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Hines Ward or Steve Smith? Tired of seeing this garbage, to smack wih you


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#91 Chimera

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 06:24 PM

Was this your post, Al Bundy?
http://www.footballs...c.php?p=9497891

#92 Kurb

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 06:25 PM

LOL. Tommy Maddox. Because he was a great quarterback. -_-


So basically you want to argue opinions endlessly. One person has already brought your argument to the ground yet you linger like a bad fart to argue the minor points.

Shoo away newb.

#93 Rhys

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 06:26 PM

LOL, if numbers aren't important why do you keep talking about the NUMBER of Smiths fumbles, or the NUMBER of 1000 yard seasons Ward has. It seems the numbers only matter when they are in Wards favor.

You ain't just on Wards dick, you're having his baby.


He's been having it both ways for the entire thread.

His best 'evidence' are these completely subjective statements.

He talks about Ward being surrounded by talent and then disregards what that means for coverage schemes. He talks about numbers of fumbles and then disregards how many were lost based on the ratio to catches. Talks about how their o-line hurts their passing game and disregards Jake's ability as a hindrance to Smith's success.

This was a stupid argument when he started it.

#94 Al Bundy

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 06:28 PM

Was this your post, Al Bundy?
http://www.footballs...c.php?p=9497891


Lolwut. No.

One person has already brought your argument to the ground...


Where did that happen?

#95 Urrymonster

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 06:30 PM

Fantastic post, Monster!

Finally, one of you were able to bring out a LEGITIMATE argument. :hurray:

But.. you brought in numbers. In the OP, I stated that "this isn't about numbers".

Ward is capable of more than his numbers show. He has constantly had talent around him that take away from his numbers. If he were the only guy, his ability would show in his numbers. Smith has been the only legitimate receiver the Panthers have had for quite some time. So, that makes his numbers shine a bit more. But in the same breath, Ward puts up equal numbers, while being surrounded by big time play makers.

That is why I believe Ward packs more ability. If he didn't have others hogging the light, he'd shine.


I have news for you. 'Numbers' are the recording facts of what a player is doing in the game. If you disregard what they have actually done and merely hypothesise about what they COULD do, based on a completely subjective and unknown commodity in their 'ability', then you can argue JaMarcus Russell is the most naturally gifted quarterback in the league.

You asked who has the most ability, I answered. I even broke it down into sections

Athletic ability = Smith
Mental ability = Equal
Technical ability (hands/fumbles/blocking) = Equal

So you have gone from beating the dead horse about the fumbling issues to deciding Smith has been the only legitimate receiver on the Panthers, whereas Ward has had a supporting cast. Considering that, I want you to answer the following question.

What other receivers has Ward had?

Bare in mind that Smith has had Proehl, Muhammad, Johnson and a couple of productive seasons from Carter.

Holmes has put up steady number 2 numbers which were eclipsed regularly by Muhammad until this last year. Randall El did no more than 40 catches a season. I honestly can't think of too many more...

However, that is all pointless. You are arguing about 'what could have been' with Ward and in the same breath dismissing the better things Smith has actually achieved, which is completely backward logic. Here is a different spin on Smith's situation. How much more damage could he do if there was a consistent young threat opposite him? Or how about giving Smith a QB of Roethlisbergers calibre?

See? It's easy to make arguments based on things that could have happened. However, all we can actually do is judge this on what both receivers have actually done in their careers. When you do that, Smith wins.

#96 Al Bundy

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 06:32 PM

He talks about Ward being surrounded by talent and then disregards what that means for coverage schemes.

When were coverage schemes mentioned?

He talks about numbers of fumbles and then disregards how many were lost based on the ratio to catches.

Yeah? Where? Exactly. I disregarded the lost because they can't control that. Go back and read that post...

Talks about how their o-line hurts their passing game and disregards Jake's ability as a hindrance to Smith's success.


Yeah? Where? Exactly. Jake has taken his team to the Super Bowl. Yet it's ok to bring up Tommy fuging Maddox?

#97 Urrymonster

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 06:34 PM

Yeah? Where? Exactly. Jake has taken his team to the Super Bowl. Yet it's ok to bring up Tommy f**king Maddox?


Roethlisberger has been there for 6 of Ward's 12 seasons
Maddox was the starter for 2 of Ward's 12 seasons

Edited by Urrymonster, 23 May 2010 - 06:37 PM.


#98 necroplasm

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 06:34 PM

http://www.footballs...c.php?p=9497891


lol.. at that guy who said having more catches makes you a better receiver.
In reality, the more yards you have with less catches makes you better.

More catches is more based on the QB play and coverage on a WR.

#99 Chimera

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 06:36 PM

I wish I had the photoshop abilities to mix Al Bundy, the Steelers logo, and a troll into one picture.

#100 Floppin

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 06:37 PM

When were coverage schemes mentioned?

I believe its your failure to take them into account that he is talking about. You state that Hines has put up all these numbers with a fantastic supporting cast. Well, I would argue, and others as well considering its the reason he called you out on its "dismissal", that by not having a fantastic supporting cast coverages were allowed the luxury of triple teaming Steve Smith, and yet he puts up the numbers that he has. Wards has but to beat single coverage. Smith has to beat routinely three, and always at least two defenders to make a 5 yard catch.

#101 Peppers90 NC

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 06:37 PM

Give me production, Smith>Ward.

#102 Al Bundy

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 06:40 PM

I have news for you. 'Numbers' are the recording facts of what a player is doing in the game. If you disregard what they have actually done and merely hypothesise about what they COULD do, based on a completely subjective and unknown commodity in their 'ability', then you can argue JaMarcus Russell is the most naturally gifted quarterback in the league.

You asked who has the most ability, I answered. I even broke it down into sections

Athletic ability = Smith
Mental ability = Equal
Technical ability (hands/fumbles/blocking) = Equal

So you have gone from beating the dead horse about the fumbling issues to deciding Smith has been the only legitimate receiver on the Panthers, whereas Ward has had a supporting cast. Considering that, I want you to answer the following question.

What other receivers has Ward had?

Bare in mind that Smith has had Proehl, Muhammad, Johnson and a couple of productive seasons from Carter.

Holmes has put up steady number 2 numbers which were eclipsed regularly by Muhammad until this last year. Randall El did no more than 40 catches a season. I honestly can't think of too many more...

However, that is all pointless. You are arguing about 'what could have been' with Ward and in the same breath dismissing the better things Smith has actually achieved, which is completely backward logic. Here is a different spin on Smith's situation. How much more damage could he do if there was a consistent young threat opposite him? Or how about giving Smith a QB of Roethlisbergers calibre?

See? It's easy to make arguments based on things that could have happened. However, all we can actually do is judge this on what both receivers have actually done in their careers. When you do that, Smith wins.


Yes, yes, yes.

Ward's had Holmes, El, Miller.. and let's go waaay back to Plaxico.

I am speaking in "what if's". Buuuuuut... everything aside, they still equal out.

Ward has had players to take away from his shine. Steve hasn't.

Let's give Steve a legit supporting cast. How much more damage could he do? I say.. none. Like Ward, they'd take from his shine.



And I applaud you for not making silly plays on Ben's name.

#103 YourMomsLover

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 06:40 PM

Guys we can't win against Al Bundy. He knows everything about everything, and is never wrong!

#104 Kurb

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 06:43 PM

Fantastic post, Monster!

Finally, one of you were able to bring out a LEGITIMATE argument. :hurray:

But.. you brought in numbers. In the OP, I stated that "this isn't about numbers".

So you want to argue who "looks better"
When the Numbers end the argument you head to things with no tangible measurement.


Ward is capable of more than his numbers show. He has constantly had talent around him that take away from his numbers. If he were the only guy, his ability would show in his numbers. Smith has been the only legitimate receiver the Panthers have had for quite some time. So, that makes his numbers shine a bit more. But in the same breath, Ward puts up equal numbers, while being surrounded by big time play makers.


So the reason Ward has low stats is that he has more talent around him ? Are you so stupid you don't realize that if Ward was so elite he would shine above those around him? Elite WR's shine no matter the talent around them. They become the THREAT not the "guy sharing the spotlight". If Ward was so good Plax wouldn't have been the guy when he was there.

Smith has been the only WR threat that the Panthers have had for his entire career. He has been double and triple covered 95% of his career and despite all that he has consistently been in the conversation of best WR's in the league.

That is why I believe Ward packs more ability. If he didn't have others hogging the light, he'd shine.


No you believe it because you are Steelers dickriding child who knows little about football outside of your precious Black and Yellow. I appreciate your attempts to have a clue, but you have failed.

Ward is great, I wish he could have been a Panther he would have been a great compliment to 89 ,but make no mistake he is not in the same conversation as 89 in terms of Speed, Big Play Ability, Play Making, and Game Changing ability.

FFS where is Fiz he is supposed to deal with bullshit like this....:spam:

#105 Al Bundy

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 06:43 PM

Guys we can't win against Al Bundy. He knows everything about everything, and is never wrong!


Not at all. Just wish more of you were like your fanmate Monster over here.


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