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As much grief as I've given them, I think the Panther FO has been brilliant lately


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#46 Kevin Greene

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Posted 06 March 2010 - 11:31 AM

that isn't the way they do things. they don't go after the high profile player and have success with it. they go after those players who have yet to peak. those teams that are going big right now are going after guys who have peaked.

how the panthers get good players is
1) drafting them
2) go out and get a bunch of guys with potential who may have been around for a while but have never reached what they are capable of. they work these guys and pick the best. how do you think we got diggs and brayton to begin with? how did we get jake? these weren't the guys that would go early in the first day of free agency. how about chris harris? did he come from some blockbuster multi-pick trade? had he accomplished anything before he came here? had he made his mark? nope.

that we haven't picked anyone up yet isn't problem. we aren't going to find the best players that way. we will go cheap and it will work.

at the beginning of the week we had people in here getting nervous and complaining that we haven't heard anything about anyone getting tendered and the fear was we weren't going to do anything. that was pretty far from reality and they, in fact, did a whole lot more than probably anyone thought they would.

why would you think they are going to fall asleep at the wheel now?

you realize that there is a number of players that they have to go into mini camps and training camp. they have to get players. some of these players are going to be diamonds in the rough. they will be instrumental in the success of the team going forward. they will seem to come from nowhere but they will do well here.

we beg for the younger guys to have a chance to prove themselves....well now they have it. you can't give them a chance without taking the opportunity away from others. you can't build for the future when you have old and sentimental favorites whose time has come and gone and who have peaked in the way.



Some of those players are out there right now. Or do you just want to wait for the final roster cuts scrap heap at the end of pre season? Nobody is suggesting we pay what the Giants did for a Safety. The sooner we get these guys into OTAs the better.

#47 niblet

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Posted 06 March 2010 - 11:53 AM

I'm not normally one to bash the heads in charge (nor praise them), but what about what they've done so far is brilliant?

Peppers didn't want to come back and wouldn't accept our offer. They let him walk. OMFG genius! As if they had a real decision to make there.

And what's so brilliant about cutting half the team? I'm glad we no longer have to worry about Delhomme under center, but how did it come to players like Diggs, Brayton, and Lewis somehow being addition by subtraction? We are worse without them--not by great margins, but still worse. We aren't big players in FA and have relatively terrible draft picks this year, so it's not like these moves were made to make room for something better.

Is it just because we are actually doing something that has people so giddy? Change is good? Well, change can be negative too.

#48 Urrymonster

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Posted 06 March 2010 - 11:56 AM

I still think people are undervaluing Diggs. Neither Anderson or Connor could beat him out by performance, so makes it easier on them this way I guess.


I agree with you here, however Diggs missed a fair bit of the season at points and they actually got to see Connor/Anderson in his place. It is likely the opportunity they needed in proper game time that swayed them

Lewis was pretty solid. He actually approached us about a restructure so as to avoid that large bonus, but we passed.


This is actually incorrect. He approached us about an EXTENSION. Which would have meant we would have had to keep him for longer an would have caused the money to just be moved back a year or two. When you have Tyler, Leonard, Hayden, Irvinon the roster looking just as competant, then there is no need to extend a 32 year old. Incidently he had already restructrd, so there was no way he could of done it again.

Nick Hayden we kept (just lol), along with two reclamation project DTs coming off of IR. Irvin gets a pass, and I guess we can hope the headcase from Indy keeps it together.


Hayden is making the absolute bare minimum he can as he is an exclusive rights free agent. His cost efficiency to talent would have far out weighed Lewis and frankly Lewis failed completely at generating presure last year, which was supposed to be the reason he was starting.

Cutting Kemo, Jake and Peppers I absolutely get.

I mean, it's great we're younger and cheaper. I don't see how on Earth you can say better right now. Still, a ways to go in FA and maybe we hit a home run come the draft.


Not many would say we are better. However we are now removing the average veterans who had a promising player directly behind them, which should generate a much hungrier and determined team. You can guarentee that young guys give a lot more than the 30 somethings, simply because thee guys are still fighting for their careers to even start. We might just see a much more physical and passionate team next season.

#49 Udogg

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Posted 06 March 2010 - 12:03 PM

Diggs was solid, but the end of year Anderson was playing better.
Brayton was solid, but Johnson was playing better than him at the end of the year (not beginning).
Peppers is a beast, there is a big drop off with Brown.
All the DT's we brought in last year seemed to play well, so the loss of Lewis isn't that big. Wasn't like he was dominating. Plus Hayden probably fits into what meeks wants.

We are hurt in the depth department, but FO did good job bringing in replacements and such over the year. Plus some of the draft picks like Munnerlyn, Martin, Brown etc.. played better than expected. We are ok, especially if we can get the WR position sorted.

#50 klumme

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Posted 06 March 2010 - 12:14 PM

Our D-line was garbage last year until Thomas came along. So I find it hard to see it as a bad thing we now start over with the young guys we have. Both Leonard and Tank showed promise last year so give them a shot. Ed was good in Indy when he did not smoke weed :) And we have Irvin. I think we are set at DT actually.

At De we need a little right now we have one starter caliber player in Johnson and maybe Brown can do something. We need a vet or two here, that could be Kampmann ( prob not ) Burgess og even Charles Grant og what about Bratyon I will not rule him out yet.

Diggs was solid but Anderson showed promise last year and come on LB in this scheme is a dime a dozen we will be all right.

Delhomme well that I think we can all agree on. Keeping him would be nice b/c he knows the system but it will also be with the risk of dividing the locker.

#51 rayzor

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Posted 06 March 2010 - 12:45 PM

diggs was slowing down a lot during the course of the year and was seeing less play time as a result. his replacement was inevitable...esp. on a defense that has to be fast to work like meeks'. he was a sold player but his time had come and was nearly gone. he held on to his spot by a thread the past couple years and that thread was growing increasingly bare. it might have been a little early to release him but not by much. at least we KNOW that we have to address that situation now. much better to be in that situation than to hope he could perform at a high level and address other areas only to find out that he couldn't.

re: lewis....i haven't been sold on his sticking around for a while. we have so much young talent there that for a team wanting to build for the future, it was a shame to not give them a chance to start. we want to have a team that develops talent? then give them a chance to start. there is no better way to get better than to get in the game. we were looking at the most 2 or 3 more years from lewis, each year with him slowing down and becoming less effective but keeping a starting spot because of fox's loyalty issues and preference for vets to have the starting job. what we could have is 8-10 years from a couple of young and talented DTs that we have on the roster right now or can get this year. sorry, but i'm going to take what makes us stronger for years over what makes us stronger for one year every day.

brayton...this is one player i hope we get back but in losing him we give johnson and brown a lot more opportunity for growth and more responsibility. we have two players that could turn into studs for us. i'm all for giving them a chance to achieve that. we got brayton off the scrap heap. if we want a vet to come in and do well, we can get another one from the same place. who knows? maybe we get him back. regardless, brown and johnson have enough invested in them and have done enough to make the front office believe that they will be enough of a cornerstone on that line going forward. we need depth but we don't need to overpay for it.

#52 pstall

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Posted 06 March 2010 - 12:51 PM

The Panthers seem to do well drafting definsively and rb's. TE's haven't been world beaters but I guess they don't need to be.
They got rid of alot of stop gap players. They also lost a huge piece on D with Pep.
I think cra said it best. They are getting cheap and having easy contracts for the new coaching regime for 2011 should there even be a season then.

#53 Snake

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Posted 06 March 2010 - 12:56 PM

The Panthers seem to do well drafting definsively and rb's. TE's haven't been world beaters but I guess they don't need to be.
They got rid of alot of stop gap players. They also lost a huge piece on D with Pep.
I think cra said it best. They are getting cheap and having easy contracts for the new coaching regime for 2011 should there even be a season then.




Kinda sucks though if your a fan paying hundreds of dollars to see what could be a sub par team. The FA class sucks though so I cant really blame them for not giving 40 mill to a scrub.

#54 rayzor

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Posted 06 March 2010 - 01:00 PM

The Panthers seem to do well drafting definsively and rb's. TE's haven't been world beaters but I guess they don't need to be.
They got rid of alot of stop gap players. They also lost a huge piece on D with Pep.
I think cra said it best. They are getting cheap and having easy contracts for the new coaching regime for 2011 should there even be a season then.


even if this is true...i don't have much of a problem with it. there were so many people complaining that the panthers were "mortgaging the future" in the way they had treated the draft. well...now they are looking ahead. play to win now or set the stage for a new regime to come in and build the way he wants to. older players would be the first to go in a HC change anyway.

i'm just taking the long view here and am pretty happy with it. i'm also of the opinion that those that we lost are not irreplaceable in the short term and that we have enough to build a solid 2010 team with. there are only a couple positions that need anything close to desperate attention. most everything is just a matter of depth or bringing in competition. there is plenty of time and will be plenty of opportunities in the long offseason to address those situaions and do it in a cost effective manner.

#55 CRA

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Posted 06 March 2010 - 01:02 PM

people seem to be overlooking how little the panthers ever do in the big FA market. they don't go big and when they do they generally fall flat on their face.

where they have their success is in getting several prospects with good potential who haven't yet hit their peak looking for that diamond in the rough.

FA has just started and it's a long offseason. there is still plenty of ricks to go through to find replacement parts for those players we lost who were all pretty much scraps when they got here in the first place.

where did we get these guys we lost? where did we get jake, diggs, lewis, and brayton? what about hollis thomas?

other guys we lost like kemo and landon johnson....they were pretty big FA moves and how well did they pay off? what about keyshawn johnson or justin hartwig? david carr? those were huge FA moves for us and what happened there?

we do much better at drafting players and picking up other peoples cast offs than going after the hot commodities that go earliest in FA. you don't risk a lot by getting them and you have less chance of them having only played for a paycheck.

these high profile FAs that went early yesterday got what they wanted most...a paycheck. the guys we pick up are those who are just wanting a chance to prove themselves and they will work harder than those who just wanted a fat paycheck.


well, the Panthers are never very active in FA b/c they have not had a reason to for the majority of Fox's stay.....he has never purged the team and has always been looking for one or two pieces to what he considered a team ready to make a run at the playoffs.

That imo is why the lack of draft picks and inactivity is an issue to some following this purge....b/c under the current scenario teams are active and go heavy in the draft. Carolina will do neither......and is basically flushing this season down, with Fox.....and will see what 2012 brings.....and they will have plenty of cash to go heavy then under the new coach/system.

Personally, i think Fox's comment during his press conference spoke volumes about him and Jake.......Fox is going to do his best knowing he is done. 10% each year you are liked less and less......Fox knows Carolina isn't bringing him back and this purge is part of the post Fox prep work imo.

Long term....this is good. I just think some are not realistic about what is going on now and what to expect in 2010.

Edited by CRA, 06 March 2010 - 01:06 PM.


#56 rayzor

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Posted 06 March 2010 - 01:12 PM

well, the Panthers are never very active in FA b/c they have not had a reason to for the majority of Fox's stay.....he has never purged the team and has always been looking for one or two pieces to what he considered a team ready to make a run at the playoffs.

That imo is why the lack of draft picks and inactivity is an issue to some following this purge....b/c under the current scenario teams are active and go heavy in the draft. Carolina will do neither......and is basically flushing this season down, with Fox.....and will see what 2012 brings.....and they will have plenty of cash to go heavy then under the new coach/system.

Personally, i think Fox's comment during his press conference spoke volumes about him and Jake.......Fox is going to do his best knowing he is done. 10% each year you are liked less and less......Fox knows Carolina isn't bringing him back and this purge is part of the post Fox prep work imo.

i think you are right. i'm not believing that the 2010 season is a wash, i think we can still be solid contenders esp. considering the schedule and much of the players that are still in place.

with that said, i think no matter what happens short of a superbowl win that fox is gone after the season. who ever comes in will have as an ideal a situation to build as they could ask for. if moore is great next year then the new coach has something to work with. if he isn't then he won't be around. it's only a one year deal. the new coach can start from scratch.

i just hope that we don't give up the 2011 1st round pick (or any for that matter) this year. i want us to go into 2011 with a full number of picks. after all the losses so far this year we should have a couple of comp picks coming our way as well. i'm liking the way things are shaping up.

#57 Kevin Greene

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Posted 06 March 2010 - 01:17 PM

The Panthers seem to do well drafting definsively and rb's. TE's haven't been world beaters but I guess they don't need to be.
They got rid of alot of stop gap players. They also lost a huge piece on D with Pep.
I think cra said it best. They are getting cheap and having easy contracts for the new coaching regime for 2011 should there even be a season then.



Well yeah because you have to take into consideration what kind of a roster Cowher will want.

#58 CRA

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Posted 06 March 2010 - 01:29 PM

i think you are right. i'm not believing that the 2010 season is a wash, i think we can still be solid contenders esp. considering the schedule and much of the players that are still in place.

with that said, i think no matter what happens short of a superbowl win that fox is gone after the season. who ever comes in will have as an ideal a situation to build as they could ask for. if moore is great next year then the new coach has something to work with. if he isn't then he won't be around. it's only a one year deal. the new coach can start from scratch.

i just hope that we don't give up the 2011 1st round pick (or any for that matter) this year. i want us to go into 2011 with a full number of picks. after all the losses so far this year we should have a couple of comp picks coming our way as well. i'm liking the way things are shaping up.


i agree.

I like Moore, my only worry is he might be put in a horrible scenario that will make his stay short. A lack of defense (which is reasonable imo to expect) and Carolina will be forced to go heavy on the pass in games.......and we all know Carolina is a one WR offense and no rookie (or Jarrett) is going to change that. I could see Moore being in a bad spot for his first year as the starter......

I may seem negative on these boards, but i think what they are doing in a positive when looking at 2012 and what the new coach will be able to do. Carolina is doing what needs to be done and looks to be doing it well. They don't want to bring in vets to deals that the new coach will have to bother with whem implementing what it is he is going to do.