Bear Hands

If fans of any franchise should understand what a QB1 that truly elevates the team feels like, it should be us. That type of fervent defense made sense with Cam's first 2 years because he was showing such mad potential. People were still bashing him for his character, celebrations, etc. but we were growing as a team and starting to have crazy fire on offense. He was lifting the entire offense so it made sense for a lot of people to tell the detractors to pipe down with their relentless critiques. Bryce isn't giving us even a glimmer of feel in that department. I just don't get it other than true Bama fans or just the types that will refuse to put heavy critique on their QB (which those do exist in a lot of fanbases) Rookie wise, on a Clausen(1)-Cam(100) spectrum, I'd say we are at about a 10-15

That whole debate seems like years ago. This season I tell ya

My only concern is not just Fitterer, but Cole Spencer, Jared Kirksey and their regional crews have been working throughout the season on the upcoming class. These are the guys that have been putting together evals and helping construct our boards for the past 3 years for Rhule, Fitt and Reich. Most team EOS reports for most prospects were due towards the end of November, early December. Lord knows who they're identifying as their next faves. Full cleanout needed.

I’ve been enjoying Troy Franklin but he needs more polished route running for our needs. I’d say the best combo of quick and quality route runner to make it a seamless transition. We have needs all over but an offensive playmaker is the obvious void the size of a black hole. If they want Bryce to do well, they get him one. We need offense in this joint. If they’re not giving up on Bryce, give him the best playmaker possible. WR is preferred but I’m fine with a RB or TE. Just look what the Lions did with Gibbs and LaPorta. And this is a saucy TE class as well.

This— Belicheck’s drafts since 2015 have been terrible

Unless you can objectively qualify what a lockable v unlockable thread is that is merely redundant, then just stop while you’re ahead. Same people that want to dictate who can post or not are the same who tend to send essays to mods via DM complaining about when they experience the slightest inconvenience or warning. Not the OP but just saying. Don’t partake in what you perceive as muddy or else you’re gonna get muddy. It also goes away quicker when you don’t as well.

I'd say Walker, Watson, & Lance have arguments. Depending how this works out, we'll definitely be in discussion for #1. Honestly, every trade we've made under fit has been terrible. All reaches, needy grabs or an unnecessary roster purge for spare parts. Never a true "we wanted this specific guy" trade. Darnold was just awful comp. He should've netted maybe one 3rd and a late rounder. Corral was obviously the last QB left they liked and we didn't have capital to trade higher (desperation & bad scouting..Howell was there). Brandon Smith was this grab based on a RAS score (Fitt's crack) DJJ was the last remaining on their EDGE tier (desperation move and badly scouted EDGE board) CMC was desperation setup for gaining picks back after losing a ton in the above terrible trades Then we immediately use the picks gained from CMC for a bonker #1 overall trade up (which never works) -- I said elsewhere...the ones we didn't take: 2021 Trade Down would've gained an extra future 1st. But we stubbornly took Horn. 2022 Burns Trade for (2) 1sts Just terrible, desperate, needy bologna.

For NYG and TEN, both of their lines have been panned beyond belief this year and are arguably worse than ours. What both rooks did last night was beyond impressive. Had heavy pressure rushing in their face in the closing minutes. And something to not forget, both of those teams have some of the better coaches who teach aggressive, tough, & inspired football. Daboll and Vrabel are great IMO. Down year overall, but they're damn good coaches. Shows how "bad" teams can still win. Which we can't figure out even when the opponents are virtually gifting us the game.

I mean aside of maybe 2 others, arguably league history.

He's 30/32 in the league in that respect, but that's overall EPA. For the more QB centric metric, he's 431 out of 431 qualified QBs in EPA per dropback since it started being measured.

Update: CMC: 1600+ total yards, 17 TDs DJ Moore: 1,070+ yards, 7 TDs 24 TDs The Panthers as a team: 19 touchdowns

Yeah Nix has the arm and just plays bigger. Just has more presence in the pocket. McCarthy has the athleticism and is a bit more disciplined.

Statistically speaking, it's historic in a few ways. He currently has the second lowest YPA in modern history for a starting QB (min 10 games). Only the 3rd player this century to throw 36+ passes in a game and complete 13 or below.

This is optimal advice for most things. It's not that you shouldn't trade up for a guy you really want (I.E. Chiefs-Mahomes), but we traded up for Corral, Smith, Bryce, and DJJ out of pure neediness and also due to the draft capital/positioning we put ourselves in. If we just stopped being the one initiating trades for one season and let things come to us, it would be so much better. The trades we didn't make (and should've) were the ones that came to us (2021 trade down & Burns) and the ones we did (as previously mentioned) dug us into this madness.

I'm 5'9 170 and feel larger than Bryce lol

Fair points. A trade should have already happened. We knew this wasn't working before the deadline this year.

I just want to know if there's more than just the physical limitations and accuracy. That big expose in the Athletic alluded to Bryce not quite being able to take on the full playbook so it just makes you wonder. But I think you're right about Frank. The team was on a short leash so he took it back to fall on the sword if it didn't get better. He knew what was happening.

Step one is what we all want... 1. GM & his scouting dept is relieved of duties along with the remaining coaching staff. The search will be a focus on a pairing -- whether it's GM first or another coach w/personnel control. 2. Burns obviously wants out. You have to tag and trade him. We can still get a decent package so just get it done and don't just let him walk for some comp pick crap. Hopefully he still nets a 1st. May be a 2025 one but possibly 2024 from a team in contention i.e. DET or BAL. 3. Draft a QB in the 3rd-4th to compete. This is a barometer check for the kid. Draft someone like Michael Pratt, Bo Nix, etc. If a mid-round is doing more than Bryce in camp/preseason, a good coach will recognize it. He needs someone young with potential to either push him to be better or get out of the way. He's looked that bad. 4. Rebuild is the remaining focus. Offensive Playmakers and Trench Warfare. 5. FA focus should be impact in leadership. We need tougher dudes with leadership ability. We have dinero for a guy that can be a team captain. I suggest they either do what they can to keep Luvu or look at finding the new D leader at LB. Need some men in this joint.

I feel like this was one of the most monumental, universal-assumptions turned wrong in draft history. "Oh no worries on the size, the kid's got 'it'. No worries on the footwork, he's like a mini-Mahomes. Oh no worries on his deep throws, he had that one against Kansas State". He won 1 Cotton Bowl and beat UGA once. I know you and there were some writers out there that were concerned before we picked him, but it was such a small percentage. It's just crazy how wrong it looks like everyone was. The size was the biggest red flag ever and it was standing right in front of us. It wasn't some work ethic or attitude thing. He's basically the smallest QB in history. And I just can't get over the mechanics. It's like he's untrained as even a competent college QB. I just can't believe it was skimmed past so nonchalantly by all of these supposed ex-player or random All-22 QB inspectors on youtube. Funny enough, the most damning critique has been by the one who was the most successful in Kurt Warner.

9 TDs to 14 TOs 5.3 YPA (2nd lowest in NFL history behind J Russell) 58.5% completion 183 passing ypg I gotta wonder when the broader media will start to see it's not just a situational thing. He's playing downright bad football.

What's wild is that most even mediocre seasons, this team, like others, produced consistent highlights and fun TDs. Big plays, defensive TDs, etc. This year has maybe 3-4 total plays you can throw on a reel from 13 games. The QB has the 2nd lowest YPA in NFL history for a starter behind only Jamarcus Russell. It's insane how anemic this offense is. It's an insult to the sport and every fan to produce a team this bad. We're easily one of the worst ever NFL squads in the 21st century.

Oh damn missed that! Well maybe he elevates to a top pick by 2025. In googling, top odds look like LSU, UCLA and Miami. Interesting. I just love his potential. He had me hooked last year. The arm is there, he can run, he's tough as hell, he's got the size, and really progressed nicely as a passer this season.

Oh man. Breaking down a few moments in sequence that really stand out: -Pick 8 in 2021 could have produced 2 firsts, as we had offers per Fitt's post-draft presser. That could have netted an extra first in 2022. Instead, we had that huge gap between R1 and 4 in 2022 and mortgaged even more to trade up for Corral. Not having a 2nd and 3rd clearly made Fitt and Rhule ansty to trade up when they could have sat and got Howell ahead of WAS. -The Burns offer last year could have given us a 2023 and 2024 1st. We decline, yet we proceed to trade up and put ourselves in a position (again) where we need picks. Mortgaged even more of what we had remaining because we got desperate, too needy. Then, they treat the CMC package way too carelessly going all for this Bryce kid. The CMC picks were filling the voids we gave away for Darnold and Corral, they didn't truly net gain and we immediately waste them. Fitt has simply done an awful job. And he hasn't brought in a single playmaker. Just gave 2 away. And I'm sure they declined interest again from a team like Detroit this season pre-deadline. If this team was just patient and let certain things come to them, we could've had 2 firsts in the 22, 23, and 24 drafts. Bezerk. Could have had a crop like Rashawn Slater (21), Garrett Wilson (22), Zion Johnson (22), & CJ Stroud with CMC and DJ Moore still in house, and an extra 1st in 2024. And also more potential OL and DL from the picks that wouldn't have given away for Corral and Bryce. They keep backing themselves into the corner, these forced situations, needing to force picks, missing the real talent. The careless QB carousel resulting in one of the biggest trades in NFL history ruined the rest of the team. So much talent missed.

If Penix or McCarthy is there at 33...I mean, that's tempting given what we've seen this year. But it's doubtful to think a QB at the top of the second realistically happens. However, I don't think it would be a bad idea to keep an eye on one in the 3rd-4th rounds. Some competition with a young backup with big traits/upside could be better at this rate. And maybe we find ourselves a Hurts, Purdy, Cousins type. Cameron Ward & Michael Pratt are the two I'd personally target.

Listened to most of the game in the car today. Luke and Jake were having a really hard time this week trying to frame anything positively. They were even talking about potentially benching Bryce in the second half. They were pointing out a fair chunk of misses and inaccurate throws. You can tell they're getting pretty frustrated by the output.