Remember Deshaun Foster?

[panthers55]

No doubt it takes good defense to win a championship but it also takes a QB who takes care of the football. What in the last 6 months make you think that that is a quality Jake possesses?

Obviously the defense and offense need to work but there have been examples where a quarterback plays poorly and the team still wins with a great defense- look at Piitsburgh 2005. Teams almost never do well with a great offense unless the defense picks it up as well. Think Indy 2006.

Great defense beats great offense almost all the time.

[jramsey4]

Obviously the defense and offense need to work but there have been examples where a quarterback plays poorly and the team still wins with a great defense- look at Piitsburgh 2005. Teams almost never do well with a great offense unless the defense picks it up as well. Think Indy 2006.

Great defense beats great offense almost all the time.

No doubt but when in 05 did Ben look even remotely as bad as Jake over a 5 game stretch? Its simple odds the more the QB turns the ball over the more opportunities (and the better field position) the opposing team has to score. This spells disaster for almost any D.

[3MTA3]

Jake has not forgot how to quarterback, I think he Is trying to make throws that he can't make any longer after that surgery. No Qb has had it and came back and been consistent, and played at the level they did beforehand

[panthers55]

No doubt but when in 05 did Ben look even remotely as bad as Jake over a 5 game stretch? Its simple odds the more the QB turns the ball over the more opportunities (and the better field position) the opposing team has to score. This spells disaster for almost any D.

No question a quarterback can't suck ongoingly, but a great defense can rescue a quarterback's mistakes like a pick in your end. Back in 2005 our defense was not great limiting yards but was very good limiting points. Quarterbacks can play with more confidence knowing that if they make a mistake the defense can bail them out. And they can be more patient if they know they don't need to score 30 points in order to win.

Right now we don't have any confidence that our defense can keep us in a game or get a turnover to give the ball back to the offense when we need it. It puts pressure on the offense to make a play. When Jake does that bad things usually happen.

[panthers55]

Jake has not forgot how to quarterback, I think he Is trying to make throws that he can't make any longer after that surgery. No Qb has had it and came back and been consistent, and played at the level they did beforehand

Only three quarterbacks have had it, and the other 2 sucked before the surgery as well. Enough pitchers have come back from even multiple tommy johns to believe that his problems are likely more mental than physical. Especially since his arm was limp spagetti for 2 years before the surgery. It didn't affect him during that period. Doubt it is worse now.

[3MTA3]

Only three quarterbacks have had it, and the other 2 sucked before the surgery as well. Enough pitchers have come back from even multiple tommy johns to believe that his problems are likely more mental than physical. Especially since his arm was limp spagetti for 2 years before the surgery. It didn't affect him during that period. Doubt it is worse now.

It's hard to compare a pitcher to a quarterback, A football is a lot heavier and It Is a little harder to throw for A long distance

[panthers55]

It's hard to compare a pitcher to a quarterback, A football is a lot heavier and It Is a little harder to throw for A long distance

We had this discussion when the surgery was performed. Quarterbacks also don't put the same amount of torque on the elbow and don't throw 90 miles an hour for 100 to 130 times like a starting pitcher does. Things offset one another. Still nothing I see says it is physical. Smith used to say that Jake couldn't out throw him in the past. Now Jake does it routinely. His problems are timing and touch not strength.

[ND22]

I just want to remind everyone that at one time Foster was actually pretty good. Was anyone there for the first preseason game of the year during Foster's rookie year when, on his first carry as a NFL running back, he ran for a 40 yard touchdown burning everyone down the sideline?

Yeah he fumbled a lot, but he a large part of his failure here was due to John Fox trying to turn him into Stephen Davis. He gained weight, got hurt, gained some more weight, lost his speed (wow sort of sounds like Sean May). I'm not saying he was ever better than D-Will (cus he wasn't), but for the first couple years of his career we all thought we had a franchise back.