MHS831

That is my point. I think teams make a huge mistake when they pay their decent to average QBs top QB money because they feel that they have to match the market or lose their investment--There is no way, for example, that Tua or Prescott or Murray should all be making more than Mahomes--I mean, Dak makes $15m per season more than Mahomes. People say, "Well, when its his turn...." But that is not how it should be--so my point was that Bryce can be doing mediocre to good enough in 2 years, but the way it is going, you have to pay him at the starting QB rate--currently $60m. So even if you think he will continue to improve, at $60 m, he would eliminate any chance for a ring---so my view is, if he is not elite, you cut him. So you draft QBs now and see what you can make of them.

Personally, I am not sold on Bryce yet--and I do not think anyone is saying they are, but I don't think Ward is on table when we draft anyway. Not even sure if I would rather have him than one of the later QBs. I see a lot of potential in Allar, Nussmeire, Rourke, and even Hamilton from Ohio State--Milroe is intriguing, but I am not sure he is an NFL QB. Ewers is that sleeper who falls and becomes a solid starter. I think that we sign a veteran who has played and we draft one of these project QBs. To your point: With that in mind, I think you have to take QB off the table in round 1, and if Bryce can string 4-5 games like KC together, we still need to draft a QB in round three or so---I really think Rourke is a great fit for this offense--he is accurate and gets the ball out quickly---he impressed me vs OSU. Reason? I think we may have a tough decision to make about Bryce in 2 years--will he be worth $60m? That decision is a lot easier if you have been grooming a backup for 2 years who can play. In round 1: I am hoping for PSU's edge Abdul Carter In round 2: I would like to see us grab a DT who can rush the passer. Walter Nolen of Ole Miss is versatile and a bit raw. I think he could be an excellent complement to Brown. In round 3: I would love ILB Danny Stutsman from Oklahoma. He is a beast. With 11 picks, I would package our 4th rounders to move up into the third round and take a QB. At the moment, I think Rourke is trending upward and he has the skills Canales seems to want in a QB. Quick processor, quick release. I would use the fifth rounders on OL. I know that I left out WR--however, we are getting Thielen back, XL will be improved, Coker will be improved, and Moore has been surprisingly good. Sanders (TE) has been more than expected in the passing game. I think we need D more than WR, and maybe we can get a veteran WR to sign or find a hidden gem late.

Center is a very underrated position.

FLASHBACK: I remember back when ESPN was just starting--he was their anchor. They used to show stuff like Rodeo and field hockey--I remember laughing when he went to a commercial mocking a cycling competition in Utah (or something similar--I made that up) and I laughed. I told my dad, "We may have us a new anchor when we get back from commercial." When they came back from commercial, Berman was looking very serious and he said, "Any comments by me do not reflect the views of ESPN....The men and women who cycle are dedicated athletes and we are honored to shine light on their sport." (Paraphrasing). Dad laughed hysterically. My first memory of him--and that was like 1980.

I think we need to draft a young OT and C, later in the draft. I like the Guards we have and I like the depth. Frankly, I would like to see more of what Mays and BC can do at C--problem is, when Ickey needs a deal in 2 years, we'd have a ton of cap space on the OL--maybe that is when you release a veteran like Moton--depending on his play--but you will have to give up something. The Fish did not want to lose Hunt, but they had to pay others. I think the depth should be players on first contracts if you are going to pay the starters big bucks. Not ideal, but what is?

OL can play at a high level until they are 34-35 or more. Moton has been solid. I extend him. Shaq? He has a small frame--playing inside is taking its toll. He is never going to be above average--the draft is pretty deep at ILB.

He had a good game vs Green Bay last year---and we said, "There it is!" and it went away. However, it is different this year---he is getting the ball out--less indecision---cautiously optimistic--I still say we draft a QB like Allar, Rourke, Nussmeire, etc.

walked into a room full of mouth breathers. I knew comparing Jones to Cam (and the numbers were parallel for the most part) would piss them off. It did. I haven't broken the news to them yet that I have stats that prove Santa is not real. Saving it for a rainy day.

The only responses I am getting after providing statistics to put opinions in perspective seem to be from people who get angry and attack stats and people whose opinions differ from their own. Have people on the Huddle ever overreacted, exaggerated, been wrong about players before? Sure they have, so an alternative opinion with statistical support should not cause you to attack me or my views without support or an alternative point of view. I think Jones, in a better situation, could be good--that should not upset you--to be honest, I don't give a crap if you twist my words and deny stats and data--so move on. I have a different opinion. Take some deep breaths.

Did I say that? Once again, you have to childishly misrepresent my data so you can pound your chest without stats/data to argue. Have you followed his career? Nope--just watched the Giants lose and blamed the QB. sure, he has not played well of late--but the whole career tells a different story--one that you intentionally ignore because the facts I shared were stunningly revealing. The difference between Cam and Jones is statistically slight--Jones was on worse teams--that is not subject to debate. the rest is your opinion-why are you attacking my statistics and data because it disproves your opinion? Here is what we know--there is no answer--you do not know--and all I am doing is providing data that suggests we should kick the tires. I know it stings, but the point was not to say--"Man, that's Cam Newton." There you go again. You do not understand the point--Statistically, draw the line between the Greatness of Cam and the suckage of Jones--you can't, and that is why you simply provide no stats. Why attack people who disagree with your uninformed and unsupported opinions? To me, that is insecurity--hope it works out for you.

Actually, if you had an argument, you would present facts and data and stats like I did-is it that difficult for you to have someone with a different opinion? Calling names is pretty classy and intelligent. Read my posts, troll. Please ignore me--I only interact with people who have points.

Yes. And this converts directly to confidence. Does the coach have confidence to call a deep dig or seam route? Does Bryce have confidence in his ability to be the Alpha? Do his teammates have confidence. About film--when I see Cam Newton's pre-snap confidence vs. Bryce's, it is night and day. Film--tells you if the WRs are open (why l love watching the Replay telecasts from the end zone cameras--you can see it. I have seen 2 WRs open and Bryce's eyes are on the outlet WR or the pass rush. ) You can see progressions, and he has improved a bit--but he is very quick to rush through 1 and 2 and checkdown--that is a lack of confidence in his ability to read the defense. I had a former NFL TE (Deems Maye) who played QB in high school (not sure about college) tell me that the best QBs read the defense by knowing where everyone will be when the ball is to arrive--not where they are. I think his QB at the time was Humphries. He said that Humphries would throw the ball into coverage before the cuts etc. because he understood DB momentum, zone areas, etc. and he could just see it. Said so when people say nobody was open, they are usually right because nobody should be "open" when the QB has the ball--when the ball arrives, everyone should be open. He said Humphries was never "great" but his skills were limited--from a small school--but his ability to read a defense made him never give up on a route.

Stats really show the picture more than they lie, but I get what folks are saying. Tua in Miami, for example, just got a deal and his stats are inflated by some pretty explosive "after the catch" guys. I would say that Bryce has a better OL and has lost 3 of his top 4 WRs this year. He really has not had a great TE--so to be fair, stats work both ways. But you do not pay a QB $35m to learn football for 3 seasons. So to answer your question, do I feel that we can win with Bryce with 1 timeout, 2 minutes to go 80 yards, down by 5? No. When that answer is "Yes," we have our starter.

I saw that too--and what you said made sense because there is something like that in the rules--said that he is unlikely to get picked up (and I was not suggesting that we do) and Jones wants to go to a winning team. After getting beaten to death in NY behind a sub par OL, poor WRs, and brutal fan base, I get it.

Did I mention that he was on worse teams? Yes. Do QBs alone win games? No. Did Cam, on a much better team with some awesome defenses ever have 2 consecutive winning seasons? No. So now you are cherry picking, If the overall stats are similar, you take a look at him. I told you that you look at his skill set---but you wanted to tell me that he sucks and mentioned performance. I just presented performance--and his numbers are very similar to Cam Newton's numbers--a player most call the best Panther QB ever--and I agree. By the way, Fumbles are evidence of how bad his OL has been--so you are saying that a QB in a situation worse than Cam's who has stats and physical abilities very similar to Cam's should not be given a look when you have Bryce Young at QB? You are going with that story because you simply talked your way into a corner and now you are trying to save face. No good GM would do what you suggest because "he sucks." Sorry, but the facts do not support you. But no matter what eye-opening details I provide, there are some who are going to go their Google machines to try to find some reason to support an ignorant approach to developing the QB position. You ignored the similarities to Cam and went cherry picking. I know what you are doing--but I am only suggesting (as I have stated before) that we bring him in as one of three approaches to resolving the QB issue. Compete with Bryce and draft a QB. Basically, I am suggesting that Jones has the potential to replace Dalton and compete with Young. He is a battered stock that could get better in a better situation--that is human nature. Instead, I am called a Daniel Jones lover and superfan. That is good debate--But a real sign of mature thinking is the inability to LOGICALLY consider alternative perspectives--which is actually a characteristic of intelligence. Just so you know, I critique and perform research in my job. I am often amazed at how the numbers do not support my suppositions. I learned that my impression is often wrong until I look at the data. In this case, I have considered all the important variables and he should get a shot. Numbers don't lie--and when you and others resort to twisted name calling directed toward the poster--it verifies my position.

What the hell? How is presenting Cam's stats hating him? The point is not to hate Cam, it is to show you how similar Jones is to him and why you take a look at him. I mentioned Jones has the skill set to take a look--the response is, "look at his 5 years of performance." So I compare him to the greatest QB in franchise history, and the stats are similar--while Jones was in a worse situation. Now that is "hating?" Come on. This is a meritless, ignorant, personal attack because you are wrong. Just stop it. You all attack the poster when you have nothing. So saying "we should consider a guy with similar stats and size to Cam Newton" is now hating Cam and making me a Jones super fan- that is just stupid.

So a starting QB with 5+ years of experience and whose stats are very similar (if you do math) with Cam Newton's stats (who had much better defenses and offensive lines) here becomes available, and Bryce is your QB and you do NOT kick the tires on Jones. You simply call him a "broken toy" and do nothing. That sounds like a very passive approach. Remember, you labeled him, not the stats he accumulated on some pretty bad teams since 2019. I am telling you what a smart GM would do, and even if Jones is broken and can't be fixed, you make that determination after giving the matter due diligence. You and Completely are simply forcing your opinions about his play into logic, and the stats do not support them. Put him in a better situation and he will do better, but in a bad situation, with some terrible offensive lines, WRs, and bad defenses, he was on track to have stats that parallel Cam Newton--like it or not--numbers don't lie, nor does his size, arm strength, speed, and intelligence. Broken? I am saying he is an interesting prospect and should not be overlooked by bias, misinformation, and context.

You want stats? You want to evaluate performance? Lets compare Jones with Cam Newton. Crazy, right?

I am very sorry you can't comprehend this very simple concept. The fact that YOU think he sucks is not factored into anyone's evaluation--so you are trying to force your view into fact--the fact is, you kick the tires on every QB until you have one. Now, enough of this dumbassery. OK--wanna feel smart? Tell me what skills he lacks? Size? Arm? Mobility? Intelligence? Now---"He sucks" is not a fact or skill. I am saying if you can get his head right you might have something. That is all I said--and you think I should be attacked for expressing that perspective. I even said he is not the only option and if he sucks, cut him. But you take a look--you don't go full retard and start acting like you know stuff you don't. That is bullsht, and you are trying to sell it as intelligence. Buhhaaahaa

You allow him to compete--you all are talking as if I am proposing making him the starter. Give him a new coach, new weapons, good OL, etc. and see what happens. You are saying, "Well Damn. It did not work for 3 guys..." Right now, our C is injured, we lost our top 2 WRs. Better question: If you need a QB, Why would you not take a chance on bringing in a QB who was a former first rounder, a good arm, intelligence, mobility, youth, etc. and see how he does out of NY--with a better OL, better running game, better receivers. I am not saying give him a 10-year contract, I am saying give him a chance and if he does not work out, cut him and look for another. To me, how can you sit there with Bryce and an opportunity to sign a veteran QB on the cheap comes available and you say--"Not us. We're good. We are waiting for Patrick Mahommes." Jones' problem is obviously mental--and he has little support. Why is this so frigging hard to comprehend. It is called "bottom fishing" and it is better than sitting in the boat. Not giving him a shot is like a starving man turning down a hamburger because he thinks steak is better. You draft a QB too--why is this so damn hard--because he sucked on a bad offense? Most QBs would...Now I do not know why the are cutting him, but if you forget the performance on a bad team, you look at skills and potential--but I assure you, he was verbally abused in NY and it gets to you--crushes your confidence. Bring him home, let him regroup and see what he can do--why is that so outrageous? You like Bryce? You think we are drafting Cam Ward? What is your plan?

He is nearly as valuable as a starter.

He might suck--but instead of giving him a change in a new setting, and before GMs decide his value, they should just ask you. How was school today? Did they have pizza and corn?

thanks--I don't really keep up with that stuff. I think people see this as an all or nothing proposition. It is not--if he were to come here, it would have to be on a hometown discount and he would enter as one of four QBs. We watched Darnold and screamed, "He sucks!" and he is playing well for the Vikings with a good situation; We screamed, "Baker sucks!" and he signed a biggish deal with the Bucs and is a pretty nice fit in their system. You'd think we'd be willing to take a low-risk chance on this guy. NY is the worst place to play if you are on a bad team (Ask Aaron Rogers). The Giants have a banged up and fragmented roster. Jones is emotionally and mentally drained. Could he be done? Yep. Could he be good somewhere else with better weaponry, coaching, and protection. Yep.

I think they saw the QB market as one that would not be good for them when they picked, so they figured the top WRs--a huge need---would be smarter than reaching. I also know that they tried to upgrade their OL but then lost Barkley--I still think Shoen thought Jones would be better--and then injuries hit the OL and the WR corps struggled-you could argue chicken or the egg, but that was the plan--in my estimation

NOT at that salary, but at a team friendly deal, we'd be stupid not to give him a chance to compete. When you don't have a QB, you are in the market for a QB.