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States rights

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to own people.

[url]http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/12/civil-war-still-divides-americans/?hpt=C1[/url]

[QUOTE]In the CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll released Tuesday, [B]roughly one in four Americans said they sympathize more with the Confederacy than the Union, a figure that rises to nearly four in ten among white Southerners.[/B]

When asked the reason behind the Civil War, whether it was fought over slavery or states' rights, 52 percent of all Americans said the leaders of the Confederacy seceded to keep slavery legal in their state, [B]but a sizeable 42 percent minority said slavery was not the main reason why those states seceded[/B].[/QUOTE]

hmm

[QUOTE][B]the new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions-African slavery as it exists among us-the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization.[/B] [B]This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution.[/B] Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. [B]The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically.[/B] [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, [B]its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition. [/B][Applause.] This, our new Government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. [/QUOTE]

~vice president of the confederacy

[url]http://civilwarwiki.net/wiki/Alexander_H._Stephens%27_Cornerstone_Address[/url]

then there's this comparison of the constitution and the confederate constitution: [url]http://www.filibustercartoons.com/CSA.htm[/url]

[QUOTE]Overall, the CSA constitution does not radically alter the federal system that was set up under the United States constitution. It is thus very debatable as to whether the CSA was a significantly more pro-"states' rights" country (as supporters claim) in any meaningful sense.[B] At least three states rights are explicitly taken away- the freedom of states to grant voting rights to non-citizens, the freedom of states to outlaw slavery within their borders, and the freedom of states to trade freely with each other.[/B]

[B]States only gain four minor rights under the Confederate system- the power to enter into treaties with other states to regulate waterways, the power to tax foreign and domestic ships that use their waterways, the power to impeach federally-appointed state officials, and the power to distribute "bills of credit." [/B]When people champion the cause of reclaiming state power from the feds, are matters like these at the tops of their lists of priorities?

As previously noted, [B]the CSA constitution does not modify many of the most controversial (from a states' rights perspective) clauses of the American constitution[/B], including the "Supremacy" clause (6-1-3), the "Commerce" clause (1-8-3) and the "Necessary and Proper" clause (1-8-18). Nor does the CSA take away the federal government's right to suspend habeus corpus or "suppress insurrections."

[B]As far as slave-owning rights go, however, the document is much more effective.[/B] Indeed, CSA constitution seems to barely stop short of making owning slaves mandatory. Four different clauses entrench the legality of slavery in a number of different ways, and together they virtually guarantee that any sort of future anti-slave law or policy will be unconstitutional. People can claim the Civil War was "not about slavery" until the cows come home, but the fact remains that anyone who fought for the Confederacy was fighting for a country in which a universal right to own slaves was one of the most entrenched laws of the land. [/QUOTE]

are you one of the 25% of americans, or 40% of white southerners, who sympathize with the confederacy? one of the 42% who believes that slavery was not the main reason for secession? what say you?

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Why?.... Why did you have to bring up "Lost Cause" poo?

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[quote name='BBQ&Beer']Why?.... Why did you have to bring up "Lost Cause" poo?[/QUOTE]

He can't help it... he'd rather stir the sh*t and make it stink than do something useful.

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Slavery was the primary cause of the War of Northern aggression. Anybody that doubts it needs to read up a bit.

That being said, it was not the primary reason the soldiers themselves fought.

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Northerners cared so much about slavery that 365,000 Union troops died to end it. But didn't care enough to give freed slaves a place to live.

.....and Iraq was about WMD.

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Is that why rednecks give me the stink eye when I wear my Yankees hat? Because we freed their slaves?

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[quote name='googoodan']Northerners cared so much about slavery that 365,000 Union troops died to end it. But didn't care enough to give freed slaves a place to live.

.....and Iraq was about WMD.[/QUOTE]

the majority of northerners didn't care about slaves at all.

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This is ridiculous.

Was slavery a component of why the civil war was fought? Absolutely. Anyone who denies it would be just wrong. Was it the only reason? Absolutely not. Anyone who denies it would be just wrong.

Lot of tensions were there prior (see Bushwackers/Jayhawkers).

I see no problem in remembering WHAT happened. Using it to make political points nowadays? I don't see why or the point. Southerners aren't guilty by birth location as racists that simply want to whip black people nor should they deny what happened (regardless of how few did it - it was wrong...period). Northerners aren't innocent by birth location from having ancestry that may/may not have benefited from the use of slaves. Once everyone realizes that we'll all be better off.

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[quote name='Panthro']Is that why rednecks give me the stink eye when I wear my Yankees hat? Because we freed their slaves?[/QUOTE]

No it's because the Yankees SUCK
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[quote name='Panthro']Is that why rednecks give me the stink eye when I wear my Yankees hat? Because we freed their slaves?[/QUOTE]

A-rod freed a lot of slaves I've heard.

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Slavery was a states' rights issue.

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1) States rights is awesome.
2) Rich southerners started the war to protect their wealth. But that is nothing new.
3) Most southerners fought for their state and not for slavery.
4) I love the New York Yankees. Wanted to grow up to be Reggie Jackson.
5) the battle flag is the most beautiful flag in the history of the world. :)

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[quote name='pantherfan49']Slavery was a states' rights issue.[/QUOTE]

Glad we didn't just let the states decide what was best.

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[quote name='Panthro']Glad we didn't just let the states decide what was best.[/QUOTE]

Clearly the Southern states were wrong. But, the proper procedure for ending slavery was via a constitutional amendment, which was done. Under the original Constitution and the amendments in the Bill of Rights and further amendments before the Civil War, slavery was legal.
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[quote name='Panthro']Glad we didn't just let the states decide what was best.[/QUOTE]

As apposed to killing indians.

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Is this about our Medical MJ laws? :D

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[quote name='GritsRgreat']As apposed to killing indians.[/QUOTE]

So the Southern States tried to protect Native Americans?

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The civil war has been over for 150 years and some people are still fighting it.

The issues of the day are archaic now and can't be viewed from the lens of today societal norms. If you think they are, then I suggest you join the whig party.


PS: A southern man don't need panthro around anyhow.

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[IMG]http://images.borders.com.au/images/bau/97815655/9781565540248/180/0/plain/south-was-right.jpg[/IMG]

Really enjoyed this book.

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looks unbiased to me.

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[quote name='Panthro']Is that why rednecks give me the stink eye when I wear my Yankees hat? Because we freed their slaves?[/QUOTE]

Just wondering why a Jiffy Lube has less oil than that hat.
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I've said before that the documentation my family has about my own Civil War ancestors is that none of them owned slaves at all... One died at Gettysburg and one died after he got home... Others we aren't so sure of, yet.

Slavery was certainly an issue for southerners, but it wasn't the main one... To me, saying it was is basically like saying the whole Civil Rights movement was mainly because Rosa Parks couldn't sit at the front of a bus...

To me and apparently my family, at least, it was about being opposed to a federal government telling the states what to do with their land and their peoples...

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So you have a problem with the government telling the states that owning other human beings was wrong, like it was some kind of "lifestyle choice"?

The proof is in the pudding. Did your family really have it going on about the "regulating waterways" thing?

I've heard this described as "defending a way of life". It's clear that even though most southerners did not own slaves, it was a "right" they didn't want taken away, much like how modern conservatives rail against "unfair treatment" of the rich and their taxes - they will almost certainly never get to that level of affluence, but damnit, if they do they want the same cushy treatment.

Most Southerners just felt that their alliegance was to their town, their state....remember back then people lived and died without getting 20 miles away from their homes, were largely illiterate, and were tought all they needed to know from a church or neighbor. They fought out of sense of duty, not for any political credo or moral code. They also fought because it was expected of them and everybody else fought.

At the time the North was becoming literate and industrialized at a much faster pace than the South, because they had the population density, the transportation networks, and the money - all these were making the people in the North more educated about slavery, and the anti slavery message was easier to disseminate by the relatively small number of committed abolitionists. The South was in no way able to counter the propaganda or mask the truth of slavery as "something that was better for the savages than what they had".

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The issue of slavery directly led to secession. Secession led to the Civil War. So yes, slavery caused/led to the civil war.

No, individual soldiers weren't fighting to keep their slaves, but how does that change anything?

It's like saying it's cool to glorify Nazi Germany because a lot of the individual soldiers probably just [b]hated[/b] Jews and didn't want to see them die the most cruel and inhumane deaths imaginable.

Both periods in both countries were despicable, shameful times. And I don't understand why you doofuses insist on glorifying it by relying on platitudes like "states' rights!" and "Southern pride!" when the war wasn't actually fought over those ideals.

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As a student of WWII, I think that the rank and file German soldier, although they had a lot of doubts about Hitler, were just the same as any other soldier. They fight for their home and don't get all that wrapped up in the politics. When the war started, Hitler was quite popular for making Germany strong again when it was completely humiliated and economically destroyed by the Versailles Treaty and the Great Depression, and the details, well, they were not questioned, or dismissed in large part because they seemed way too out there. Once they wert out to the Eastern Front and saw the reality of the situation, they were stuck.

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