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#46 Gazi

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 01:29 PM

neither do i. I claim to be muslim but dont believe a lot of the things my religion teaches. I grew up a muslim so will always have those roots to me and will always defend it because most people that talk about it know a lot less about it then they think they do. But in all honesty I am not too sure what the *** i am. I question it everyday.

Would you be urprised that you are not alone? :willy_nilly:

#47 Jase

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 01:32 PM

Neither atheism, nor any religion, answers everything, so by adhering to one of those extremes is being intellectually lazy... Some form of Agnosticism however are far from lazy...

So a philosophy that seeks to answer nothing in particular is not as lazy as those that attempt to answer everything?

not buying it.

#48 The Saltman

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 01:33 PM

I hate when people label any religion. Let people lead their own lives and STFU

#49 Jase

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 01:34 PM

^ rep (crap, doesn't work)

^ pie (dammit, doesn't work)

^good job salty

#50 The Saltman

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 01:36 PM

The religion I was raised in gets labeled more than any other and can be justifiable sometimes with how the world is nowadays but it just gets so annoying. The world is a fuked up place.

#51 Darth Urious

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 01:53 PM

So a philosophy that seeks to answer nothing in particular is not as lazy as those that attempt to answer everything?

not buying it.


There are forms of Agnosticism that aren't lazy... People actually seek further understanding and knowledge through science and research...

One could argue that there are forms of religion that do the same, but ultimately it isn't true because they will always be hindered by the presumed absolution of certain facts...

Much like the Atheist generally has no desire to seek any sort of evidence of a creator, the Religious adherent generally has no desire to seek any sort of option for there not being one... The Agnostic can seek both...

#52 rodeo

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 03:21 PM

Neither atheism, nor any religion, answers everything, so by adhering to one of those extremes is being intellectually lazy... Some form of Agnosticism however are far from lazy...


atheism isn't something that endeavors to explain everything (or anything) and isn't something you adhere to. it's just not believing there is a god. it's the default way everyone is born thinking until they're actively taught something different depending on where they are born.

what's intellectually lazy is remaining neutral about every claim because you can't actively disprove it. it's reasonable to not believe certain claims. it's reasonable to not believe me when i claim Miley Cyrus is my mom or my dog invented algebra. you don't have to spend your whole life dodging every question because you can't prove a negative. things like that are safe to simply not believe.

i take that back, actually, it's not laziness, it's cowardice.

#53 Captroop

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 03:34 PM

atheism isn't something that endeavors to explain everything (or anything) and isn't something you adhere to. it's just not believing there is a god. it's the default way everyone is born thinking until they're actively taught something different depending on where they are born.

what's intellectually lazy is remaining neutral about every claim because you can't actively disprove it. it's reasonable to not believe certain claims. it's reasonable to not believe me when i claim Miley Cyrus is my mom or my dog invented algebra. you don't have to spend your whole life dodging every question because you can't prove a negative. things like that are safe to simply not believe.

i take that back, actually, it's not laziness, it's cowardice.


This.

Do I know for a fact that a sentient being didn't create the universe? No. But It's something I believe and I'm willing to stand by it. I agree, refusing to have an opinion because there is no concrete proof of it is just cowardly.

I'd rather spend time with someone with beliefs that conflict with mine. At least then we'd have something to talk about. If you just kind of non-commit to everything, how boring would that be?

"You think there is a God?"
"No way of knowing."
"You're right. Hmm... I'm gonna go shoot myself in the hand so I have something to do."

#54 BBQ&Beer

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 04:57 PM

I find the following scale useful.

1. I know without a doubt that there is a God. (religious)
2. There most likely is a god. (religious)
3. I believe that there is a god. (religious)
4. I don't belive one way or the other. (agnostic)
5. I don't belive there is a god. (atheist)
6. there most likely isn't a god. (atheist)
7. I know without a doubt that there is no god. (atheist)

If you are, or somewhere between, 3-5, cool. Odds are we'll have some interesting discussions.

If you are, or somewhere between, 2-2.9 or 5.1-6 odds are you take the subject too seriously. (imo)

If you are, or somewhere between, 0.1-0.9 or 6.1-6.9, odds are you are annoying.

If you are 1 or 7, you are an idiot.

Edited by BBQ&Beer, 04 February 2011 - 05:06 PM.


#55 Darth Urious

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 07:17 PM

atheism isn't something that endeavors to explain everything (or anything) and isn't something you adhere to. it's just not believing there is a god. it's the default way everyone is born thinking until they're actively taught something different depending on where they are born.

what's intellectually lazy is remaining neutral about every claim because you can't actively disprove it. it's reasonable to not believe certain claims. it's reasonable to not believe me when i claim Miley Cyrus is my mom or my dog invented algebra. you don't have to spend your whole life dodging every question because you can't prove a negative. things like that are safe to simply not believe.

i take that back, actually, it's not laziness, it's cowardice.


The bold part is kind of debatable... You aren't born thinking much, and the very invention of religion itself demonstrates the human need to explain things that we will likely never explain...

That said, I don't really get your view on neutrality either...

Most of my posts here involving philosophical debate usually center on the idea that I don't really lend credence to the idea that a supreme intelligent creator put life here, nor has any interest in the goings on of it...

However, I don't discount the idea of a collective subconscious manipulating some unknown energy in the universe to influence certain events either... mostly on the grounds that I don't have any evidence against it...

I pick the brains of some of the most intelligent people in the area on a daily basis, and sometimes I try to feel out their views on discussions such as this...

More often than not, surprisingly, most of them feel the same way I do... They basically scoff at religion of any sort, especially organized worship, but none will go as far as to totally write off the idea that there is something unknown at work at certain times in the way things work...

I really have no problem with atheism, and I actually probably lean that way more than the other, but I do see that the typical 100% atheist tends to have a certain arrogance and "closing off" of the mind to certain ideas that go against their beliefs... Interestingly enough, that is the very thing that usually brings out the debate in them from the other side...

The two sides really are the same in that aspect, and if you disagree that you are totally closing your mind off to any possibility outside of your realm of belief, then you are in denial...

#56 chris999

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 07:59 PM

i think that human beings created religion to help humanity develop morals.

if you dont think you will go to hell for murder, then why not just kill someone and steal theyre belongings... it sure is easier than putting in a hard days work in the feild in order to feed yourself.

us humans think we are special because our brains have evolved enough that we are smart enough to use tools, and are capable of higher thinking. but I think that we are nothing more than smart animals. we urinate and deficate like animals, we have sexual intercourse like animals, we need food and water like animals, and we eventually die like animals do.

i think that if we were specifically created by some all powerful supernatural being that had the power to create the universe, i think that he could have made alot of improvements.

life started when amino acids and other proteins has a freak random interaction in the early oceans, and we, just like every other species on the planet, have evolved over time. we may be the only living being in the entire universe, or this freak reaction may have happened elsewhere as well, but the universe is a big place with almost infinite possibilities. it was bound to happen somewhere or another.

Edited by chris999, 04 February 2011 - 08:02 PM.


#57 chris999

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 08:09 PM

I find the following scale useful.

1. I know without a doubt that there is a God. (religious)
2. There most likely is a god. (religious)
3. I believe that there is a god. (religious)
4. I don't belive one way or the other. (agnostic)
5. I don't belive there is a god. (atheist)
6. there most likely isn't a god. (atheist)
7. I know without a doubt that there is no god. (atheist)

If you are, or somewhere between, 3-5, cool. Odds are we'll have some interesting discussions.

If you are, or somewhere between, 2-2.9 or 5.1-6 odds are you take the subject too seriously. (imo)

If you are, or somewhere between, 0.1-0.9 or 6.1-6.9, odds are you are annoying.

If you are 1 or 7, you are an idiot.


that is an interesting scale.

i always beleived that i was agnostic. i believe that a God may be possible, but i also think that it is very likely that if there was a god, that we would have been aware of him by now.

i thought that the definition of an atheist was someone who thought there may be a god, but chose not to believe.

#58 Darth Urious

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 08:15 PM

if you dont think you will go to hell for murder, then why not just kill someone and steal theyre belongings... it sure is easier than putting in a hard days work in the feild in order to feed yourself.


lol, so to value life, you have to believe in hell?

us humans think we are special because our brains have evolved enough that we are smart enough to use tools, and are capable of higher thinking. but I think that we are nothing more than smart animals. we urinate and deficate like animals, we have sexual intercourse like animals, we need food and water like animals, and we eventually die like animals do.


Equating the ability to create civilization and technology to biological mechanisms is a little errrrr... "off"... You do all those things for survival of your species, and that IS evolutionary to an extent... However, let me know when other animals start building computers and such, and then explain why they did it on a much slower evolutionary rate than humans...

i think that if we were specifically created by some all powerful supernatural being that had the power to create the universe, i think that he could have made alot of improvements.


This I agree with...

life started when amino acids and other proteins has a freak random interaction in the early oceans


This has not been proven, and all attempts at replicating the process have failed. Try again.

#59 Jangler

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 08:21 PM

http://www.gifsoup.c...r.php?id=104987

#60 Darth Urious

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 08:24 PM

yes, hallucinations probably led to most reports of religious experiences...


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