just doesn't have that in his game, once his running game is taken away from him, he'll be an average QB at best.

I don't hate Lamar, I have no feelings towards Lamar. I'm just able to objectively look at a player who is built the way he is, plays the way he does, hasn't been able to finish either of the last two seasons, struggles as a pure passer, and have serious concerns about how he'll hold up long term in this league. We literally watched it happen to our own QB who was actually built to withstand having that type of game. He was fine for a number of years, then once he started to get dinged up, they quickly compounded on top of each other and he went from elite to out of the league in just a few years because his body completely broke down. Lamar couldn't finish his 4th or 5th seasons due to injury, Cam only missed 2 games in his 4th season and then won his MVP in his 5th season. Lamar is already ahead of Cam's pace of his body starting to breakdown, it's not a wild rationale to have serious concerns about how much longer he'll last in this league (and hell, Lamar only started 7 games his rookie year, so he has even less wear and tear on his body than Cam did at this point and has had more injury issues).

No they won't, because if they win a SB, it will be because of their running game, Lamar's running, and their defense. None of that will make questions about his passing or long term durability go away. Sure, it will justify the contract, as pretty much any trade/contract is deemed worth it if it leads to a SB win. The Rams gave up a stupid amount in the trade for Stafford who is falling apart now, but it got them a SB, so it was worth it. Winning a SB and questions remaining aren't mutually exclusive Winning a SB and a contract not being worth it are mutually exclusive Big difference between the two.

He always looks healthy until he gets hurt late in the season due to the accumulation of more hits than his frame can take in a given season before giving way. Look, I just don't like Lamar as a long term franchise QB, he's not a good enough passer and at some point, he won't be able to keep running, he's not a QB who is going to be effective when he gets into his 30's. I'll admit that if he can stay 100% healthy through a postseason run, they of course could win a SB, but I feel like they only have a year or two left on that window before his body really starts to break down. But he hasn't finished either of the last two seasons, played 12 games in each of them, same as he's played this year, I guarantee the Ravens front office is nervous right now.

He said he wants to win another ring, not lose in the first round because Lamar is hurt and can't play in the playoffs, again.

Cmon now, nobody on here is knowledgable enough of up and coming front office members of other teams to be able to speak intelligently on this topic. Closest we could get to it is saying we'd love to steal someone from a team like the Eagles who constantly make great personnel decisions.

We're going to end up hiring Bienemy because nobody else will ever hire him as their HC and in 2 years everyone is going to be complaining about how we have horrible team chemistry because nobody likes playing for him. We'll be the Raiders earlier this year before they fired McDaniels, same thing, the players hate the guy. He couldn't get along with Patrick Mahomes, when getting along with him and playing nice would like likely ended up with him getting a nice HC opportunity. But because everyone knew he couldn't get along with the best player in the game, nobody wanted to see how he is being in charge with less talented players, so he had to move to another OC job.

I think the difference is the Chargers owner was always terrible because he didn't care enough to try to do right by the QBs, while Tepper is trying everything he can, just sometimes doing too much or doing it the wrong way because he cares maybe too much. Just makes me think it isn't a situation the Manning's would pull the same thing as with Eli, I think they'd look at it as an opportunity, knowing Tepper would more than welcome the advice of someone like Peyton (Eli too, but let's be real, it's Peyton) and they could help him make sure they build the team around Arch right.

But wasn't part of it because their owner was known to be cheap at the time and Papa Manning didn't trust them to invest enough to put a winner on the field? It's the exact opposite with Tepper, dude has almost no limit on what he'll spend to win. Plus, you have to think wherever Arch gets drafted, Peyton and Eli would be more than willing to be a sounding board for anyone from the team to help them out. I'd have no problem with Peyton offering Tepper his advice on GM/HC type of decisions, and I think that's the type of person who Tepper would really value and respect their opinion on those matters.

Lamar will not last long term in this league, his style of play with his body type isn't going to hold up. He wasn't even worth the contract the Ravens had to give him, let alone what someone would have needed to trade away on top of it to even get him. I'm quite convinced that his deal will look terrible before this contract is up, he has a year or two left before the hits start adding up and his play drops off dramatically. Hell, let's see if he's even able to finish THIS season healthy, this is about the time of year he has been getting hurt and can't finish the season each of the last couple years.

I'm torn, while I'd love to get him in the end, it's going to get REALLY ugly for that to happen. Next year is already a lost year I think, Bryce isn't the guy. That means we'll either have to suffer through 2 more awful years of Bryce, or we try to replace him after next season and his replacement is so bad that we still end up with the #1 pick in 2026. Honestly, our best path to both getting Manning and still improving the team in 2025 is to get lucky by trying to replicate what the Bears are doing this year. Trade down with our 2025 pick with a team we predict will be terrible in 2025, get their 2025 and 2026 first rounders, and then hope we keep improving in 2025 but end up getting the #1 pick in 2026 from that other team. Basically what the Cardinals were trying to do this year by trading for the Texans 2024 1st in their trade down with them in this past draft for #3. Near impossible to pull off, but I'd be willing to trade down in 2025 if there isn't a clear QB for us to take and attempt it.

The problem is I think the Falcons take a massive step forward next season in this regard. They're going to replace Smith with a real coach, and then maybe trade for someone like Fields. While I don't think Fields is a good passer, putting him with a good offensive coach along with Bijan, Pitts, and London could be very scary team. And even if it's not Fields, with the weapons they have on offense, they just need to find the HC and QB and they're cooking with gas. They should be a very attractive destination for a HC if/when they fire Smith, those weapons aren't something most HC openings have.

Meh I think Williams is a truly elite talent, but I have a feeling he is going to be a head case, and not in the way a Cam Newton was, where he was quirky but it didn't cause locker room problems. That he's already coming out and saying there are only a handful of teams he's interested in playing for and that he wants ownership stake in any team that drafts him. Even if he knows he won't get that and can't pick his team and was just talking pie in the sky stuff, the fact that the consensus #1 pick is even talking about that stuff in jest (if it even is that), is just a concerning state of mind to me. No, I wouldn't pass on him if given the chance to take him without another elite prospect available, but if there was anyone even close (like Maye this year), I might go with the guy who seems to have his head on his shoulders more than Williams.

I put it in a thread last night, but here's what I'd do. First step is there has to be a per year number that he'd agree to, but I won't even guess on that number as pure money alone won't help attract a top candidate, it's the structure of the deal that is needed to entice someone to take on this situation. While the contract will likely be in the 7 year range, there is a 3 year guarantee of his job status so he knows he won't get axed after 1 bad season of Bryce or a follow up bad season with a rookie QB he drafts to replace Bryce. He gets 1 completely free season in year 1 to evaluate and make a decision on if he wants Bryce (which will likely end up being a no in the end). He then gets to select the QB of his choosing with our 2025 pick (or trade for one, whatever he wants to do, and he gets to pick the QB, not Tepper, not a GM). He then gets 2 FULL seasons to show he is building to something and that he can be competitive moving forward. That's the crux of the issue, since all HC contracts are guaranteed anyways, how you provide him an actual guarantee that he will get the 3 full years (which is basically the only way to get a highly qualified candidate to be willing to come here). So there is a poison pill in the contract that if Tepper fires him before the final game of the 3rd season, he not only still gets his full contract paid out, but an immediate $100-200 million payment upon the firing. You could also put something in there that if he gets a certain number of wins in year 3, the same poison pill clause gets extended to guarantee a 4th season (such as if he gets 7 wins or better in year 3, that clause gets extended for another season). No, it couldn't stop him from firing him before that point, but no way in hell is he going to fire him and pay that out, it's an essential guarantee of 3 years to show improvement.

Aside from the question of if Bill has anything left to even be worth trying to get, how has nobody brought up that he's still under contract with the Patriots for a while? Which means we'd have to trade for him... we don't have the draft picks to adequately re-stock the roster, we can't be giving out high draft picks for a soon to be 72 year old coach who may or may not still have what it takes to turn this team into a winner. Even if the Patriots want to move on from him (which in itself would be a sign that it's a bad idea) and they don't demand a 1st for him like the Saints did for Payton, I'm guessing they'd want our 2nd rounder this year for him. There's probably only a small handful of current HC's that I'd be willing to give up that 2nd pick to get, and Bill sure as hell ain't one of them. Shannahan, Siriani, and McDaniel would probably be the extent of my list that I'd trade a draft pick for. Sure, there are plenty of other great HC's out there that I'd love to get, but if we were trading away good picks, you have to factor in things like age (so no to an Andy Reid) and likelihood of still wanting to coach for a long time (so no McVay has he's already been rumored to be wanting to move to the TV studio in the near future).

Patience with someone's job status in the NFL isn't necessarily the same thing as having patience. He pushed the front office and coaches to make moves to win immediately, instead of letting them build up a team the right way over a course of a number of years. I don't even think that's a bad thing to have in an owner, love that he wants to win that badly. But we need to have the staff and coaches in place who can and will push back on him when and where needed to do it right. You don't win in the NFL through quick fixes, just doesn't work that way, too many moving parts. The only way he gets a good HC or GM candidate to come here is if he GUARANTEES 2024 has no impact on his job status and they are allowed to replace Bryce with a QB of their choosing, and then GUARANTEES they get at least 2 seasons to prove themselves. If you can somehow convince them of that, we could get a realistic candidate to come here, maybe some sort of poison pill clause in the contract that if Tepper doesn't hold up his end, the coach gets a $100 million payout on top of an already big contract. It would let the HC/GM know they have 3 years to prove themselves, not to make decisions based on an immediate impact, but a year or two down the line. They could then play Bryce all season to see if they think they can do anything with him and not be concerned about getting fired if they keep losing while ending up with a high draft pick for a new QB.

Just ranking the QB's on who I'd want, compensation aside, it was Richardson, Stroud, Levis, Young. Once we made the trade though, it had to be Stroud or Young because Richardson and Levis were much riskier picks, just higher upside, and you can't take that swing up to #1 to take the risk on either of them. But once I watched more of each of the two, for me it was Stroud without question, solely on that Bryce showed no physical traits that could be even considered above average, let alone elite. Sure, his brain may be next level (which it doesn't appear to be on the field so far), but you can coach up that side of things, elite physical traits are something you either have or don't, the other guys did, Bryce doesn't.

I want whatever is best for this team come the 2025 season, the problem is I have no idea what that will be. Next season is already a waste, Bryce has to be the starter and we're not winning with him there. So I'm already looking at 2025 If winning a few extra games this year somehow convinces a good candidate to actually come here, then I'm all for it. If losing out ensures we get stuck with crap options and Tepper is forced to make change again in 2025 when we have a top draft pick to use to lure a good HC candidate here, then I'm all for that.

Honestly, Tabor coming in and looking competent, getting wins, but more importantly getting the players to show they care, could be what saves this franchise in a weird and morbid way. Tabor isn't the permanent solution, but if he does that and the fans like him, such as with Wilkes last year, it could be the cover Tepper needs to fire another HC after next season so we can try and use a Top 3 pick to lure a new HC that we'd actually want. I don't think we can fire another HC after next year, but hiring the interim the fans liked is about the only way he can then fire the HC after next season goes poorly and not get destroyed in the media for doing it 3 years in a row. They'll look at it and say he went with the interim since things looked good once he took over, like he maybe should have done the year before, but then after a full season it showed he wasn't the guy and it was fair to look to replace him.

Wow, I don't even want to try and compute this one in my head, it's only going to make me sadder. The whole point of hiring this staff was because of their QB guru statuses, if him being wrong on Wentz is what caused him to not fight against drafting a HS sized QB, then it just makes me even sadder over this whole thing. I like Bryce, he's a good kid, but he's just not an NFL QB and I think he and his people always knew it, and it's why they didn't let him throw at the combine. Letting him throw back-to-back with the rest of the prospects would have exposed the hell out of him, when QB's projected to go undrafted looked better throwing the same passes.

If this was a Manning or Lawrence type of rookie year, tons of losses and turnovers, but showing serious flashes of elite potential multiple times in every game of the season, then yes, you're correct. But he has literally, maybe 2 or 3 plays this entire season where you would say, "okay, that was an above average play" and I honestly don't think he's had one play where I said, "that was an elite QB play" While at the same time he's had numerous examples every single week, hell, every half or even every quarter, where you look at the play and say, "how did that guy even get to the NFL, let alone be the #1 pick" He has no arm, he has to have an absolutely picture perfect clean pocket and set base to step into the throw to even have even moderately adequate arm strength, he can't throw anything near an NFL necessary throw if he's off balance, and that's a serious problem in today's NFL. The people still trying to defend him and say it's the system, coaches, or WRs, are the ones who are stuck to their preconceived notions that he can be a good QB in this league. Yes, those things don't help and he'd look better if they improved, but he's not an elite franchise QB and he never will be, that much is clear after watching him for 12 weeks.

Right now, we have almost zero chance of hiring a HC that we actually will want. We want a young up and coming offensive coach, those guys worked their whole lives to get a shot at being a HC and most only get the 1 chance, they're not wasting it on Bryce, they'll take other jobs or wait another season. The majority of the fan base will not be happy with whoever our new HC is, I'm quite confident in saying that because I honestly don't think anyone the majority would want is going to be willing to take the job and be tied to Bryce. We're most likely going to end up with someone like Bienemy who nobody has ever wanted to hire because players don't like him, or a re-tread like Flores, who also nobody actually wants for the same reason, players don't like him. Those type of coaches are best as coordinators, because they are smart football people who work for well liked HC's who are able to get the players to play hard for them. Again, Patrick Mahomes HATED Bienemy, if you can't get along with the current player who has the best chance at catching Brady's GOAT status, then you're the problem. Our best chance at having an HC during the 2025 season that we actually would want, is to hire one going into that season. We also can't fire a coach in 3 straight seasons, not with how much of a mess this franchise is currently. Thus, the only way I see us having a HC in 2025 that we actually want, is to fire Reich next season and align the new HC hire with having a Top 3 pick. Firing Reich is playing the short game, keeping him for one more year is playing the long game. We've been playing the short game since Tepper bought the team and it's only caused us to keep moving further backwards, we needed to play the long game for once and do things the right way. Neither Tepper nor the fans want to do that, everyone wants to be good ASAP again, but that's not how good NFL teams are built, you have to do it from the ground up the right way. I very much think firing Reich right now is 1 step forward but 3 steps back and we're going to end up with a bum of a HC for at least 2, if not the next 3 seasons because Tepper can't fire another HC that quickly. Honestly, if that happens (which is probably a better than 50/50 chance at happening), will you look back on firing Reich as the smart move? And yes, I get your point about Bryce, but that ship has sailed, his absolute max potential is a serviceable game manager who is around the 20th best QB in the league (and frankly, I don't even think he'll be that, I personally think his best outcome is a career backup somewhere, but out of the league within 5 years is more likely). That's not a franchise QB in today's game, that's someone you use as a bridge to your next hopeful franchise QB, I really don't care about trying to develop him next year, he isn't the guy and we can't make decisions based on Bryce, we need to make it about what our actual future will be, and he will be gone by 2026 before his rookie deal is even up.

I think we all know Reich wanted Stroud while Tepper wanted Bryce. What I want to know and what matters to me, is how much did he and the other staff members try to fight for Stroud vs how much they just let Tepper make the decision. If they REALLY fought for Stroud but Tepper literally and 100% forced the decision of Bryce, then yes, Tepper is who I fault. If they were just like, "Well we prefer Stroud, but we're okay with Bryce too" and that then made the pick Bryce, then I blame Reich and the rest of the staff. There are VERY few owners in the league who completely stay out of football operations and don't voice their opinions, especially when it comes to taking a QB at #1 overall, even more so after the trade we made. So people getting upset at Tepper being in the room and voicing his opinion are missing the point, 90% of the other owners in the league would be doing the same thing. It really comes down to how voiceful Reich and the staff pushed back on it, and that I'm not sure we'll ever know.