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Jonathan Stewart The Most Elusive Rb In The Nfl?


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#76 panthers55

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:25 AM

LOL, seriously? You do realize McFadden didn't play half a season and Peterson 3/4th of one?

Williams played a healthy 16 games in 2011 - 35% of teams rushing yards
McFadden played in 7 games in 2011 - 29% of teams rushing yards
Peterson played in 12 games in 2011 - 42% of the teams rushing yards

McFadden almost generated the same amout of production for his team in half the games on the ground.

McFadden is on his rookie deal....they will not give him a new deal like Williams got and expect 2011 Williams type production. You pay guys Williams type money to BE the workhorse on a team. Come on man. If you pay a RB like Williams they are expected to account for most of your production on the ground.....both those RBs you named were expected to do such and injury is the only reason why they didn't.


That wasn't the point, the issue was whether there were other backs who cost more who didn't produce aany more than Williams did.
You could make the point though that both McFadden and Peterson are coming off injuries which usually take time to heal. Would you be paying Peterson 14 million after cooming off ACL surgery.
As for McFadden he is still signed through 2012 and 2013. So he will making big bucks for an uncertain future.

You pay guys like Williams to be productive. He is at the top of the league with 5.4 yards a carry and 8.2 yards a reception. Are there guys cheaper who are more productive, yes. Could we have gone a different direction, yes.

But again why are we beating the same dead horse a year after the deal??

The point was that we could Stewart if we want to. I showed you how we could. You think it iss a bad idea, I think it no worse an iidea next year tehn it was last year or will be this year. Lets stick to Stewart and stop the endless Williams debate. You obviously aren't going to change your mind so what is the point??

#77 CRA

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:26 AM

Poor example they run a west coast offense. Would a team like the Jets bring in Stewart or even Denver who run a WCO but still have Fox as their coach. I think they would want him and might pay him a bunch.


No they are a good example...they represent a team with no question marks in terms of getting production on the ground. They have a top tier RB on the roster already. That is the point. They wouldn't waste investing on something that isn't a need.

Of course Denver would sign him....they don't have a top tier runner on there team.

Carolina has a top tier runner they just paid in Williams. Plus Cam. Plus a good multipurpose RB. If you are anyone outside of a Carolian fan.....you answer the question should they pay Stewart the same way we would answer if Philly should go after him.

#78 panthers55

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:27 AM

Newton has been a key cog to his teams ground attacks and a highly effiecient/productive runner at every level and every year he has stepped onto a football field......assuming that will change would be making an assumption with little to back it. He is the ultimate mismatch.

And we might use him as a primary passer this year, the point is that you want him to run 250 times while I am not wedded to the idea. I would like him to scramble to avoid blindsided sacks but am not committed to the option attack with him running 20 times a game.

#79 CRA

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:30 AM

That wasn't the point, the issue was whether there were other backs who cost more who didn't produce aany more than Williams did.
You could make the point though that both McFadden and Peterson are coming off injuries which usually take time to heal. Would you be paying Peterson 14 million after cooming off ACL surgery.
As for McFadden he is still signed through 2012 and 2013. So he will making big bucks for an uncertain future.

You pay guys like Williams to be productive. He is at the top of the league with 5.4 yards a carry and 8.2 yards a reception. Are there guys cheaper who are more productive, yes. Could we have gone a different direction, yes.

But again why are we beating the same dead horse a year after the deal??

The point was that we could Stewart if we want to. I showed you how we could. You think it iss a bad idea, I think it no worse an iidea next year tehn it was last year or will be this year. Lets stick to Stewart and stop the endless Williams debate. You obviously aren't going to change your mind so what is the point??

I am the one who made the point.

My point was you don't pay someone like Williams to be responsible for that small of a role in terms of production for your team.

You are spinning it and saying since player X got hurt.....the result was similar production. Therefore it is the same. It isn't. Those guys are paid and expected to provide the bulk of the production........and Williams isn't.

I have already said I agree we could have Stewart if we wanted him. That is no different than saying we could have Richardson in the draft if we wanted him.

and sorry 55....but you simply can't talk about Stewart and his future with this team......and exclude DeAngleo from the talk. He is a factor in it for several reasons.

#80 panthers55

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:35 AM

No they are a good example...they represent a team with no question marks in terms of getting production on the ground. They have a top tier RB on the roster already. That is the point. They wouldn't waste investing on something that isn't a need.

Of course Denver would sign him....they don't have a top tier runner on there team.

Carolina has a top tier runner they just paid in Williams. Plus Cam. Plus a good multipurpose RB. If you are anyone outside of a Carolian fan.....you answer the question should they pay Stewart the same way we would answer if Philly should go after him.


Why do you want to get rid of Stewart so much after whining for months that we are going to lose him because of the Williams contract? If money isn't the issue then what? And who are we going to sign with all this money we supposedly save given we don't buy expensive free agents.

#81 CRA

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:36 AM

And we might use him as a primary passer this year, the point is that you want him to run 250 times while I am not wedded to the idea. I would like him to scramble to avoid blindsided sacks but am not committed to the option attack with him running 20 times a game.

just b/c you exagerrate my statement....doesn't mean that it becomes my opinion.

Cam Newton is a runner. Always has been. Only reason we were competitive is b/c of what he did with his arm and legs.

Cam will be a key piece in our ground production. Nothing supports him being removed from that aspect at this stage in his career. He will likely be the most efficent runner as well.....b/c he gets to take advantage of mismatches a RB simply doesn't get.

#82 carolina-chuck

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:36 AM

Brilliant!!!

Ignore that trading Williams will cost us 13.2 million in dead cap space!!!


Educate me for a bit. But I thought that cutting someone wouldnt cost us dead cap space, not trading someone. Yay, Nay?

#83 Toundra

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:38 AM

I would rather keep Stewart and let DW go.
Its a pain in the rear because i like DW..

#84 panthers55

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:41 AM

I am the one who made the point.

My point was you don't pay someone like Williams to be responsible for that small of a role in terms of production for your team.

You are spinning it and saying since player X got hurt.....the result was similar production. Therefore it is the same. It isn't. Those guys are paid and expected to provide the bulk of the production........and Williams isn't.

I have already said I agree we could have Stewart if we wanted him. That is no different than saying we could have Richardson in the draft if we wanted him.

and sorry 55....but you simply can't talk about Stewart and his future with this team......and exclude DeAngleo from the talk. He is a factor in it for several reasons.


But you morph every discussion for the past year into a whine about Williams. Just move on. We can keep Stewart if we want and what have we heard anyone say about getting rid of him?? Until it is a done deal why the contant diatribe now to trade Stewart for a 2nd or 3rd rounder just to get rid of him. Why not keep him this year and see what happens. Even if we lose him we get a low third rounder which is what many of you think we can get for him anyway and we get to use this year. I for oone would rather keep him for the year and pay the 2 million it costs over the 1.5 million in dead cap space if we trade him if all we are going to get in a third rounder anyway. Now if we are talking first rounder or very high second rounder then that might be different. Otherwise it is cheap insurance to keep him around for 2 million.

#85 CRA

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:41 AM

Why do you want to get rid of Stewart so much after whining for months that we are going to lose him because of the Williams contract? If money isn't the issue then what? And who are we going to sign with all this money we supposedly save given we don't buy expensive free agents.


again, it isn't about having my favorite RB on the team. I wanted them to choose Stewart over Williams. They made there choice. Despite bitching about it I have to accept it moving forward.

You don't have to take the Stewart money and invest into one singular player. Our team lacks depth and talent all over. We need to be investing into our defense. We need to be investing in taking advantage of the rules in place and stopping other teams looking to so as well.

We didn't get our moneys worth for Williams last year.....not his fault. Organziations fault. Pay Stewart.....you won't be getting your moneys worth from either. Won't be their fault.

We drafted Cam. We need to build it around Cam. We need to fix our D. RB position needs to be put on the back burner. Not as important in today's league.

#86 panthers55

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:44 AM

Educate me for a bit. But I thought that cutting someone would cost us dead cap space, not trading someone. Yay, Nay?

It is simple. The salary goes to the new team but the signing bonus which was spread out over the life of the contract accelerates to this year. He is signed through 2015 at 3.2 million in signing bonus each year. That is 4 times 3.2 million or 13.2 million in dead cap space.

#87 panthers55

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:46 AM

just b/c you exagerrate my statement....doesn't mean that it becomes my opinion.

Cam Newton is a runner. Always has been. Only reason we were competitive is b/c of what he did with his arm and legs.

Cam will be a key piece in our ground production. Nothing supports him being removed from that aspect at this stage in his career. He will likely be the most efficent runner as well.....b/c he gets to take advantage of mismatches a RB simply doesn't get.

Newton is a passer who can run as well. He ran for 750 yards and threw for 4000. Where do you get he is a runner?? This is the same misconception he dealt with in college as well. Vick was always called a runner because he ran for 750 yard but only threw for 2000-2500 yards. That has changed for him in the last few years as well.
Newton is an integral part of the offense period. But we could be effective if he didn't run 125 times a year.

#88 panthers55

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:52 AM

again, it isn't about having my favorite RB on the team. I wanted them to choose Stewart over Williams. They made there choice. Despite bitching about it I have to accept it moving forward.

You don't have to take the Stewart money and invest into one singular player. Our team lacks depth and talent all over. We need to be investing into our defense. We need to be investing in taking advantage of the rules in place and stopping other teams looking to so as well.

We didn't get our moneys worth for Williams last year.....not his fault. Organziations fault. Pay Stewart.....you won't be getting your moneys worth from either. Won't be their fault.

We drafted Cam. We need to build it around Cam. We need to fix our D. RB position needs to be put on the back burner. Not as important in today's league.


I can appreciate your take on Stewart but a few comments. We have 20 of our 22 starters locked up. We don't need starters we need guys to come back from injury. As for depth, a lot of guys played many minutes who will serve as depth this year. I know people think we need whole sale changes but I disagree. We have most of the pieces to compete for the playoffs this year. We need a full off season to implement the defense and we need a few guys to step up or be replaced. I think that I am most worried about linebacker and the secondary at this point. Hopefully out first and second rounder can come in and be a major contributor. After that, who knows....

#89 CRA

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:55 AM

If resigning Stewart were smart....then I think we should be able to name at least one other team that has shown comparable investment into there overall backfield.

There isn't one though...

So I guess a franchise that has never won in back to back seasons is onto something I guess....

#90 Frizzy350

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:58 AM

i wouldnt be surprised if williams offers to renegotiate in order to free up some cap to keep Stewart. The two are great friends, have broken records together, played off each other incredibly well, filled in for each other during injuries effectively and are vastly improving the lifespan of their careers. Also Williams is a swell, modest and humble man.

In today's NFL, it's getting rarer and rarer to see every-down backs continue production into their late 20's. 30 used to be the magic age, when RBs would have issues keeping their production up. That magic age continues to drop. Defensive players are getting bigger, stronger and faster at an extremely fast rate. There are a handful of 280 lb defensive ends that run as fast as receivers, that was absolutely unheard of when the every-down back dominated football.

Sure Stewart could go out and land a contract similar to Deangelo, but if something goes wrong (especially with his injury history) or the wear is just too much for him, thats simply all he's going to get. Both him and Deangelo could play very effectively into their mid 30's, breaking records, winning superbowls with Cam (gotta remember, when winning playoff games the NFL doles out very large bonuses to the players), and consistently landing reasonable multi-million dollar deals here - no vet minimum poo.


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