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Have drop back quarterbacks been exposed?


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#16 Haplo E

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:33 AM

You realize this past years Heisman and national championship winner wasn't a dual threat right? Winston averaged less than 2.5 yards a carry.

Winston is pretty mobile. He could run the spread. He picked up a lot of 1st down with his leg throughout the season. Defenses have to account for him running the ball. That's the point Weis is making. Although he's a pure pocket passer he also have the added dimension. It's basically pocket passers who can run versus pocket passer who cannot.



#17 thefuzz

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:40 AM

Give me a passer every day in the NFL.

 

I like that Cam can run, and is one of the better running QB's in game/ever.

 

However, when he gets his mechanics perfect and is reading D's like the top 3 or 4 in the league, that's when he will be tough to beat on a consistent basis.

 



#18 Haplo E

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:51 AM

No.  All of the "running" QBs in the NFL can also throw the ball pretty damn well.  The elite of the elite NFL QBs are still largely drop back passers.  Aaron Rodgers is the only tier one NFL QB who can be considered dual threat, but compared to the likes of Cam, Kaep, Wilson, and even Luck he's not that level of runner.

 

A running QB definitely adds an extra wrinkle, but so does a QB the level of Manning, Brady, and Brees (ugh). 

If you watch those QBs, especially in the playoffs, it is quite obvious their lack of mobility hinder the potential of their offense. They have completely built OL and weapons around them but when they go against a good defense it gives them problem. Seattle did not have a true #1 type WR throughout the season but they still move the ball at ease and put up 50 when need be.

 

No one is arguing that pure pocket passers can't put up lots of yards but football is about picking up that crucial 1st down at crucial time. Kapaernick ran circles around a very good GB defense 2 playoffs in a row while Rodgers is looking all confused while putting up good passing stats.

 

If the 9ers put a whooping on GB this year again, I can assure you that people will start to wonder the value of Rodgers.



#19 PiratePanther189

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:52 AM

Charlie Weis is probably just mad because he can't find anybody willing to drop back and pass at fuging Kansas



#20 Haplo E

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:55 AM

Give me a passer every day in the NFL.

 

I like that Cam can run, and is one of the better running QB's in game/ever.

 

However, when he gets his mechanics perfect and is reading D's like the top 3 or 4 in the league, that's when he will be tough to beat on a consistent basis.

Cam is tough to beat on a consistent basis. Haven't you been watching? There come a point in the game where immobile pocket passers are rendered helpless. Cam never have such moment.



#21 CatMan72

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:55 AM

A mobile QB is clearly an advantage, but at some point you still have to be able to win from the pocket. 



#22 thefuzz

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:59 AM

Cam is tough to beat on a consistent basis. Haven't you been watching? There come a point in the game where immobile pocket passers are rendered helpless. Cam never have such moment.

 

Cam is tough to beat, but a great D can severely limit a "running QB" if they can't fire from the pocket.

 

Mike Vick can run like the wind blows, but never became a great passer.  He would have highlight games, and then tank the next one.

 

Steve Young, Cunningham, Elway, Tarkenton, etc....all of them could run, but you better be able to spin it to win it.



#23 Haplo E

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:04 AM

Especially in that it ignores the differences between the college and the pro game.

 

The talent level in college is significantly lower than in the NFL.  At that level, a single superior athlete might only need to outrun half the opposing defense to make a big gain.  Not so in the pros, where the entire opposing defense is made up of guys who were the best of the best in college.  Outrunning a pro defense is a much bigger achievement, and much more difficult to do.

 

And then there's the age factor.

 

It's extremely rare to have a college quarterback over the age of 23.  Good Pro quarterbacks play into their 30s.  And throw in that a college QB only has to maintain his level of play for 3 to 4 years.  A pro QB with a career that short is probably a bust.  The level of punishment you take from defenders plays in here too.

 

Anybody here really dumb enough to believe that Cam Newton is still gonna be running like he can now when he's over 30 and has the wear and tear of a ten year NFL career on his body?

 

People have been predicting that running quarterbacks would take over the NFL since the days of Randall Cunningham.  It still hasn't happened, and when you consider the factors listed above it's extremely unlikely that it ever will.  Oh, you'll have the guys who come in and make the ESPN highlight reels for a year or two that everybody will fawn over, but the reality is if you want to be a pro quarterback with a lasting career, you must learn to be a passer first and a runner only occasionally or as needed. 

 

Anybody who can't do that will have a nice three or four year run before they flame out and are eventually forgotten.

 

The good news for us: Newton can pass.  He can also run, but as time goes on (and he gets better linemen protecting him) you're naturally going to see that side of his game lessen.

 

Young bucks who care about highlight reels more than they care about real success can whine all they want, but that's reality.

Are you sure it's not already happening and you're just ignoring it. The college game is centered mostly around dual threat QBs. In fact, a QB have to be sold as mobile to be considered in the 1st round these days. I don't think you're paying attention. Pay attention to the QBs drafted in the last few years since Cam and those that will be drafted drafted high the next few years.



#24 Haplo E

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:08 AM

Cam is tough to beat, but a great D can severely limit a "running QB" if they can't fire from the pocket.

 

Mike Vick can run like the wind blows, but never became a great passer.  He would have highlight games, and then tank the next one.

 

Steve Young, Cunningham, Elway, Tarkenton, etc....all of them could run, but you better be able to spin it to win it.

I think Weis is referring to dual threat QBs. Not RBs playing QBs. All the QBs in the league right now can fire from the pocket.



#25 thefuzz

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:09 AM

Are you sure it's not already happening and you're just ignoring it. The college game is centered mostly around dual threat QBs. In fact, a QB have to be sold as mobile to be considered in the 1st round these days. I don't think you're paying attention. Pay attention to the QBs drafted in the last few years since Cam and those that will be drafted drafted high the next few years.

 

Are you telling me that if Manning 1 and Rivers were sitting there they wouldn't be drafted in the 1st?

 

 

Yes, the first couple years in the NFL are a bit easier for a mobile QB, however if he can't hit the back shoulder he won't be around long.  QB's that run and can't pass are like pros that putt for pars, and dogs that chase cars....they just won't be around long.



#26 Stroupe-a-loop

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:27 AM

Before Russell Wilson, who can pass really well, superbowl champions are guys like Flacco, Manning, Brees, Brady, and other Manning. I think immobile, pass first guys are doing ok too.

Edited by Stroupe-a-loop, 25 July 2014 - 11:31 AM.


#27 Riverboat Ron

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:31 AM

Give me a QB that throws for 5500 yards 60 tds and runs for 2000 yards and 15 tds.

#28 -13 Amp-

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:42 AM

Before Russell Wilson, who can pass really well, superbowl champions are guys like Flacco, Manning, Brees, Brady, and other Manning. I think immobile, pass first guys are doing ok too.

 

Big Ben is conveniently missing



#29 Stroupe-a-loop

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:50 AM

Big Ben is conveniently missing


Ah yes, I forgot the "mobile" Ben Roethlisberger who rushed for over 200 yards once in his career.

#30 Mr. Scot

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 01:11 PM

Are you sure it's not already happening and you're just ignoring it. The college game is centered mostly around dual threat QBs. In fact, a QB have to be sold as mobile to be considered in the 1st round these days. I don't think you're paying attention. Pay attention to the QBs drafted in the last few years since Cam and those that will be drafted drafted high the next few years.

 

 

Quite sure.  The guys who can run but never turn into effective passers come in with flash but fade very quickly.

 

Pay attention to the QBs that have long term success rather than just make nice highlight reels for a few years then disappear.

 

As others have mentioned, pretty much all the elite QBs in the NFL are still passers first. 

 

You can wish for it all you want but it's not gonna happen.


Edited by Mr. Scot, 25 July 2014 - 01:11 PM.



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