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Darth Biscuit

Kansas Law Requiring Proof of Citizenship to Vote Struck Down

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https://www.yahoo.com/news/judge-kansas-cannot-require-proof-citizenship-vote-230214987--election.html

 

Quote

The ruling by U.S. District Judge Julie Robinson is the latest setback for Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, who has championed such laws and led President Donald Trump's now-defunct voter fraud commission. The 118-page decision came in two consolidated cases challenging a Kansas voter registration law requiring people to provide documents such as a birth certificate, U.S. passport or naturalization papers.

The decision strikes down the Kansas proof-of-citizenship registration law and makes permanent an earlier injunction that had temporarily blocked it.

In an extraordinary rebuke, the judge also ordered Kobach on Monday to complete an additional six hours of legal education on top of other requirements before he can renew his law license for the upcoming year. She imposed the sanction for his numerous disclosure violations.

 

OK, so I get it why republicans are doing these things... they are in fact vote suppression efforts...

Having said that, why is it not constitutional to require ID for voter REGISTRATION?  That's the part I'm not getting here...   the whole "show me your papers" thing when it's time to vote I get... but to register?

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I agree with you. How is citizenship verified before registering? I think citizens should be automatically registered at birth or naturalization. Literally everyone should be registered to vote as a condition of their citizenship. You have the choice to not exercise that right but registration shouldn't stop you from exercising that right. It also makes sense to me that at the registration you are issued a free of charge voter ID that you present when voting basically saying I'm me, I'm here and I'm going to vote. None of that seems unreasonable to me. Am I missing something?

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35 minutes ago, Moorgan said:

I agree with you. How is citizenship verified before registering? I think citizens should be automatically registered at birth or naturalization. Literally everyone should be registered to vote as a condition of their citizenship. You have the choice to not exercise that right but registration shouldn't stop you from exercising that right. It also makes sense to me that at the registration you are issued a free of charge voter ID that you present when voting basically saying I'm me, I'm here and I'm going to vote. None of that seems unreasonable to me. Am I missing something?

Thats the deal.

 

We keep records of citizenship for social security and for selective service (tying to the 18th birthday).  Automated voter registration when you turn 18  - none of this dumb bs about needing to actually sign up to be able to vote.  We all have the right as citizens these dates and it should be given at 18.

 

What seems odd to me is we should not have polling places serving as a bar bouncer role - if I want to change my hair style will I be denyed a vote?  What if I am transgender and present as female do I lose my right?  We literally have NO voter fraud problem so providing picture ID only creates a way to stop legal votes from being cast.  If voter fraud was an issue I would be more apt to look for a solution but why spend millions of dollars to solve a problem that does not exist knowing the solution causes problems itself.

 

To the OP - states actually do a good job using databases to match citizens with voter registrations.  The ID thing is kinda pointless as the random joe signing you up has no way to really determine if you are faking it or not.  The system matching is the best method we have until automated registration of all citizens.

 

 

 

Edited by Fryfan
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1 hour ago, Fryfan said:

Thats the deal.

 

We keep records of citizenship for social security and for selective service (tying to the 18th birthday).  Automated voter registration when you turn 18  - none of this dumb bs about needing to actually sign up to be able to vote.  We all have the right as citizens these dates and it should be given at 18.

 

What seems odd to me is we should not have polling places serving as a bar bouncer role - if I want to change my hair style will I be denyed a vote?  What if I am transgender and present as female do I lose my right?  We literally have NO voter fraud problem so providing picture ID only creates a way to stop legal votes from being cast.  If voter fraud was an issue I would be more apt to look for a solution but why spend millions of dollars to solve a problem that does not exist knowing the solution causes problems itself.

 

To the OP - states actually do a good job using databases to match citizens with voter registrations.  The ID thing is kinda pointless as the random joe signing you up has no way to really determine if you are faking it or not.  The system matching is the best method we have until automated registration of all citizens.

 

 

 

Agreed. Auto voter registration would automatically register everyone as an Independent. If you want party affiliation then you would have to change it yourself. Additionally, I think it should be a chip ID card that simply confirms that you are a US citizen and eligible to vote. But in the end, yes, I don't see voter fraud as a widescale problem either.

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2 hours ago, Moorgan said:

I agree with you. How is citizenship verified before registering? I think citizens should be automatically registered at birth or naturalization. Literally everyone should be registered to vote as a condition of their citizenship. You have the choice to not exercise that right but registration shouldn't stop you from exercising that right. It also makes sense to me that at the registration you are issued a free of charge voter ID that you present when voting basically saying I'm me, I'm here and I'm going to vote. None of that seems unreasonable to me. Am I missing something?

yes this please

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I would be totally down with auto registration at birth, or 18, or upon naturalization or whatever...  that sounds like a fine plan.  Why not?

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2 hours ago, Darth Biscuit said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/judge-kansas-cannot-require-proof-citizenship-vote-230214987--election.html

 

 

OK, so I get it why republicans are doing these things... they are in fact vote suppression efforts...

Having said that, why is it not constitutional to require ID for voter REGISTRATION?  That's the part I'm not getting here...   the whole "show me your papers" thing when it's time to vote I get... but to register?

Because registering is a prereq for voting so the same suppressive roadblocks would exist in both cases.

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I feel a little weird with you guys completely agreeing with me. Quick someone insult someone.

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I'm 34 but I feel like when I was mailed my selective service paperwork when I was 18 that it also included my voter registration paperwork in the same package.

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4 minutes ago, Moorgan said:

I feel a little weird with you guys completely agreeing with me. Quick someone insult someone.

only the left has chimed in in the thread so far. once a conservative who relies on voter suppression to keep their ideology in power finds the thread they'll find something to bash about your idea.

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3 minutes ago, Floppin said:

I'm 34 but I feel like when I was mailed my selective service paperwork when I was 18 that it also included my voter registration paperwork in the same package.

I'm 37, and mine did too IIRC.

Registration at birth makes complete sense.

I think part of the problem of identification lies within localized districting, though. Lots of people don't vote where they are born, and I think a lot of voter fraud, at least perceived, could take place with people voting in the incorrect places or even multiple places.

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7 minutes ago, Floppin said:

Because registering is a prereq for voting so the same suppressive roadblocks would exist in both cases.

But there has to be SOME method in place to register, no?  See below, they sent you your SS paperwork (and possibly your voter reg)... how?  You were on a list of citizens, no?

6 minutes ago, Floppin said:

I'm 34 but I feel like when I was mailed my selective service paperwork when I was 18 that it also included my voter registration paperwork in the same package.

Why not just auto register you to vote then?

 

Obviously republicans all over the country have used this as a voter disenfranchisement technique, of that there is no question.  However, ID is required for literally everything you do in life...  whether it's a list in some gov't office or whatever, somebody, somewhere says "hey this guy is a citizen" register him... no?

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6 minutes ago, rodeo said:

only the left has chimed in in the thread so far. once a conservative who relies on voter suppression to keep their ideology in power finds the thread they'll find something to bash about your idea.

I don't consider myself left. I try to be rational about everything but certain issues I know I'm not.

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2 minutes ago, Bronn said:

I'm 37, and mine did too IIRC.

Registration at birth makes complete sense.

I think part of the problem of identification lies within localized districting, though. Lots of people don't vote where they are born, and I think a lot of voter fraud, at least perceived, could take place with people voting in the incorrect places or even multiple places.

I've gone to wrong place to vote before and they don't let you. Some are more helpful than others. I've been told that I can't vote there and basically told to piss off and then I've had other places look up where I'm actually supposed to be voting and been given the location address. This usually happens after redistricting. People are supposed to register every time they move to avoid confusion but that's not always easy for some.

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4 minutes ago, Darth Biscuit said:

But there has to be SOME method in place to register, no?  See below, they sent you your SS paperwork (and possibly your voter reg)... how?  You were on a list of citizens, no?

Why not just auto register you to vote then?

 

Obviously republicans all over the country have used this as a voter disenfranchisement technique, of that there is no question.  However, ID is required for literally everything you do in life...  whether it's a list in some gov't office or whatever, somebody, somewhere says "hey this guy is a citizen" register him... no?

Yeah I understand what you're saying and I believe everyone should be auto registered. I was just explaining what the problem was with requiring ID to register as you seemed confused as to why it would be.

Edited by Floppin

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