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Abortion: When Does Life Begin?


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#76 Claws

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:34 AM

listenin to religious people i think life starts right after i nut.

amirite?

or just before the creampie as they form n my nads?

helpmeoutk

#77 lightsout

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:29 AM

Let me ask this question. Do parasites have blood?



Edit: Of course after looking this up, it seems my definition of parasite comes more from a virus type understanding. The thing is, independent of the mother, the fetus develops it's own blood. So if life is determined by independence, blood would be the first thing.



Developing blood =/= able to survive and live outside of the womb. Fetal viability is the ability of a fetus to survive outside of the uterus without artificial support. It is not a shady area. It is very clear.


To address the whole "sticking a needle towards the fetus and watch the reaction" argument, sure, it is a living organism. So is a chicken egg. But it is not a chicken until it can live outside of the egg. If you're that emotionally attached to something that has no ability to survive independent of the womb, you need to get a grip on what is important. Letting that thing develop and be born, only to either be neglected/abused/etc. or to be put into an orphanage, many of which also neglect/abuse/etc.. Or, the alternative, you can allow the woman/couple to decide to not go through with the pregnancy (up to a point) and rid themselves of the financial and emotional burden that is pregnancy and child-rearing. I say "burden" not necessarily as a bad thing. However, for somebody who doesn't want a kid, it can certainly be deemed as a burden in a sense of the typical negative connotation of the term.

#78 g5jamz

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:25 AM

Excuse me while I eat some bald eagle omelet.

#79 googoodan

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 10:52 AM

Posted Image


WOW! F'ing cool, man!
now can you do one for "pretending to argue with someone when no one is arguing"?

#80 cptx

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 11:59 AM

so i'm supposed to cook fetuses before i eat them right?


as long as they are Kosher...

#81 cookinwithgas

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:58 PM

the only pork involved was on the night of conception

#82 Proudiddy

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 04:34 PM

If having blood = life, then allow me to take out your brain. You'll still have blood. Sure, none of your neuro-muscular systems will work, but you will be alive. That's all that matters, right?


Of course, all the above is sarcasm. If you don't have a brain, you die. The point of all this is viability of the fetus. If the fetus can survive outside of the womb without need for a machine, THEN it is alive. If it is dependent on the womb for survival, it is a fetus/parasite.


See... This is why people get in such heated debates over this. And usually, neither side is going to change their opinion, so it's all rhetoric.

I have no problem with you Lightsout, in fact, I enjoy most of your posts, and that's why I tend to avoid the Tinderbox for the most part because I don't want to bring this crap into my perception of people.

BUT, you couldn't be more wrong here, and this is fairly offensive (although I know you didn't intend it to be, and neither do I). You should take a visit to a NICU and tell me if you hold the same opinion once you leave.

My oldest daughter was born at 24 weeks gestation at 1 lb. 7 oz.. My wedding ring could fit all the way up to her shoulder. She had to be fed and breathed through tubes. Everyday was a struggle and brought new challenges. I was scared to go to sleep because everytime the phone rang I was scared of who would be on the other end of it.

All we could do is pray. Now I am far from being perfect, and I don't claim to be... I don't like to be preachy to people either because of that, but my faith (being a Christian) has always been strong and has never wavered... And all we could do is pray in that situation - we had no power and couldn't do anything ourselves, as parents, to help that part of us laying in that tiny incubator.

And through it all, this tiny body was fighting. She fought. And for what? TO LIVE. TO LIVE! Did she know that's what she was doing? I believe yes whether other people do or not.

Now she is 7 years old and thriving. She has no health problems whatsoever and we were and are extremely blessed and so thankful to have her. And she was considered barely on the edge of viability... LOL @ science sometimes.

And still, I can remember sitting in that NICU exhausted and seeing them roll another baby in, born just as early, and seeing the parents crying as they closed the curtains and unplugged the machines. Tell those parents that their kids "weren't alive."

Again, I don't even like discussing these things because emotions run so high... And in my case, you can see why. People have to be considerate of every side of each argument when it comes to this stuff.

#83 Porn Shop Clerk

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 05:37 PM

every time a christian male masturbates they commit genocide

#84 Matthias

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 06:43 PM

See... This is why people get in such heated debates over this. And usually, neither side is going to change their opinion, so it's all rhetoric.

I have no problem with you Lightsout, in fact, I enjoy most of your posts, and that's why I tend to avoid the Tinderbox for the most part because I don't want to bring this crap into my perception of people.

BUT, you couldn't be more wrong here, and this is fairly offensive (although I know you didn't intend it to be, and neither do I). You should take a visit to a NICU and tell me if you hold the same opinion once you leave.

My oldest daughter was born at 24 weeks gestation at 1 lb. 7 oz.. My wedding ring could fit all the way up to her shoulder. She had to be fed and breathed through tubes. Everyday was a struggle and brought new challenges. I was scared to go to sleep because everytime the phone rang I was scared of who would be on the other end of it.

All we could do is pray. Now I am far from being perfect, and I don't claim to be... I don't like to be preachy to people either because of that, but my faith (being a Christian) has always been strong and has never wavered... And all we could do is pray in that situation - we had no power and couldn't do anything ourselves, as parents, to help that part of us laying in that tiny incubator.

And through it all, this tiny body was fighting. She fought. And for what? TO LIVE. TO LIVE! Did she know that's what she was doing? I believe yes whether other people do or not.

Now she is 7 years old and thriving. She has no health problems whatsoever and we were and are extremely blessed and so thankful to have her. And she was considered barely on the edge of viability... LOL @ science sometimes.

And still, I can remember sitting in that NICU exhausted and seeing them roll another baby in, born just as early, and seeing the parents crying as they closed the curtains and unplugged the machines. Tell those parents that their kids "weren't alive."

Again, I don't even like discussing these things because emotions run so high... And in my case, you can see why. People have to be considerate of every side of each argument when it comes to this stuff.






I don't think XLightsOutX was referring to a situation such as yours. At 24 weeks, I'm sure XLightsOutX would agree your child was viable. I'm happy your child is now strong, and may she have many successful days ahead of her.:cool: The only thing I debated (which came from Scripture) is could life actually begin when there is blood present in the fetus.

#85 cookinwithgas

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 06:52 PM

Well at least consider the fact that the Scripture was written thousands of years before doctors thought that using leeches to suck the blood out of you was a dandy idea

#86 Porn Shop Clerk

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:18 PM

eh, people eat shellfish and touch menstruating women all the time so wtf

#87 googoodan

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:36 PM

I don't think XLightsOutX was referring to a situation such as yours. At 24 weeks, I'm sure XLightsOutX would agree your child was viable. I'm happy your child is now strong, and may she have many successful days ahead of her.:cool: The only thing I debated (which came from Scripture) is could life actually begin when there is blood present in the fetus.


meh... from scripture, life began when the breath of life was breathed into Adam's lungs

#88 Matthias

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 07:29 AM

Adam wasn't born but was created. Interestingly enough, the fetus doesn't begin to receive oxygen elements until it is hooked up to the mother through the umbilical cord. So I guess in essence, from a Scriptual standpoint, it reinforces the point that life doesn't begin until a certain amount of time has passed after pregnancy.


I guess I'm making this argument from the Bible to show believers it's not taking a life if a person uses birth control or things of that nature. The most evident situation I see where pregancy is not wanted, is the situation of rape. If taking emergency contraception is safe for that woman or teenage girl, it should be done right away.

#89 cookinwithgas

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:11 AM

Well Matthias I would like to sincerely thank you for at least pointing out that you can take anything in any philosophical book to mean what you personally want it to, and you are acknowledging that in your own way. You have some potential.

#90 PanthaSan

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:43 AM

Life begins at 40.....


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