MHS831

I never played on this new stuff with the rubber tire balls in it or the synthetic grass whatever, but in college, we played and practiced on an artificial surface. You had to tape up just to prevent getting burns and scabs. Playing on grass was great, but required different shoes and the footing felt a bit different. Grass was slower, and some teams would grow it thicker and higher if you had a speed advantage over them--but if you ask a player from yesteryear, I might have gone to a different college if I considered the turf--when it rained and seeped into the padding beneath the turf and then froze---it was like playing on concrete. Here is some data from a natural grass turf company's website: Here is some independent research from university hospitals: Researchers identified a total of 953 injuries during the 2017-2018 athletic seasons, with 585 of them occurring on synthetic turf and 368 on natural grass. Researchers then performed subgroup analysis to determine injuries that took place on artificial turf versus natural grass based on injury location (lower extremity, upper extremity, torso), sport, level of competitive play (freshman, junior varsity, varsity), and practice versus competition injuries.https://www.uhhospitals.org/for-clinicians/articles-and-news/articles/2019/08/artificial-turf-versus-natural-grass While I can not find an article (in 10 minutes of extensive google research) that supports the artificial surface, the main concern I see is climate. How often you have to re-sod grass fields. https://www.startribune.com/on-football-keeping-nfl-playing-surfaces-safe-grass-or-not/572993322/

Yeah, after reading KBs post and doing some monkish meditation, I can't pick many players that won't contribute-so I thought I would share my thoughts. Many of these will be role players, but if you give them a season or two, I see five to seven starters (or key rotational players that get about 50% of snaps). I will put the potential/likely eventual starters (at some point in 2021) in green. I will put the players that could have key roles by 2022 (starting or rotational) in blue: 1. Horn---duh. He will start as CB1. The farther the draft gets behind us, the more I like this pick and understand it. Watching him at rookie camp, he is an alpha. Combine him with Chinn, we will have 2. 2. Marshall---a first round talent who will be WR3. We will use WR3 a lot, and I expect Marshall to be that guy who can beat anyone the defense has for a WR3--like Samuel last year, but I think Marshall is an upgrade because we also got another rookie I like (spoiler alert) Shi Smith. 3. Christensen---We all want the LT question answered, and it is possible that Christensen is that LT due to his athleticism, but remember, we played Gross at RT his rookie season, Ryan Kalil at G, Moton on short yardage sets. It takes time, so they do not need to rush the process. I think he is an eventual all pro LG, and I think (in the back of his head) Rhule sees that too. Elflein better learn center. Does that mean LT is still a problem? Well, sorta but I think we have some options there (Erving, Scott, even Daley and Little) that if we improve both G spots, we will be better up front--and do not forget the significance of Tremble. 4. Tremble---If we can focus on blocking edge rushers on the blind side, and if we are confident our G play is much better, and if we have more people to cover than they have in their defensive backfield, the LT problem is minimized. On top of that, Tremble will be awesome as a blocking TE, decent as a receiving TE, and awesome on special teams. He makes us better 3 ways while helping the LT. 5. Hubbard---while not a name we easily remember when reflecting on the draft, a player capable of keeping CMC fresh and off the exercise bike is important. He is a RB/pass catching back, but if his pass blocking does not improve, his action will be limited. I was not happy with this pick with better players at need positions on the board. Rhule, if you wife calls or texts during the draft, ignore her. 6. Nixon---maybe the best value of the draft (don't tell that to 6th round Deonte Brown). Nixon has the alpha gene as well, the swag, etc. and the tape to prove it. He is a player we needed--a 3T to play beside Brown and Roy and rotate in with DaQuan Jones. I love this pick in round 5. WHAT? He will make the team and play. 7. K. Taylor---another long CB that looked good at the SR bowl. His Washington tape is not that impressive, but maybe the coaching and fit was better in Mobile and Rhule saw what he likes. Do not expect to see him play a lot in 2021; we will have Bouye and Melvin and Pride, and Jackson, and Horn--but Taylor will likely be playing for a spot in 2022. If he plays well in practice and in limited duty, no need to re-sign or extend a few 1-year or final year contracts. We are likely to let Melvin go (if he makes the team) and may not re-sign Jackson if Taylor balls out. Bouye is on a 2-year deal, so 2022 would be solid if Taylor steps up. So be patient with him, but pay attention. 8. D. Brown---a potential starting RG in round 6. Miller was acceptable last year, but by no means should be shopping for houses in Charlotte. Brown has proven to be intelligent and is showing self discipline. He weighed about 370 on Rhule's team at the SR Bowl, and I think that scared teams away--I avoided him in my mocks anyway. Let's say all we did to upgrade the OL was improve RG and LG and depth--but I think we did more. Brown could bust, but I do not see it. I think he catches on and starts by the end of the season. 9. S. Smith---WR4 with some of the best hands you will see. A steal in the sixth round, dropped because he was on a bad team with a bad QB. He will fit the possession WR role as a slot, but he can do more. Special teams ace too. We have never been this LOADED at WR. The star of the SR Bowl--and I expect him to have a gradually-increasing role here. You may see Moore stealing some snaps early on, but when the light comes on for Smith, Moore drops to WR5. 10. Thomas Fletcher---I do not evaluate hikers, but there could be a method to this madness none of us has considered. Have you watched the kickers/punters in practice? They share a long snapper. Maybe stashing Fletcher on the PS would give them 2 long-snappers and allow the punter and kicker (Slye) to get more work at practice. I dunno. I just can't see us letting JJ go. JJ is on a one-year deal. 11. Hoskins-- Probably a PS DT to develop and plug in if we have an injury, assuming he makes it. He is at 280, so maybe his role is to be that developmental, run stuffing end or that pass rushing 3T. I dunno what the plan is for him. UNDRAFTED Free Agents: We have 2 that could make the team and contribute. 1. Moore: I know Moore is a massive G, but he seems smart, and he would be an ideal candidate to develop for a season behind Paradis to take over at C. Elflein could play there, but his stint at C in the past was not great, and I doubt they really want Erving there. Moore could be the starting center in 2022. What a steal if that happens---or he could be the LG if Christensen stays at LT. 2. Fisher: Fisher is a 2-down, run-stuffing thumper who is likely to remain a backup and special teamer, but we really do not have that player in the middle that makes RBs switch to soccer. Perryman has been hurt a lot, and it is a long season. Fisher is limited, but what he can do, he does well. Think AJ Klein-stuffs C gap to C gap, but when you need to cover or go sideline to sideline, he stuffs C gap to C gap.

I had a logic attack and it told me that Jones passed on him twice in the draft for a LB and a CB-while the Dallas defense sucked last year, I get it, but he could have made that trade on draft day, and did not pull it off-any time before pick 59.

The best goalie we had on the punt return team.

Gotta go with Keary Colbert here. Nah, I could not stand his overrated cocky arse.

Have not read the whole thread, but I loved Travelle Wharton as a player and person.

Looks like somebody let the Falcons' cheerleaders in to graze. Lock the gates, people!!!

Jarrod Cooper---he is on my list too

Going old School: Rucker Menter Proehl Berlein Hoover Kasay Jarod Cooper Bates

KB, we should temper expectations, but dang, our pool of draftees is possibly effective. Our sixth rounder could very reasonably and practically start at RG at some point. Our third rounder is a possible starter. Of course, Horn and Marshall will play key roles. Tremble? How will we keep him off the field, especially if we do not keep a FB? I am very convinced that we will see 7-9 of these drafted rookies on the field every game. How well will they do? Dunno. But I would lean closer to 5-6 than 2-3. Horn and Marshall are first round talents who will play at a high level and do well. Christensen? Not sure--RG is his fastest path, but he could roll into LT as a rookie at some point. Tremble and Brown are the other two that I think may tip the scales toward 5---- And I am not going to even mention the long snapper situation.

Jimmy, I was just throwing it out there to give us something to chew on in May, but there is something to both sides of the argument that makes it very interesting to debate. You are bringing some good stuff to the table, and so are the people who oppose your perspectives. I may be sick, (confirmed) but I love a debate that has no winner--

Hats off to BP-again.

39 years of QBs from Ohio State University drafted to play in the NFL. 37 TOTAL NFL wins. The best QB they produced on the NFL level (Tomczak) was a 55% passer in college with more interceptions than TDs. That QB, undrafted, managed to get more NFL wins than all other Ohio St. QBs drafted during the past 39 years. This is the same school that caused Burrow to transfer to LSU--and in 10 games with the Bengals he won 2 games--if he had not been hurt and was QB when the Bengals won all four games in 2020, he would have tied the CAREER TOTALS for the top drafted QBs at Ohio St since 1982. THAT is how good OSU QBs have been. Let that sink in. Not to say that Fields is not going to succeed, they are due. Darnold goes to the worst football team in the NFL, a program who has not had a successful QB since Namath, if you dont count Richard Todd, and I dont. Now you are going back 50 years. And he sucks, but Fields is the messiah? Not sure I follow that logic.

So yes, both programs could do better--but to equate them for the sake of argument is self-serving and wrong. Like comparing a firecracker to hand grenade and saying, "They both blew up." Here is the stat you need to defend: In the past 39 years (since 1982 with first round selection Art Schichter) there have been 10 Ohio State Quarterbacks drafted into the NFL--of those, only 1 (Kent Graham, drafted in the eighth round) has more than 4 career NFL victories. Mike Tomsczak was not drafted (1985), and he has more wins than all of the other 10 drafted OSU quarterbacks combined. And of all 11 OSU QBs who played QB in the NFL since 1982, they accumulated a total of 79 wins. That means in the past 39 years, Ohio State QBs average 2 wins among all 32 teams per season---thanks to undrafted Mike Tomzczak--who contributed half of them--the rest? 1 game per season. Carson Palmer alone had 92 wins. Matt Cassell--a backup at USC--had 36 NFL wins--one less than all 10 OSU drafted QBs over that period of time. Rodney Peete? 45 wins. So I can take the top 3 USC QBs since 1986 and get 173 NFL victories--nearly 100 more NFL victories in the NFL in that span of time. So they are not really close. And remarkably, there is this: https://www.nfl.com/news/pipelines-to-the-pros-quarterbacks

At about the 1:00-1:11 minute mark, Chinn intercepts a Foles pass deep in Panther territory. Boston, celebrates by pointing the wrong direction.

The point here is not to discredit Fields--I wanted him before we signed Darnold--I wanted a few of the rookie QBs . But to act like an OHIO ST QB is the savior to turn around the program is like expecting Trevor Noah to say something unpredictably funny. It is to show people a few things--1) An average QB in a good system can look great; 2) a good QB in a bad system can look bad. Some have been crying about passing on Fields as if he is a sure fire pro bowler--where if that happens, it would certainly defy about 100 years of Buckeye tradition and trashing Darnold because he did not play well in a bad system with a bad coach. But then to defend the OSU qbs, I get, "Well there were many coaches and many systems..." So they matter in college, but not in the NFL? Just an interesting look at the draft--there was risk, but nobody can say that drafting Fields would have been better than trading for Darnold. Risk on both sides.

Could you argue that North Dakota State University has produced better NFL QBs than Ohio State?

Well, I am discrediting the pipeline, not the player---he was not on the list. And during the draft, isnt that all we do?

It really is amazing--Oregon before last year had a bunch of busts all the back to Fouts. Bama QBs? Namath. UCLA--after Aikman? It used to be Miami and Maryland, remember that far back? Now you can throw Clemson, NC State (Gabriel, Rivers, and a bunch of low-end starters), etc.

Should have been more clear--by not drafting Fields like so many wanted to do so--well, if you look at history, Fields would have to be the exception to a pretty consistent rule--although he may do well, they said the same thing about several other OSU QBs like Miller, Pryor, Smith, and Haskins--even Jones to some.

Well, Carson Palmer was pretty good--and I am only asking if there is an OSU QB you would trade for Sam Darnold (a USC QB) if they were both 24. That alone suggests USC QBs are better if you can't.

I asked a simple question--who would you trade for? The rest is an inference as to what this means, one made by you, not me. Since Palmer and Darnold and I would argue Peete are better than anyone on the OSU list to date--the point to be made is--USC QBs have been mostly busts, but their top 3 are better than OSU's best.

Perhaps this makes you feel a little better: Ohio State QBs that played in NFL: Don Scott Johnny Borton Dave Leggett Frank Kremblas Ron Maciejowski Greg Hare Cornelius Greene Art Schlichter Jim Karsatos Tom Tupa Kent Graham Bobby Hoying Joe Germaine Steve Bellisari Craig Krenzel Troy Smith Terrelle Pryor Braxton Miller Cardale Jones Dwayne Haskins Remember, many of these were first rounders--franchise saviors. So here is the challenge: Pick ONE of the QBs from Ohio State's all time QB list who you'd trade for Darnold if both were age 24. Make a lengthy list if necessary. Use an extra sheet of paper if you need to do so.

Watched the video. Horn is an alpha and he was the best on the video. Shaaawing

If you value character, you value its impact on your life, your family, your spheres of influence. You described a situation after you used the word "if" that is not aligned with success in the NFL. And cultural problems--bad locker rooms, bad publicity (answering questions about the crap every time there is a presser) wears you down. Don't mock the "brand". Your name should mean something to you because in a word it summarizes all you are about--it is all you have, if you think about it. If you do not value it, if you do not think character and pride and winning are connected, hit "reset" and try again.