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Creationism in Private Schools


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#46 Mr. Scot

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:25 PM

Same old stuff, honestly.

We don't dare allow that there is anything other than the orthodoxy. We can't even acknowledge that there are people who disagree or who believe in things like religion because to even whisper such things means our children might somehow become brainwashed into believing them. We must deny even the very existence of opposition. This is the only way to ensure our children get a proper education.

Oh, and we must also teach tolerance for other people's ideas.

#47 Mr. Scot

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:30 PM

Non religious theories of ID? Show me... never heard of this.

No, I would not suggest that anything be denied, and that's not what I said... but where do you draw that line? What evidence or proof is there of any other theories? Is there evidence of creation? Is there evidence of alien seeding? Is there evidence that pigs can fly? If so, show it and discuss it... if it's just someone's belief, leave it in the philosophy and religion class.


They're out there. You can look it up. I'm too lazy at the moment.

Would you deny that intelligent design has a pretty broad base of supporters?

Bottom line for me: All you have to do is teach that the core idea exists. You don't have to explore specific theories. Granted you could go into those that have broad support (same as you would with any other theory) but just the acknowledgement of the general idea would be enough for me.

Granted, others may go further, but that'd be all I'd want. And frankly, I don't see why something as simple as that is such a big deal to people.

#48 cookinwithgas

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:38 PM

Can I invent a core idea and sue schools to get it presented? I've got a great "theory" involving spontaneous generation of flea larva that the House of Griffindor is involved with; the kids are going to be absolutely riveted by it. We won't have to explore scientific theories, and there are similar things out there on the internet that I'm too lazy to look up right now even though I'd just have to Google it

#49 Mr. Scot

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:46 PM

Let's frame it another way.

Should public science classes teach that there is no God, Allah or any other higher power?

If you say yes, then you're essentially asking the schools to endorse a belief system (that being atheism).

If you say no, then why is there a problem with acknowledging that some people believe in intelligent design theory?

#50 BBQ&Beer

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:00 PM

Mr. Scott, in your opinion, what is the strongest scientific evidence for ID?

#51 BBQ&Beer

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:06 PM

Let's frame it another way.

Should public science classes teach that there is no God, Allah or any other higher power?

If you say yes, then you're essentially asking the schools to endorse a belief system (that being atheism).

If you say no, then why is there a problem with acknowledging that some people believe in intelligent design theory?


No.

The problem is, it's not science.

#52 Mr. Scot

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:08 PM

Mr. Scott, in your opinion, what is the strongest scientific evidence for ID?


Had a class years ago that went over a lot of stuff, different interpretations of fossil evidence, geological stuff, etc. Remember about as much of it as I do my 7th grade biology.

If you want to look, there's plenty of stuff you can find online. Same as with Biscuit. I'm too lazy to look it up for just a message board debate.

My issue is more the notion that we can't even acknowledge that such theories exist. There are plenty of people, including scientists, who believe in one theory or another of intelligent design. But we can't allow that discussion to happen because somehow that harms the children's minds.

No.

The problem is, it's not science.


So again, it's only "science" if it agrees with your viewpoint and interpretation of the data. Have I got that right?

How exactly is that different from teaching orthodoxy?

#53 cookinwithgas

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:18 PM

I remember in math class when we didn't mention God and everyone thought we were being taught athiesm, good times

#54 Cat

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:21 PM

Let's frame it another way.

Should public science classes teach that there is no God, Allah or any other higher power?

If you say yes, then you're essentially asking the schools to endorse a belief system (that being atheism).

If you say no, then why is there a problem with acknowledging that some people believe in intelligent design theory?



No. Science classes shouldn't be teaching anything about God because it's NOT SCIENCE.

#55 Cat

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:21 PM

Had a class years ago that went over a lot of stuff, different interpretations of fossil evidence, geological stuff, etc. Remember about as much of it as I do my 7th grade biology.

If you want to look, there's plenty of stuff you can find online. Same as with Biscuit. I'm too lazy to look it up for just a message board debate.

My issue is more the notion that we can't even acknowledge that such theories exist. There are plenty of people, including scientists, who believe in one theory or another of intelligent design. But we can't allow that discussion to happen because somehow that harms the children's minds.



So again, it's only "science" if it agrees with your viewpoint and interpretation of the data. Have I got that right?



No you don't have it right. It's got nothing to do with a viewpoint and interpretation of data. It has to do with what falls into the category/limits of science. You still can't grasp that concept can you.

#56 Mr. Scot

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:22 PM

No you don't have it right. It's got nothing to do with a view point on data. It has to do with what falls into the category/limits of science. You still can't grasp that concept can you.


Because it's simply not possible for anyone to interpret the data any different than you do and be valid, right? :rolleyes:


No. Science classes shouldn't be teaching about God because it's not science.


So if a student asks a science teacher "is there a God" what should he say?

#57 cookinwithgas

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:23 PM

I'm too lazy


This is the best way to explain Creationism I've seen here.

#58 cookinwithgas

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:25 PM

Because it's simply not possible for anyone to interpret the data any different than you do and be valid, right? :rolleyes: So if a student asks a science teacher "is there a God" what should he say?


"Don't ask me, I AM A SCIENCE TEACHER NOT A PHILOSOPHY TEACHER?" perhaps?

#59 Mr. Scot

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:26 PM

This is the best way to explain Creationism I've seen here.


Not really, but it's a pretty good explanation of how I feel at the moment. "I'm bored" is another one.

these message board debates accomplish a whole lot of nothing other than wasted time.


"Don't ask me, I AM A SCIENCE TEACHER NOT A PHILOSOPHY TEACHER?" perhaps?


Or how about "some people believe that there is while others do not"?

Is there anything inaccurate about that sentence?

#60 rodeo

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:26 PM

Some people believe the Holocaust didn't happen. Should they have to say that in a History Class when teaching about the Holocaust?

I love how you go straight to Hitler to kill everyone's stupid ideas and it always works.


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