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TEPCO Admits Complete Fuel Meltdown Occurred 16hrs after Quake.


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#46 Floppin

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 06:45 PM

This is a misconception

Everything emits radiation. Walking around NYC subjects you to radiation. And it is well documented that certain levels of radiation are completely harmless.

Up to 250mSv per day is completely harmless. Up to 1000mSv per day has short term effects but not long term.

There have been a few readings outside of the plant itself up to 1000mSv but rarely. Even inside the plant some of these levels weren't reached


Meanwhile, a robot placed on the second floor of Unit 1 measured radiation levels up to 2,000 MilliSieverts/hour—or 200 rems/hour—far too high for people to work in. And Tepco now acknowledges that the containments of Units 2 and 3 also almost certainly have been breached by molten fuel, which indicates a similar scenario to Unit 1—thousands of tons of water that have been pumped in to keep the reactors cool has become highly radioactive water leaking back out. There is likely far less water in the pressure vessels than Tepco previously believed.

http://www.nirs.org/...hima/crisis.htm

edit: sorry since I'm supposed to date everything now. That's from may 16th.

Edited by Floppin, 19 May 2011 - 06:57 PM.


#47 Happy Panther

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 07:06 PM

It's like the FDA. If it doesn't kill you immediately or after a year, then it's OK. ;)


The point is you have to be intelligent about the severity.

Alcohol is a toxin. If I have a glass of wine it technically hurts something in my body. But 1 glass is immaterial. 2 glasses a night is immaterial

The amount of radiation being released is immaterial. Unfortunately radiation is a buzzword that people tend to react negatively to.

#48 Floppin

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 07:20 PM

An article about an interview with Nuclear Engineer Akira Tokuhiro today with the Huffington Post.

"Only the mass media can put the kind of pressure on TEPCO and the Japanese government to bring about major change. This will cost at least 10 billion dollars if not 20-30 billion to clean up. It will take at least 10 years if not 20 and roughly 10,000 people working on the cleanup. The nuclear business is global. This needs an international effort to clean up Fukushima."
-- Nuclear Engineer Akira Tokuhiro

In an email today, Japanese born, U.S.-educated nuclear engineering professor Tokuhiro wrote the following:

I want to bring up a sensitive point to many who are (may be) identified below.

There is a difference amongst the following: nuclear physicist, nuclear engineer, nuclear reactor operator, nuclear non-proliferation specialist.

During the current crisis, all these 'experts' have been in the media.

The ranking of 'experts' who REALLY know how the reactor accident took place is as follows.

1) Nuclear reactor operator (he/she is really the forensic surgeon, the auto mechanic who can build and drive the car)
2) Nuclear engineer (he/she is the forensic and internal/external medicine practitioner; the automobile design and analysis engineer)

As for the other two, they only understand the principles. It is as if they know the principles of driving a car but have never driven the car nor designed a car nor repaired a car.

Would you ask a podiatrist about a medical heart condition? Would you ask a medical ethicist? I think you get my point.

It takes all kinds of people to run the global nuclear industry. However, who do you trust in terms of knowledge?


There are only a handful of Japanese nuclear engineers working and teaching in the U.S. What Professor Tokuhiro was able to add also included a strong dose of a deep understanding of the Japanese culture. "There is a cultural element in this. The Japanese do not want to be embarrassed". He added that TEPCO is a large entity which only has to answer to the Prime Minister. He added that it is a bit of the "... Only small people pay taxes mentality". The mass media in Japan is only given the information TEPCO and the government want to give them. Labor practices in Japan, he says, are quite brutal and when you get to the bottom of the labor force, those at the top of society do not really care about them."

n anonymous colleague in Japan told Tokuhiro this past week that there is no initiative taking place in terms of the health and measuring of those who have been exposed. The IAEA is supposedly sending around 20 experts to help with this, but even they do not have the kind of manpower to deal with such a human catastrophe (yet, Tokuhiro adds, they can find people to go to Iran and Iraq as weapons inspectors).

Virtually any nuclear engineer connected with the industry he or she supports cannot be fully trusted right now to give us the full truth about Fukushima because the truth is simply too damaging to the nuclear industry and they know it. The attitude the industry has as well as the ugly reality that this same energy is tied to the economy which supports full on capitalism must be scaled back Tokuhiro advised. He tells me it is difficult to speak of this in the U.S., but adds that we need to go back to a time when shops were closed on Sundays and we spent time with our families, not using up more energy but actually staying home. I added that we still do this on Sunday and it is often very difficult to find shops open here in France on Sunday except for the local outdoor markets.

A Japanese colleague of his inside of Japan, a radiation oncologist actually originally from Fukushima prefecture says there must be long term health monitoring at least 100,000 people will need to be monitored and they have this expertise in Japan because of the horrific experiences of Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

Professor Tokuhiro teaches in Idaho and as an academic he is still free to tell what he believes and believes almost all nuclear engineers following this disaster know, and have known since almost the beginning, that the reactors have melted through the core and that this has not been admitted until just these past few days when access to the computer data from the control rooms was obtained

Why is TEPCO not telling anyone the truth? That these 3 units have partially melted and that they have known this for 3-4 weeks at least. They release only small amounts of information every day. Many nuclear engineering professionals have known, were able to figure out almost from the beginning, in fact perhaps from March 15, sixteen hours or so after the accident, that the core had melted. Was there any operator error involved? He understood that TEPCO workers retreated on March 12 because the radiation readings were simply too high. He believes that within 16 hours after this they already knew the core had melted. And even though no one wants to waste precious time pointing fingers and blaming, this information is much needed in order to learn about how the events surrounding Fukushima and these numerous criticalities can be avoided in the future. We have many many of these plants operating, in the U.S. and around the world.


http://www.huffingto...u_b_863297.html

#49 Floppin

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 08:08 PM

Also from the Same article.

Fukushima differs from other nuclear reactors in that it uses a dirty fuel or MOX which is banned in many of the countries where nuclear power is a major energy source. My Swedish-Russian nuclear physicist friend is sending me links for reliable radioactivity readings and weather/wind patterns. We must remember some of what is posted on the internet are simulations, not actual readings. But he did add this:

The most terrifying fact is that the Japanese power plants are using 'dirty' fuel, which most countries have rejected and banned. Needless to say that the Americans built them. Since the Earth is moving Counterclockwise most of the fall-out will drop on U.S., unless very strong winds take it somewhere else.
In Sweden we have so far not measured increased levels of radiation. My only concern is what happened to the plutonium stored in the water tanks next to the reactor.



#50 SgtJoo

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 08:53 PM

Huffpo, a liberal site.

Good work.

#51 Floppin

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 09:06 PM

Huffpo, a liberal site.

Good work.


Ooooo nice counter argument.

#52 Kettle

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 09:12 PM

Post 49. First paragraph in the quote. That sounds like a reliable source. :rolleyes:

#53 tight lines

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 09:31 PM

Fukushima differs from other nuclear reactors in that it uses a dirty fuel or MOX which is banned in many of the countries where nuclear power is a major energy source. My Swedish-Russian nuclear physicist friend is sending me links for reliable radioactivity readings and weather/wind patterns. We must remember some of what is posted on the internet are simulations, not actual readings. But he did add this:

The most terrifying fact is that the Japanese power plants are using 'dirty' fuel, which most countries have rejected and banned. Needless to say that the Americans built them. Since the Earth is moving Counterclockwise most of the fall-out will drop on U.S., unless very strong winds take it somewhere else.
In Sweden we have so far not measured increased levels of radiation. My only concern is what happened to the plutonium stored in the water tanks next to the reactor.


When I google search mox fuel banned, the only thing I can find about mox fuel being banned anywhere is this one guys quote.

Mox fuel in most instances is nothing more than reprocessed spent fuel.

Such devious countries as France, Switzerland, Belgium, Germany, and Japan are the countries currently using MOX fuel

The author likes to blame the mox fuel on The US, who currently does not produce, or use mox fuel (although there is a production facility being built currently

Edited by tight lines, 19 May 2011 - 09:35 PM.


#54 Floppin

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 09:41 PM

When I google search mox fuel banned, the only thing I can find about mox fuel being banned anywhere is this one guys quote.

Mox fuel in most instances is nothing more than reprocessed spent fuel.

Such devious countries as France, Switzerland, Belgium, Germany, and Japan are the countries currently using MOX fuel

The author likes to blame the mox fuel on The US, who currently does not produce, or use mox fuel (although there is a production facility being built currently


The quote states that the US build the plants, not made the fuel.

#55 tight lines

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 09:49 PM

The quote states that the US build the plants, not made the fuel.


It implies that the US is somehow responsible for the mox fuel, which it is certainly not.

#56 Floppin

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 10:00 PM

It implies that the US is somehow responsible for the mox fuel, which it is certainly not.


Whether or not you can infer that the author wants to put blame on the US for the mox fuel, which I don't, that isn't really the point of the whole discussion.

#57 Sandy Claws

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 11:52 PM

Secondly the article I linked from a US source that discussed the Iodine being leaked from the reactor number 3 was from May 11th. Hardly months old. But nice try.


The US source being the Reactor Watchdog Project.

dedicated to the prompt and permanent halt to current commercial reactor operations and new atomic power development


No agenda there at all.

#58 Floppin

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 08:26 AM

The US source being the Reactor Watchdog Project.


No agenda there at all.


Just like the Nuclear industry has no Agenda. You're going to be hard pressed to find any information outlet that doesn't have some sort of Agenda. Not all articles I've linked have been from Nuclear watchdog groups, just like not all have been from supposed Liberal or Conservative sites, or from US or Austrian. It's just information.

I do know your agenda however, seeing as how you work in a Nuclear plant.

#59 Kettle

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 08:29 AM

Nuclear Energy is the past, present and future. With gas prices the way they are i'm looking for someone to design a mini reactor to power my truck.

#60 Floppin

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 08:32 AM

Nuclear Energy is the past, present and future. With gas prices the way they are i'm looking for someone to design a mini reactor to power my truck.


Dear lord I f'n hope not. There are many more alternatives out there besides f'n nuclear.

In related news TEPCO's president is resigning today.


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