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David Aldridge: Gerald Wallce is the next to go


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#16 koolkatluke

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 05:30 PM

I thought Brown said we have too many outside shooter who can't play D. Trading Wallace after trading J-rich is a mistake.

#17 X-Clown

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 05:35 PM

The Bobcats traded the 4th pick for the 2nd pick in that draft, which ended up being Okafor. So, yeah the Bobcats traded up for Okafor. The Magic were flip flopping between taking Oak or Howard so the Cats could have traded the 2nd pick with some players or picks for that #1 pick.

I dont mind the Cats clearing house either but it'd be nice for them to have an exiting player in return. It pisses me off that the Bobcats have wiffed on so many players. My fantasy bobcats would be, and yes, I know if we got anyone of these guys we wouldnt be in position to draft the "guy" the next draft but for fun the lineup could have been:

Dwight Howard
--signed PF--
Crash
Roy
CP3

That lineup would seel alot of tickets and win alot of games.



The thing about the Okafor-Howard deal was that nobody knew quite how good Howard was going to be. After all, he was yet another 18 year old with no college experience being drafted first overall. In fact, most analysts and fans alike thought we got a steal with Okafor at #2 since he was a star in college and was a proven winner. I agree with your sentiments about the other picks though.

#18 Wanderlai

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 06:41 PM

The thing about the Okafor-Howard deal was that nobody knew quite how good Howard was going to be. After all, he was yet another 18 year old with no college experience being drafted first overall. In fact, most analysts and fans alike thought we got a steal with Okafor at #2 since he was a star in college and was a proven winner. I agree with your sentiments about the other picks though.


True. There was alot of debate between Okafor and Howard and which would be the better pro. Most agreed that Okafor was at his ceiling and would be a 13/10 guy in the NBA. He also was known to have back problems. Dwight was very skinny, athletic, and really didnt have anything but a limited inside game but he had a higher ceiling than Okafor. I dont think anyone thought he would be able to put on as much muscle as the Man Child has. The writing, for me, was on the wall when Okafor turned down a one-on-one workout against Howard, at Howards suggestion.

#19 X-Clown

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 11:57 PM

Oh, and the argument that Paul wasn't rated as better than Felton prior to the draft is and that they were so close is only valid through baby blue tinted glasses. The reason they didn't make the trade is that they were more interested in selling some extra tickets by picking the two UNC guys. Same reason that Morrison was selected.

#20 Woodie

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 12:26 AM

The Bobcats traded the 4th pick for the 2nd pick in that draft, which ended up being Okafor. So, yeah the Bobcats traded up for Okafor. The Magic were flip flopping between taking Oak or Howard so the Cats could have traded the 2nd pick with some players or picks for that #1 pick.

I dont mind the Cats clearing house either but it'd be nice for them to have an exiting player in return. It pisses me off that the Bobcats have wiffed on so many players. My fantasy bobcats would be, and yes, I know if we got anyone of these guys we wouldnt be in position to draft the "guy" the next draft but for fun the lineup could have been:

Dwight Howard
--signed PF--
Crash
Roy
CP3

That lineup would seel alot of tickets and win alot of games.


That's not as unrealistic as it might seem on the surface. Howard and EO50 had similar rookie seasons, so if we had taken Howard instead (like you, I think we might have been able to put together an offer Orlando would have accepted), we likely would have still ended up with a very similar draft pick. So, most likely, we would have been in a position to make the proposed trade from Atlanta, and picked CP3. And in Howard's 2nd year, he still wasn't the dominant player you see today, and CP3 was going through his growing pains, and really wasn't much better than what we had...which would have been magnified with our coaching. So, again, it is reasonable to believe that we would have been in a similar position to take Roy instead of Ammo.

The thing is that if we had played our cards right, we could be an elite team right now (of course that's easy to say with 20/20 hindsight). It wasn't until Howard's 3rd season and CP3's 2nd that each exploded into the stars they are. And by that time, we would have already picked up Roy. So while we would have had to have been smart and savvy (neither of which describe Bickerstaff as a GM), it is very conceivable that our lineup could look like your fantasy lineup.

#21 Woodie

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 12:55 AM

Oh, and the argument that Paul wasn't rated as better than Felton prior to the draft is and that they were so close is only valid through baby blue tinted glasses. The reason they didn't make the trade is that they were more interested in selling some extra tickets by picking the two UNC guys. Same reason that Morrison was selected.


No offense, but that's just the conspiracy nonsense the ABC'ers have been spewing. While I agree they should have made the trade to move up and take CP3, I think it had more to do with poor talent evaluation than desire to stack the lineup with Carolina guys.

Since the team decided to keep both the 5th and 13th pick that year and considering the team's needs at the time, Felton and May were probably the best options available. It was just a coincidence they both went to Carolina. The team was desperate for a PG, and once CP3 and Williams were off the board, Felton was the consensus next best PG...by a wide margin.

As for May, the only other legitimate option was Danny Granger, but he had a knee issue that many around the league thought might be chronic and was taken off several team boards because of it. Of course the irony is that May is the one who has had knee problems, while Granger has been relatively healthy. Of course, some were crying for Gerald Greene as well, but most in-depth scouting of him showed that he lacked a lot of the skills necessary to become the dominant player he was touted to be. Basically, he was just an athlete, not a lottery pick.

So, based on who was available at each pick, the team took the best player available that also fit a need. Unfortunately (because along with bringing in UNC fans, they alienated the ABC'ers), they happened to both come from such a polarizing school as UNC. But the real mistake was in not trading those picks. And most analysts felt CP3 was a much better prospect than Felton. But for whatever reason, BB was more interested in quantity than quality. While it's nice to fill in some holes, if you have the chance to get a likely superstar, you simply have to make that move rather than the guys who are expected to just be solid (which is all Felton and May were expected to be).

#22 Britneck

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 09:56 AM

This is all kinda dumb cause we werent gonna trade up cause they were happy with either of the players and even if we did we probably would've still taken Meka. Bernie was all about Meka that year and we seem to choose college players who were popular with fans that year.

#23 solorca

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 12:06 PM

I can understand why the Bobcats stoop pat at 5 and 13


I can too...because they they were able to get Carolina players at those spots. You can argue the Carolina issue when it comes to the Bobcats, but that season they were CLEARLY trying to pull in the UNC fanbase. When that didn't work, they brought in Jordan.

That's what happens when you worry too much about trying to win over the locals. A good team always does better than pandering.

Terrible ownership and terrible management equals a terrible team.

#24 Woodie

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 01:38 PM

I can too...because they they were able to get Carolina players at those spots. You can argue the Carolina issue when it comes to the Bobcats, but that season they were CLEARLY trying to pull in the UNC fanbase. When that didn't work, they brought in Jordan.

That's what happens when you worry too much about trying to win over the locals. A good team always does better than pandering.

Terrible ownership and terrible management equals a terrible team.


What was so clear about trying to pull the Carolina fanbase? The team never stated that was their intent, in fact, they said just the opposite. So other than taking two former Tarheels who happened to be the BPA for positions of need, I don't know of one thing that made it obvious they were trying to pull in the UNC fanbase. Do you?

#25 Luc21

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 04:36 PM

What was so clear about trying to pull the Carolina fanbase? The team never stated that was their intent, in fact, they said just the opposite. So other than taking two former Tarheels who happened to be the BPA for positions of need, I don't know of one thing that made it obvious they were trying to pull in the UNC fanbase. Do you?


The ties with the Bobcats and the Heels run deep. Dont get me wrong, I am still a Bobcats fan(which is hard being a Duke fan as well) but lets not close our eyes and say there is no effort here to bring Chapel Hill to Charlotte.

Bobcats' Carolina ties

Sean May
Raymond Felton
Larry Brown
Dave Hanners
Phil Ford
Michael Jordan
Buzz Peterson


Now obviously, this includes front office and coaching staff, but my point is you can not argue that the Bobcats are not trying to "keep it in the family". This list does not include David Noel and I believe Shammond Williams, who were on summer league rosters at one point or another. It also doesnt include drafting Wright. Hell, if anyone could locate Joe Forte, he could at least get a summer league spot I bet.

#26 X-Clown

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 04:41 PM

The ties with the Bobcats and the Heels run deep. Dont get me wrong, I am still a Bobcats fan(which is hard being a Duke fan as well) but lets not close our eyes and say there is no effort here to bring Chapel Hill to Charlotte.

Bobcats' Carolina ties

Sean May
Raymond Felton
Larry Brown
Dave Hanners
Phil Ford
Michael Jordan
Buzz Peterson


Now obviously, this includes front office and coaching staff, but my point is you can not argue that the Bobcats are not trying to "keep it in the family". This list does not include David Noel and I believe Shammond Williams, who were on summer league rosters at one point or another. It also doesnt include drafting Wright. Hell, if anyone could locate Joe Forte, he could at least get a summer league spot I bet.


Don't forget that for a large part of last season that Jeff freaking McInnis was getting significant minutes at point guard.

#27 pantherfan49

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 05:27 PM

How many Dookies have the Bobs went after?

I seem to remember Chris Duhon being on the FA market this past offseason and management having absolutely no interest in him. Now NY has his 8.5 assists per game. All the while, the Bobs could have dumped Felton for David Lee this past offseason and dumped May for a first round pick.

They didn't pull the trigger on either trade that would have gotten rid of a tarheel and admittedly seemed to favor the Bobcats, but are more than willing to dump their best scorer for a bunch of scrubs, and maybe even GForce for whatever they can find.

Don't forget drafting Brandon Wright either. The team waited hours to announce the trade for JRich. I am not so certain that the deal was done when the Bobs took Wright.

#28 Boner Champ

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 05:29 PM

I can too...because they they were able to get Carolina players at those spots. You can argue the Carolina issue when it comes to the Bobcats, but that season they were CLEARLY trying to pull in the UNC fanbase. When that didn't work, they brought in Jordan.

That's what happens when you worry too much about trying to win over the locals. A good team always does better than pandering.

Terrible ownership and terrible management equals a terrible team.


I agree here. I dont think it was the players that made this team horrible. They were doomed from the start when a raciest owner moved into town and forced us to buy him an arena. I hope he looses every bit of the $350 million...

#29 King Taharqa

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 08:30 PM

I agree here. I dont think it was the players that made this team horrible. They were doomed from the start when a raciest owner moved into town and forced us to buy him an arena. I hope he looses every bit of the $350 million...


That "racist" owner was selected by the 30 other NBA owners and he didnt force Charlotte to do anything. There's only a small minority of people who will still argue that Time Warner Cable Arena is a mistake after all the money its brought to this city the past couple of years.

#30 Woodie

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 12:16 AM

The ties with the Bobcats and the Heels run deep. Dont get me wrong, I am still a Bobcats fan(which is hard being a Duke fan as well) but lets not close our eyes and say there is no effort here to bring Chapel Hill to Charlotte.

Bobcats' Carolina ties

Sean May
Raymond Felton
Larry Brown
Dave Hanners
Phil Ford
Michael Jordan
Buzz Peterson


Now obviously, this includes front office and coaching staff, but my point is you can not argue that the Bobcats are not trying to "keep it in the family". This list does not include David Noel and I believe Shammond Williams, who were on summer league rosters at one point or another. It also doesnt include drafting Wright. Hell, if anyone could locate Joe Forte, he could at least get a summer league spot I bet.

I was responding to Solorca's point that in the 2005 draft (when we took RF and SM) the Bobcats were "clearly" trying to pull the UNC fanbase. With the exception of the two picks I mentioned, none of the people you brought up were affiliated with the Bobcats at that time. Basically, I think it is a figment of the ABC'ers imagination, but am willing to listen if someone has anything concrete other than hate for Carolina.

With that said, you are absolutely right that the Bobcats have since turned into the pro version of Tarheel basketball. It's probably not a good thing for a team struggling for fan support to bring in so many people affiliated with a school as polarizing as UNC. However, I do believe it probably has more to do with familiarity and comfort than placating any one segment of the fanbase (hence the Vincent and Higgins hiring's). Nevertheless, it still alienates some fans of other schools that have heated rivalries with Carolina. It also means that Jordan is probably not bringing in the most qualified people or enough strong basketball minds that are not afraid to confront and disagree with him...too many yes men, IMO.

I just hope that as he gets more experience, he will not rely on so many familiar faces, and focus on bringing in the right people instead. I'm not sure that will happen, though, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Edited by Woodie, 13 December 2008 - 12:22 AM.



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