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Panthers' Official Cap as of 3/11


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#76 panthers55

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 12:51 PM

Sorry but I think it is an educated assumption that no team was going to pay a LB coming off 2 ACL tears that type money.

I think based on Hurneys history there is enough to support that he does overpay. He doesn't do it just bc we had a bad year...it is consistent with this franchise. Sure, there are PROS and cons to everything....but pointing out the cons is going to happen.

I don't think I said Hurney was bad....he doesn't consistently overpay guys....pros and cons to it. Can't pretend there aren't negatives with there moves.


So now we have to down to just Davis. Ok then. Here is what Yas said about the deal.

http://espn.go.com/b...th-thomas-davis


Technically, Davis already was under contract for this season. Under an obscure rule that existed only in the 2010 uncapped year, Davis’ contract for last season rolled over to this season because he spent all of last year on the physically-unable-to-perform list.

The Panthers didn’t want Davis to feel like a victim of that rule, so they made it a point to extend his contract. It now runs through 2015, but there is protection built into this deal in case Davis can’t come back as something close to the player he was before the injuries.

The Panthers renegotiated Davis’ base salary this year down to $1 million, but they gave him a $7 million signing bonus right up front. That brings Davis’ cap figure down to $2.4 million for this year, after it originally was scheduled to be $3.8 million.


The real key will be how Davis performs this season. If he fares well, he’ll be well paid going forward. If he struggles, Davis probably won’t be with the Panthers next season. That’s because his deal includes an $8 million option bonus for 2012. If the Panthers pay that bonus, they’ll also be paying bigger salaries to Davis down the road.

His 2012 base salary is $2.25 million and it jumps to $4.25 million in 2013. The base figure jumps to $5.75 million in 2014 and $7.25 million in 2015.



So we were obligated to pay 3.8 million anyway unless we cut him last year which they negotiated it down to 1 million last year and paid him 7 million up front for a total of 8 million. So his cap hit last year was 2.4 million and if we release him with no redo he will cost the other 5.6 million. Now that 5.6 million assumes the worse case scenario which is we just release him. What if we agree to pay him the 2.25 million if he makes it to game 1 which will cost us the signing bonus cap hit of 1.4 million and agree to forego the option bonus or we release him. So we would actually pay him $3.65 million this year which might be worth a chance if he does recover and costs us less than it would if we release him. So last year he counts 2.35 million and this year it would be 3.65 million.
Next year if he were cut we would have around 4 million in dead cap space which is unavoidable and if by some miracle he can play, we finish out the rest of the contract. Or they tear it up totally by mutual consent and make another agreement without having to pay the option bonus or get stuck for the remainder of the signing bonus. I don't know how it all works at that point.

But assuming we work something out, I think it was a gamble we lost but not totally unreasonble.

#77 Brandon

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 12:51 PM

Everyone wants to look at Marty's first round picks and proclaim him a good GM. He sucks, as you point out. He overspent on his own players because they are KNOWN quantities. He has no eye for talent. Want proof? Look who he drafted when he was getting no input from the coach (Fox was a lame duck): Clausen (tried to trade up to get him), Armanti (traded the 33rd pick in the 2011 draft to get a smallish, small-school QB who had never caught a punt in his life to play WR, return punts, and run the wildcat, a fad gimmick, basically.


Most every analyst thought Clausen would be a good QB at the next level, and a lot of people thought he would be the answer. To say that was a bad pick is ludicrous, only because you are able to look back at that season and see how bad we did. The book is not closed on him yet, especially after one season in the middle of so much turmoil around him. Edwards was a bad pick, but you can't say he traded the 33rd pick in the draft, nobody went into that season expecting us to finish 2-14. Nobody.

The rest of that draft went pretty well, picking up Lafell, Hardy, Gettis, and a few decent backups to go along with them. You have chosen only to look at the negative from that draft, or are only representing the negative, in order to provide some sort of evidence towards your point, which is clearly fallacious.

He paid a ton to DW, a running back who had not finished a season in 2 years and who would play most of his contract on the wrong side of 30. RBs are devalued in the NFL right now, but we have 2 first rounders. DW had about 600 yards last year on about 115 carries. Are we getting what we paid for? And Thomas Davis got guaranteed $ to extend his contract after 2 ACL surgeries---He had a year left on his deal--Why give the man guaranteed money until you KNOW the knee is fine? How STUPID was that? And to make matters worse, we give Kalil and Beason contracts that make them the highest paid players at their respective positions when they are not the best players at their positions. Godfrey was overpaid. CJ was overpaid, but we HAD to pay him that becuse we draft reactively instead of proactively.


How do you expect people to believe you when your stats are VERY incorrect. DeAngelo had 836yds on 155 carries, despite getting off to a very slow start because the offensive line had such a hard time with the run blocking concepts at the start of the year.

TD was given the contract with a lot of "what ifs" built into it. When healthy he's one of the best at his position and it would be stupid of us to let him walk. Clearly he's willing to work out a deal to help the team, what more can you ask?

Kalil is widely regarded as one of, if not the best centers in the league. Beason is one of the best interior linebackers in the league. You don't let those people go for any reason, especially for the leadership they possess. If you think it was "dumb" to resign them to contracts that as of right now are pretty much in line with the rest of the league, I don't know what to tell you.

Godfrey was overpaid, but at the time was showing a lot more growth. It's still way too early to put a value on him.

CJ's contract is absolutely fine considering he's a premier 4-3 DE, do you know how much the going rate is for one right now? Just wait until you see the contract figures for Mario Williams and then you'll understand why CJ was paid the amount he was.

Those who say the Hurney is good will refer you to the first round and his high success rate. He drafts SAFELY in the first round. LBs, OL, RBs, CB--all positions that are easy to project to the NFL. We Have needed DT badly since Jenkins left. Who are the DTs we drafted? DT is difficult to project, as is DE. So we get Tank Tyler and Leonard Lewis, Pat Hayden and Corvey Irvin.


Did you know that Bill Belichick has only drafted one good linebacker in all of his years with the Patriots? Did you know the Packers can't draft an offensive lineman for poo? Did you know that the Giants have spent tons of picks at the safety position and still haven't found a good one? Sometimes it's just hard for teams to find the right player, be it just bad luck with position in the draft or scouts who have difficulty evaluating the position. I'm not saying Hurney doesn't take some blame for that but before 2010 people said he couldn't draft a WR, before 2011 he couldn't draft a QB.

Bottom line: Hurney's spending has been as bad as his drafting in the second round. I hear him say, "We kept our core." as if we should be impressed by that. When you suck, it takes more $ to keep players here--I see that. However, Do not brag about the DW contract when he gets an average of 7 carries per game or the Johnson deal when he cannot break double digit sacks. Please explain how Godfrey deserves to be rich or how Beason deserves more than Willis.

We should be about $30 million under the cap.

Cut Wharton
Cut Davis
Cut Clausen

That is what should happen. Savings? About $13 million.

Sign an OLB and maybe an OG in free agency.


If we cut Wharton, Davis and Clausen we will save very little money. I know you want to play GM when there aren't millions of your boss's dollars on the line, but you don't even understand the way the system works and yet you're asserting that you can do better than Hurney.

Aside from everything else, I honestly want to know, much better do you think this team would be without DWill, CJ and Kalil?

#78 panthers55

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 12:56 PM

I am beating the same dead horse no more than you....you just hit it from the other side. There are just as many fans (and there have been quoted front offices) who think the Williams deal was silly as those that think it was smart.

We simply disagree.


I promise I won't bring it up first. Will you do the same? I am only responding to those like you that keep bringing it up over and over.

Edited by panthers55, 12 March 2012 - 12:59 PM.


#79 CRA

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 01:02 PM

I promise I won't bring it up again. Will you do the same? I am only responding to those like you that keep bringing it up over and over.


Deal. With one exception. After this season, when Stewart is finally willing to talk to Carolina about whether he wants a new deal with them......then it can be referenced.

#80 Reapuh

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:20 PM

Adam Schefter ‏ @AdamSchefter
Cowboys lose $10 million in cap space, Redskins lose $36 million in space. Can split it over 2012 and 2013 any way they want. More at ESPN.

All that money goes to 28 other teams -- $1.6 million each -- except for Saints and Raiders, who don't get any but don't lose any.


Sweet

#81 BeasonBeastingBacks

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:22 PM

that makes things a lot easier

#82 Keith Moons Liver

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 04:06 PM

How the fug can a team completely purged during the 2010 NFL season going 2-14, finish 6-10 during the 2011 season be in a worse Cap situation than the Super Bowl Champion Giants? The Giants opponents in the Super Bowl with an extremely well paid QB are 16 million plus under the cap.
The Panthers are also the same team to be the first to enjoy a post Rookie Cap #1 pick.


terrible cap management = 2-14
good cap management = super bowl
we lucked into getting cam but I have zero faith in our front office capitalizing on our good fortune

#83 Brandon

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 06:44 PM

terrible cap management = 2-14
good cap management = super bowl
we lucked into getting cam but I have zero faith in our front office capitalizing on our good fortune


I'd pay to see your reaction when we actually have a bad GM and get to see what he does to a team. Talk to a Jags or Browns fan and they would kill for a guy like Hurney.