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Clausen - Personal Beef with Smitty Affecting His Play?/Overall Improvement?


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#76 Icege

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 07:11 PM

As somebody that has been patient with Clausen during the season, I for one can comfortably say that I found Skelton to be much more poised and relaxed than Clausen. He made better looking throws, and we might be talking about the game in an entirely different manner had players not dropped potential catches.

I still think Clausen will develop more and more with time. Once things start flowing better for him, I expect him to be much more of a cerebral quarterback. At least I hope so :lol: So long as our first pick in the draft isn't a bust and fills a position with need, I'm happy.

#77 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 07:34 PM

Anyone only using Bradford's last two games to compare is getting really picky.

Bradford played the #8 and #16 ranked defenses.
Clausen played the #15 and #27 ranked defenses.

Clausen also had over 100 yard rusher each game, Bradford didn't. Just some perspective.


Then compare their numbers against Arizona. Clausens numbers against Arizona were slightly better than Bradford's numbers.

Fwiw, I started out this year saying that Moore should be the starter, and if he was healthy, I would still say that. And I have some issues with Clausen's mechanics. In particular, his low delivery and slow windup are going to be problems.

But I think the decision making expectations for a QB in his 8th start are completely unrealistic. No rookie QB with rookie wide receivers, an injury plagued Oline and a lameduck coach is going to do well. Name one QB who has had to deal with all of those issues who has had even a decent rookie season.

#78 CRA

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 07:44 PM

Then compare their numbers against Arizona. Clausens numbers against Arizona were slightly better than Bradford's numbers.

Fwiw, I started out this year saying that Moore should be the starter, and if he was healthy, I would still say that. And I have some issues with Clausen's mechanics. In particular, his low delivery and slow windup are going to be problems.

But I think the decision making expectations for a QB in his 8th start are completely unrealistic. No rookie QB with rookie wide receivers, an injury plagued Oline and a lameduck coach is going to do well. Name one QB who has had to deal with all of those issues who has had even a decent rookie season.


Bradford and Colt have great WRs to throw to? Carolina OL has been playing decent as of late and have given Clausen a dang good running game as of late.

Plenty of QBs have been in overall comparable positions as far as OL/WR play goes......and showed more promise. Matt Moore looked to be ahead of Clausaen when he was a rookie. Better basics and a better understanding of what a QB needs to do at this level.

#79 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 08:04 PM

Bradford and Colt have great WRs to throw to? Carolina OL has been playing decent as of late and have given Clausen a dang good running game as of late.

Plenty of QBs have been in overall comparable positions as far as OL/WR play goes......and showed more promise. Matt Moore looked to be ahead of Clausaen when he was a rookie. Better basics and a better understanding of what a QB needs to do at this level.



They definitely have more experienced receivers than we do. Smith is pretty much it for us. Gettis and Lafell have been getting better, but they still have a ways to go.

The run blocking has been better as of late, the pass blocking has only been slightly better. But if fans look at his numbers (the only objective analysis), Clausen has been playing better since the oline has been playing better.

Over his first four starts, completion percentage was below 50% 3 out of 4 times. His average yards per pass play over the last four games has improved slightly and he has started throwing the ball downfield some. He really threaded the needle on the pass to Steve Smith when Steve landed out of bounds. Also after 7 fumbles in his first three games, he has had one in the last 5 games. Those are real improvements that in the rush to bash him, no one has mentioned.

I definitely 100% disagree that plenty of Quarterbacks have been placed in a similar situation and shown promise. I can't think of a one that has had so much working against him as Clausen and shown more promise or any promise. But thats something that can only be an opinion, so we will have to agree to disagree on that one.

#80 CRA

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 08:08 PM

They definitely have more experienced receivers than we do. Smith is pretty much it for us. Gettis and Lafell have been getting better, but they still have a ways to go.

The run blocking has been better as of late, the pass blocking has only been slightly better. But if fans look at his numbers (the only objective analysis), Clausen has been playing better since the oline has been playing better.

Over his first four starts, completion percentage was below 50% 3 out of 4 times. His average yards per pass play over the last four games has improved slightly and he has started throwing the ball downfield some. He really threaded the needle on the pass to Steve Smith when Steve landed out of bounds. Also after 7 fumbles in his first three games, he has had one in the last 5 games. Those are real improvements that in the rush to bash him, no one has mentioned.

I definitely 100% disagree that plenty of Quarterbacks have been placed in a similar situation and shown promise. I can't think of a one that has had so much working against him as Clausen and shown more promise or any promise. But thats something that can only be an opinion, so we will have to agree to disagree on that one.


Rams - leading WR in a 2nd year player in Amendola, 2nd leading WR is a 2nd year player in Gibson

Browns- leading WR is a RB, 2nd leading WR is a TE.

Clausen overall has better options at WR....even factoring in one is a rookie on most downs. Clausen just can't geti it to and doesn't try to use Smitty. Look at Smitty's production from last year and this year w/ Moore. That is on Clausen.

as of late, Clausen has had one of the top ground attacks in the entire NFL. That is why the Panthers have climbed to #12 b/c is has been THAT good.

I wouldn't say Clausen has really improved though.....he has overall stayed about the same imo. Doing the same things....nothing for the most part different.

I think it is wishful thinking that people are applying to make it out that Clausen has so much working against him. QB play has just been horrible this year. Moore included. Coaching/playcalling really is what it is in Carolina....about the same as always.

the 2nd half of the season thus far....Clausen hasn't been put in that bad of positions. Even early in the year....the Bengals and Bear games set up well even for a rookie QB to get a win w/ some decent rookie play.

Edited by CRA, 20 December 2010 - 08:14 PM.


#81 chef17

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 04:39 AM

So a lot of people say Clausen appears this bad because of the line and rookie WR, saying even Peyton Manning would be horrible in this situation. Yet when Moore was bad it was simply because he sucks. Am I the only one who sees the problem here? If Moore wasn't given the excuse that his supporting cast sucks, neither should Clausen.

#82 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 08:08 AM

Rams - leading WR in a 2nd year player in Amendola, 2nd leading WR is a 2nd year player in Gibson

Browns- leading WR is a RB, 2nd leading WR is a TE.

Clausen overall has better options at WR....even factoring in one is a rookie on most downs. Clausen just can't geti it to and doesn't try to use Smitty. Look at Smitty's production from last year and this year w/ Moore. That is on Clausen.

as of late, Clausen has had one of the top ground attacks in the entire NFL. That is why the Panthers have climbed to #12 b/c is has been THAT good.

I wouldn't say Clausen has really improved though.....he has overall stayed about the same imo. Doing the same things....nothing for the most part different. I think it is wishful thinking that people are applying to make it out that Clausen has so much working against him. QB play has just been horrible this year. Moore included. Coaching/playcalling really is what it is in Carolina....about the same as always.

the 2nd half of the season thus far....Clausen hasn't been put in that bad of positions. Even early in the year....the Bengals and Bear games set up well even for a rookie QB to get a win w/ some decent rookie play.




The numbers say otherwise. But to each his own.

#83 CRA

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 09:13 AM

The numbers say otherwise. But to each his own.


the number show he completes normally 50 something % of his passes for about 160-170 yards or so. Generally with an INT.

what steady improvement are you talking about in the #'s?

#84 neverlosethefeeling

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 12:42 PM

So a lot of people say Clausen appears this bad because of the line and rookie WR, saying even Peyton Manning would be horrible in this situation. Yet when Moore was bad it was simply because he sucks. Am I the only one who sees the problem here? If Moore wasn't given the excuse that his supporting cast sucks, neither should Clausen.


I'd be willing to give Matt Moore the same pass as Clausen. And that's not saying either one of them are excused because I think both have the potential to and should play better than they have. I also thought Fox threw Clausen in there pre-maturely. You think back to the beginning of the season, DeAngelo and Jonathan looked like high schoolers out there because they had no where to run. And that lies on the offensive line.
But if a team is able to shut down our run like every team did until lately, we're in trouble no matter who is under center.

#85 PantherProfessor

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 05:09 PM

he needs to put in a phone call to Jake. He made a living off terrible throws to 89, just heave it and leave it, smitty will do the rest.

maybe a crate of cactus coolers would smooth things over? :skep:

#86 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 10:19 PM

the number show he completes normally 50 something % of his passes for about 160-170 yards or so. Generally with an INT.

what steady improvement are you talking about in the #'s?


Not including the first game against Tampa
when He came in at the end of the game

Completion percentage per game. First four games, three were under 50%, since then all have been above 50%.

48%
52%
40%
44%
55%
57%
52%
58%
68%


Average yards per catch
Three of first four games under 3 ypc. Last 5 games, 5 or more ypc in four out of the five games..

First two games, six fumbles, since then 1.

#87 CRA

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 10:38 PM

Not including the first game against Tampa
when He came in at the end of the game

Completion percentage per game. First four games, three were under 50%, since then all have been above 50%.

48%
52%
40%
44%
55%
57%
52%
58%
68%


Average yards per catch
Three of first four games under 3 ypc. Last 5 games, 5 or more ypc in four out of the five games..

First two games, six fumbles, since then 1.


like I said in the post you quoted....50 something %.

Jimmy's first 3 starts (w/ little run support).
-He averaged 131 passing yards a game.
- with 2 INTs
-1 TD

Jimmy's last 3 starts (w/ what has been a great ground attack)
-He averaged 136 passing yards a game.
-with 2 INTs
- 1 TD

Pretty similar production from the pass game IMO

Edited by CRA, 21 December 2010 - 10:45 PM.


#88 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 11:58 PM

8 starts total

First four, lower percentage of passes completed for fewer ypc. Last four, higher percentage of passes completed with higher ypc. Passing game has been more efficient. Still not great, but obviously better.

#89 chef17

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 05:18 AM

I'd be willing to give Matt Moore the same pass as Clausen. And that's not saying either one of them are excused because I think both have the potential to and should play better than they have. I also thought Fox threw Clausen in there pre-maturely. You think back to the beginning of the season, DeAngelo and Jonathan looked like high schoolers out there because they had no where to run. And that lies on the offensive line.
But if a team is able to shut down our run like every team did until lately, we're in trouble no matter who is under center.


I don't think they deserve a pass either. Both get paid to perform, bottom line. I just find it funny how Clausen gets excuses but Moore simply sucked.

#90 CRA

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 09:01 AM

8 starts total

First four, lower percentage of passes completed for fewer ypc. Last four, higher percentage of passes completed with higher ypc. Passing game has been more efficient. Still not great, but obviously better.


my comment was he just hasn't shown steady improvement.

He has brought the same amount of production in the passing game now as he did at the beginning on the season. Numbers are almost identical in production from him.