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"If it were up to me to fix the QB spot, I would..."


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#91 TheRealDeal

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 01:14 PM

picking players you are sure will improve your franchise? im sure all franchises think that, doesnt mean being sure about it makes it so.


Right but you don't "Gamble Big" to become elite.

Gambling Big makes you one of the Bay Area teams

#92 micnificent28

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 01:43 PM

I don't think you have to gamble. I think you have to draft players that you think are going to be great in the NFL, not players that could be great in the NFL if the stars align.

You don't become elite by drafting gambles every time and hoping they pay off. You have to draft smart and pick players you are sure will improve your franchise.


We wouldn't know that because the Panthers never gamble. We've been playing it safe so long we've passed on a number of elite talents in the process because they were not "safe". Saying the stars would have to align for cam to be a star is insane. Most would agree he has a Greater chance of becoming a Elite QB than colin k. What u want us to do is wanting us to do is exactly what we've been doing since we came into the NFL. The same tired stopgap wait on the perfect specimen before you draft a QB Crap.

Most casual fans don't know one player on the panthers roster. Its time for a face to the franchise,someone to bring energy into the fanbase. Cam us the only player in the draft with that kind of potential. Not only would he be a nightmare for defenses to prepare for but what he'd do for the franchise would be amazing. Jersey sales,new fans,ticket sales,Endorsements and national media coverage. I think it even bring in a couple million dollars to the city of charlotte itself.

Could he be a bust? yes but easily so could fairley or anyone else at the top. But what if he isn't? He has the potential to change the way the QB position is played. Not since Vick Came into the league has a player had that kind of potential and Cam is easily a better passer. Not to mention if a new CBA is signed and a rookie cap is installed. He could become an even lower risk! there is a lot riding on this pick but,to me the reward out ways the risk easy....

#93 TheRealDeal

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 02:01 PM

All of that doesn't change the premise that you don't HAVE to gamble to be elite.

All your post said was Cam is a big name so people who don't watch the Panthers will know a player on our team. Great. Oh he will also sell some jerseys. Hooray.

Do elite team's get judged on names and jersey sales?

If he helps us become an elite team, we will draft him. If not, we won't. It's simple. Jersey sales and player endorsements won't make him elite

We also sell out every game already and we were 2-14 so ticket sales are a non issue.

#94 Snake

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 02:07 PM

picking players you are sure will improve your franchise? im sure all franchises think that, doesnt mean being sure about it makes it so.



This is why I trust Hurney. In 2002 with the second pick we took the only player to have success. Whoever Hurney pick IMO I think they will have success with us.



Still to be fair in that draft David Carr was good for 3 years and with that poo line that made him a permanent part of the AstroTurf.

#95 rayzor

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 04:11 PM

I don't think you have to gamble. I think you have to draft players that you think are going to be great in the NFL, not players that could be great in the NFL if the stars align.

You don't become elite by drafting gambles every time and hoping they pay off. You have to draft smart and pick players you are sure will improve your franchise.

every draft pick is a gamble....esp. in the first round. there are no sure things. there are few positions that come without significant bust rates. no player is 100% ready for the pro game when they are drafted. none of them are without flaws or with nothing to learn. they all have weaknesses.

you draft smart, but you don't need to try to go the safest route either. if you do that, you stand the very real risk of staying average. that was the route that fox took every year and the result was a very mediocre team.

#96 Snake

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 04:20 PM

every draft pick is a gamble....esp. in the first round. there are no sure things. there are few positions that come without significant bust rates. no player is 100% ready for the pro game when they are drafted. none of them are without flaws or with nothing to learn. they all have weaknesses.

you draft smart, but you don't need to try to go the safest route either. if you do that, you stand the very real risk of staying average. that was the route that fox took every year and the result was a very mediocre team.


Agreed. Tom Brady only happens once in 20 years so finding a QB out of the top 15 is rare.

#97 TheRealDeal

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 04:22 PM

every draft pick is a gamble....esp. in the first round. there are no sure things. there are few positions that come without significant bust rates. no player is 100% ready for the pro game when they are drafted. none of them are without flaws or with nothing to learn. they all have weaknesses.

you draft smart, but you don't need to try to go the safest route either. if you do that, you stand the very real risk of staying average. that was the route that fox took every year and the result was a very mediocre team.


I thought you didn't read my posts?

Anyway, I agree but I think some players are higher risks/bigger gambles than others. As an organization you have to take calculated risks not "big gambles" when drafting, especially at #1 overall.

The last two teams to take a "Big Gamble" for a QB at #1 haven't yet recovered. For one it's been 6 years and no end is in sight.

#98 rayzor

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 04:26 PM

Agreed. Tom Brady only happens once in 20 years so finding a QB out of the top 15 is rare.

thats pretty much why i really wouldn't bother drafting a guy outside the first round at all.

if you are serious about wanting a franchise QB, you daft him in the first round. you don't go looking around for one, hoping one falls out of the sky into your lap.

if you want a backup or a good pair of experienced eyes on the sidelines, you pick up a vet FA.

very simple no-nonsense approach that yields the best results.

#99 rayzor

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 04:40 PM

I thought you didn't read my posts?

thats only in conversations/threads that are specifically about newton. thought it was safe in this thread. anyway...

Anyway, I agree but I think some players are higher risks/bigger gambles than others. As an organization you have to take calculated risks not "big gambles" when drafting, especially at #1 overall.

The last two teams to take a "Big Gamble" for a QB at #1 haven't yet recovered. For one it's been 6 years and no end is in sight.

not sure who your other "big gamble" is referring to, but in regards to russell...he wasn't considered a big gamble at the time. people were willing to overlook a poor work ethic as well as a lack of other key intangibles in favor of some guy who is just a big guy with a cannon arm. they thought you could coach the rest of the stuff or mold him into what they wanted, but they didn't take into account the effect of having a poor work ethic would have on what they were trying to accomplish with him. the potential there was immense, but he just didn't have the drive to make it happen. he was also very limited in what he brought to the table. he wasn't particularly mobile and he was slow as a slug (and about as intelligent).

draftniks and scouts have learned a lot since then. that is why you don't see mallett ranked very high on anyones rankings. those are the main things that you can say about mallett...that he is a big guy with a cannon arm.

newton has a much stronger work ethic than russell and will go further just on that. newton isn't nearly as one dimensional as russell. he brings a whole lot more to the table as a passer, an athlete, a runner, and intangibles.

pretty obvious i don't think he has any real character problems anymore. he grew out of that thanks to the people he's had around him since leaving florida. if you can look past the supposed character flaws, the only thing that really would be holding him back is his work ethic and football IQ. those that have experience with him say that his work ethic is top notch and he is very coachable and able to pick up on whatever is taught to him. it's just a matter of whether that comes out in interviews.

#100 Galvatron

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 05:10 PM

thats only in conversations/threads that are specifically about newton. thought it was safe in this thread. anyway...
not sure who your other "big gamble" is referring to, but in regards to russell...he wasn't considered a big gamble at the time. people were willing to overlook a poor work ethic as well as a lack of other key intangibles in favor of some guy who is just a big guy with a cannon arm. they thought you could coach the rest of the stuff or mold him into what they wanted, but they didn't take into account the effect of having a poor work ethic would have on what they were trying to accomplish with him. the potential there was immense, but he just didn't have the drive to make it happen. he was also very limited in what he brought to the table. he wasn't particularly mobile and he was slow as a slug (and about as intelligent).

draftniks and scouts have learned a lot since then. that is why you don't see mallett ranked very high on anyones rankings. those are the main things that you can say about mallett...that he is a big guy with a cannon arm.

newton has a much stronger work ethic than russell and will go further just on that. newton isn't nearly as one dimensional as russell. he brings a whole lot more to the table as a passer, an athlete, a runner, and intangibles.

pretty obvious i don't think he has any real character problems anymore. he grew out of that thanks to the people he's had around him since leaving florida. if you can look past the supposed character flaws, the only thing that really would be holding him back is his work ethic and football IQ. those that have experience with him say that his work ethic is top notch and he is very coachable and able to pick up on whatever is taught to him. it's just a matter of whether that comes out in interviews.


A pretty big factor with Russel was who had the pick; I mean when was the last time Oakland really hit big in the first round? '03 with Aso

If OAK wasn't in the first round hypothetically, where do you think he would have gone?

#101 TheRealDeal

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 05:16 PM

thats only in conversations/threads that are specifically about newton. thought it was safe in this thread. anyway...
not sure who your other "big gamble" is referring to, but in regards to russell...he wasn't considered a big gamble at the time. people were willing to overlook a poor work ethic as well as a lack of other key intangibles in favor of some guy who is just a big guy with a cannon arm. they thought you could coach the rest of the stuff or mold him into what they wanted, but they didn't take into account the effect of having a poor work ethic would have on what they were trying to accomplish with him. the potential there was immense, but he just didn't have the drive to make it happen. he was also very limited in what he brought to the table. he wasn't particularly mobile and he was slow as a slug (and about as intelligent).

draftniks and scouts have learned a lot since then. that is why you don't see mallett ranked very high on anyones rankings. those are the main things that you can say about mallett...that he is a big guy with a cannon arm.

newton has a much stronger work ethic than russell and will go further just on that. newton isn't nearly as one dimensional as russell. he brings a whole lot more to the table as a passer, an athlete, a runner, and intangibles.

pretty obvious i don't think he has any real character problems anymore. he grew out of that thanks to the people he's had around him since leaving florida. if you can look past the supposed character flaws, the only thing that really would be holding him back is his work ethic and football IQ. those that have experience with him say that his work ethic is top notch and he is very coachable and able to pick up on whatever is taught to him. it's just a matter of whether that comes out in interviews.




So are you saying Russell wasn't a big gamble and Cam also is not a big gamble?

#102 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 05:23 PM

So are you saying Russell wasn't a big gamble and Cam also is not a big gamble?


Russell wasn't a big gamble when drafted. Hindsight makes him look like a bigger one than he really was. The Raiders actually did what most thought was the smart move for a change.

#103 rayzor

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 05:34 PM

A pretty big factor with Russel was who had the pick; I mean when was the last time Oakland really hit big in the first round? '03 with Aso

If OAK wasn't in the first round hypothetically, where do you think he would have gone?

i don't know. i do know i wasn't a huge fan of russell, but i didn't doubt he would get past the top 5 picks. i was a pretty big advocate for calvin johnson getting picked #1 and thought it made a lot of sense for them to draft him. i also thought that quinn had more chance of being a successful QB and thought he would go earlier though by draft time it was pretty evident that they were only interested in russell or calvin johnson. i also couldn't see quinn surviving one season in the black hole. that place would have eaten him alive.

#104 rayzor

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 05:39 PM

So are you saying Russell wasn't a big gamble and Cam also is not a big gamble?

russell wasn't viewed as a big gamble, but people were focusing in on the wrong tings, namely his size and arm, and were overlooking some very imprtant things.

newton isn't nearly the gamble that russell turned out to be. he has a lot more talent and has a lot more in the intangible department.

i didn't like russell, but i have to admit i had no idea that he would bust the way that he did. i wasn't looking at his work ethic and his love for the game and dedication to improving and growing as a player and as a man. i know look at those tings a lot more closely as do most scouts and draftniks. newton has him beat by a mile in all of those areas. i doubt there are many who would doubt that and it isn't for lack of questioning it.

#105 TheRealDeal

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 06:11 PM

russell wasn't viewed as a big gamble, but people were focusing in on the wrong tings, namely his size and arm, and were overlooking some very imprtant things.

newton isn't nearly the gamble that russell turned out to be. he has a lot more talent and has a lot more in the intangible department.

i didn't like russell, but i have to admit i had no idea that he would bust the way that he did. i wasn't looking at his work ethic and his love for the game and dedication to improving and growing as a player and as a man. i know look at those tings a lot more closely as do most scouts and draftniks. newton has him beat by a mile in all of those areas. i doubt there are many who would doubt that and it isn't for lack of questioning it.


Let's focus on the one that was more of a gamble then and talk about A Smith. Similar story to Newton. Came from a spread OPTION offense. Was very fast but people questioned how he'd handle a pro offense. A Rod was sitting there as well and although many felt neither were worth the #1 pick, SF just had to have one and forced themselves to pick a franchise guy. 6 years later. Same thing.

Was he not a gamble?

All the other QBs taken at #1 this decade were far less of gambles than A Smith and Russell and have worked out better so far.

You can throw Carr in there but between Harrington and Carr and being an expansion team they were going to reach no matter what.


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