Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Halfway to the answer


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
47 replies to this topic

#41 Woodie

Woodie

    Senior Member

  • Joined: 29-November 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 1,214
  • Reputation: 143
HUDDLER

Posted 31 January 2009 - 01:38 AM

Asomugha used to be a regular on ESPN's "Jacked Up" when they had it.

Hard hitting and solid fundamentals are not mutually exclusive. The best defenses have both, and there's no reason why we can't.

One of my big complaints about Trgovac is that fundamentals and discipline declined steadily under his watch.

Don't know about Asomugha on Jacked up (I found that segment totally useless, so rarely watched), but nevertheless, it is irrelevent to my point. He is so fundimentally sound that teams usually choose not to throw his way, which limits his chances for jacked up plays (which is why I used the example). The reason for this is that his man up defense is very sound and the chances of completing a pass on him is small, not because of any sort of reputation as a fierce hitter.

True, hard hitting and solid fundimentals do not have to be mutually exclusive, however, most times they are. Teams that do both well are very rare. Teams like the Steelers are the exception, not the rule. Typically, most teams known as big hitters are also teams known for poor tackling and inconsistent play, not strong fundimentals. The reason is simple, most players that are known as big hitters tend to lead with their shoulder while tucking their arm in order to make that bone jarring hit. However, that is, by definition, poor fundimentals.

As for the Panthers, within the last year or so, there has been a general shift in their hitting. In previous years, players such as Mike Minter and Thomas Davis (basically the players known for their jaw rattling hits) often tackled using the exact form described above. But what the team is doing a better job of now is making sure their arms are wrapped around the offensive player when they make a hit. So while the players do make some hard hits, they are not going for the slobberknocker like they used to. As a result, the hits are more fundimentally sound and only rarely do you see guys bounce off them to gain additional yards. Which, IMO, is what you want. I couldn't care less if we make the SportsCenter highlight reel, I just want to make sure that when we have the chance to stop a guy, that he goes no further.

Edited by Woodie, 31 January 2009 - 01:41 AM.


#42 top dawg

top dawg

    The Creative Cat

  • Joined: 11-December 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 8,321
  • Reputation: 2,935
HUDDLER

Posted 31 January 2009 - 02:17 PM

Our defense suffers from a lack of heart, intensity and consistency which is in part due to shortcomings in coaching, a lack of experience in battle, and brain farts while playing.

Hopefully with another season under their belts, the youngsters will have a better handle on WTF is going on, the leaders will inject an endless stream of energy into the defensive culture, and the coaches will be there to preach consistency and demand accountability for soft and so-so play.

#43 Mr. Scot

Mr. Scot

    Football Historian

  • Joined: 25-November 08
  • posts: 44,805
  • Reputation: 13,349
SUPPORTER

Posted 01 February 2009 - 11:32 AM

The opening line of Charles Chandler's story on the Steeler defense says it all here.

Bend but don't break? Puh-leez.


Enlightening.

The Pittsburgh Steelers believe in playing defense the old-fashioned way, unlike many NFL teams nowadays that don't mind giving up chunks of yardage between the twenties as long as they hunker down near the goal-line.

The Steelers gave up fewer yards per game (237.2) during the regular season than the legendary 1985 Chicago Bears, and led the NFL in total defense, pass defense, and scoring defense. Pittsburgh was second in run defense, falling 55 rushing yards shy of becoming the first team since the 1970 NFL-AFL merger to lead in all four categories.

In the NFL's highest-scoring season since 1965, the Steelers held opponents to 13.9 points per game and 3.9 yards per play, best in the league since 1979.

They did it against one of the league's most difficult schedules, facing 11 teams that finished .500 or better.

Facing a different monster

So the best defense in the league did it with a hard-ass approach, the kind of approach that once got a DC named John Fox an opportunity as a head coach.

An approach the Panthers have since abandoned.

:nonod:

#44 top dawg

top dawg

    The Creative Cat

  • Joined: 11-December 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 8,321
  • Reputation: 2,935
HUDDLER

Posted 01 February 2009 - 02:11 PM

The opening line of Charles Chandler's story on the Steeler defense says it all here.



Enlightening.


Facing a different monster

So the best defense in the league did it with a hard-ass approach, the kind of approach that once got a DC named John Fox an opportunity as a head coach.

An approach the Panthers have since abandoned.

:nonod:


Scottie, who are you kidding?:) The Panthers haven't abandoned this approach. They never had it. **amusingly argumentative**

#45 Steel Panther

Steel Panther

    Senior Member

  • Joined: 24-November 08
  • PipPipPipPip
  • posts: 150
  • Reputation: 1
HUDDLER

Posted 04 February 2009 - 02:12 PM

Spot on, dude!

#46 Steel Panther

Steel Panther

    Senior Member

  • Joined: 24-November 08
  • PipPipPipPip
  • posts: 150
  • Reputation: 1
HUDDLER

Posted 04 February 2009 - 02:15 PM

Don't know about Asomugha on Jacked up (I found that segment totally useless, so rarely watched), but nevertheless, it is irrelevent to my point. He is so fundimentally sound that teams usually choose not to throw his way, which limits his chances for jacked up plays (which is why I used the example). The reason for this is that his man up defense is very sound and the chances of completing a pass on him is small, not because of any sort of reputation as a fierce hitter.

True, hard hitting and solid fundimentals do not have to be mutually exclusive, however, most times they are. Teams that do both well are very rare. Teams like the Steelers are the exception, not the rule. Typically, most teams known as big hitters are also teams known for poor tackling and inconsistent play, not strong fundimentals. The reason is simple, most players that are known as big hitters tend to lead with their shoulder while tucking their arm in order to make that bone jarring hit. However, that is, by definition, poor fundimentals.

As for the Panthers, within the last year or so, there has been a general shift in their hitting. In previous years, players such as Mike Minter and Thomas Davis (basically the players known for their jaw rattling hits) often tackled using the exact form described above. But what the team is doing a better job of now is making sure their arms are wrapped around the offensive player when they make a hit. So while the players do make some hard hits, they are not going for the slobberknocker like they used to. As a result, the hits are more fundimentally sound and only rarely do you see guys bounce off them to gain additional yards. Which, IMO, is what you want. I couldn't care less if we make the SportsCenter highlight reel, I just want to make sure that when we have the chance to stop a guy, that he goes no further.


I say let's just make sure that the STEELERS are not longer the "exception" to your rule...JACK 'EM UP!!! Make them look like this...:crazy:

#47 frash.exe

frash.exe

    Freddy Frashbear

  • Joined: 24-November 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 14,942
  • Reputation: 5,489
HUDDLER

Posted 04 February 2009 - 02:19 PM

The opening line of Charles Chandler's story on the Steeler defense says it all here.



Enlightening.


Facing a different monster

So the best defense in the league did it with a hard-ass approach, the kind of approach that once got a DC named John Fox an opportunity as a head coach.

An approach the Panthers have since abandoned.

:nonod:


Nevermind just the Steelers. NONE of the top 5 defenses this year played a soft bend but don't break scheme.

#48 I am Hubby

I am Hubby

    Senior Member

  • Joined: 02-January 09
  • PipPipPipPip
  • posts: 604
  • Reputation: 4
HUDDLER

Posted 04 February 2009 - 09:41 PM

I understand the need for nastiness. However, I would settle for fundamentally sound and being more aggressive.