Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

jherald

Our Defensive Schemes

30 posts in this topic

SMH

Carolina doesn't have the personel to run a base 3-4 D right now. No one should trying to claim they do....it isn't that simple. That is Madden logic.

They can play some selective 3-4 looks...not much more.

I understand why you shake your head....bc you have no words to explain how guys like Hardy are 3-4 DEs or Ron Edwards can be the NT after he was run out of KC for not being able to handle it. We have a roster full of 4-3 guys. A few could handle it....overall they would be out of place up front in a 3-4.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While this does not directly answer your question heres a thread I made about the different looks we had last year.

I noticed a lot more variations of defensive packages under Rivera last year than we ever saw out of John Fox. Everyone knows we employed the 3-4 at times but we also had a few other looks that intrigued me as well.

The "Buffalo Nickel" Much like your standard "nickel" defenses this package uses 5 defensives backs but instead of the typical 3rd corner substituting in for a linebacker we used a third safety, mainly Jordan Pugh. The Giants apparently used this formation more than anyone else. The benefits of this package in theory are you have a better run defender in who can help stuff the line or drop back in coverage if need be.

2 offseason additions should make this package better next year, Reggie Smith or Nakumara could help out here. Anything we can do to get pugh on the field less will certainly help.

The "Nascar package" This was still a base 4-3 set but we would shift Hardy or another defensive end in to play tackle to increase the pass rush by adding more speed. He is not the only one we did that with but it seems he played that role more than anyone else and seemed to be pretty good at it. The Giants have the perfect personnel for this package, they are also the ones who gave it that name. They like to slide Tuck and Umenyiora inside while having Pierre-Pual and Kiawanuka man the the defensive end spots. It did not necessarily add to our sack count but I do believe this package was effective in obvious 3rd down passing situations.

Should be interesting to who we incorporate into this package next year. The 5 defensive ends most likely to make the roster at this point are Johnson,Hardy,Applewhite,Alexander and Keiser.

The "Meatlovers package" Okay I made that name up as I have not heard one coined for it yet. But I did notice in an effort to beef up our run D against Atlanta we we used two typical "nose tackles" side by side (in this instance it was Fua and Fields). We probably used it against other teams as well but in going back and watching the games in chronological order this was the first time I noticed a heavy dose of it but we didn't add or incorporate Shirley or Kearse in until later in the season.

Edwards will def. upgrade this look once he returns.

I also think we will def. see more hybrid looks the year where we incorporate the 3-4 more. When we decided it to use it last year we tried just about anyone everywhere as we kind of tested the waters on 3-4 looks last year. Now that we have a better idea of who can do what effectively it should provide better results. Edwards(3-4 NT) and Applewhite(3-4 OLB) are the only front 7 players on the roster who have experience in these roles full time. My only request is that we never have to endure Norwood out there again, much like I never want to see Pugh again unless they both miraculously improve this offseason.

Who would you like to see used in the different packages and 3-4 looks next season?(yes I know its extremely premature debate at this point)

For me in the 3-4

NT-Edwards

End-Johnson, Hardy

ILB-Beason,Kuechly

OLB-Applewhite,Alexander

Buffalo Nickel back

any combo that does not include Pugh but i'm thinking it our top 3 safeties will be.

Godfrey,Martin and Smith

Nascar Package

END-Applewhite/Alexander

DT-Hardy and Johnson

Meatlover -pick 2 big run stuffing DT'S

Edwards and Shirley are my picks right now

*yes I know Shirley may not be on the roster next year but I am basing this off last years production.

Here are couple decent articles that go into more detail about each package and how the Giants used them.

Buffalo Nickel: http://www.nytimes.c...l/19giants.html

Nascar Package: http://www.denverpos...cos/ci_19896176

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We could improve our defensive scheme by firing McDermott...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all our 4-3 is an aggressive scheme which does much of what a 3-4 does meaning there is not much reason to switch as a base defense. The advantage to shifting things around and moving from a 3-4 to 4-3 during a game or between games is to confuse the game preparation and the blocking assignments. But whether we use a 4-3 or 3-4 the key for us are good run fits and pressure on the edges mixed with good blitzing schemes.

I don't think you can make too much of what we did last year given we were pretty vanilla much of the year and were putting together a patchwork scheme that we had to recreate every week based on who was available and who we were facing. For example we won't need an extra safety in our nickel if we have good linebacker and line play. We can use the extra corner or even go to 4 corners and one safety up high against 4 WR sets. Of course that assumes we have 4 corners who will be able to play at a high level which may not be the case.

Anyway, I expect that we will be very different on defense compared to last. Partly in the schemes or looks but also how effective we will be with much better talent on the field at several key positions.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We could improve our defensive scheme by firing McDermott...

Wait and see what happens this year. He will suddenly go from a goat to an up and comer based on the improvement this season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wait and see what happens this year. He will suddenly go from a goat to an up and comer based on the improvement this season.

I do agree. How he does with one more year, hopefully with a relatively healthy defense, is a better indicator to judge him by. If we do poorly once again, time to let him go IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rivera has shown that he has no problem getting rid of players he doesn't want no matter what round they were taken (look out AE). If our defense drags this team down again we're going to find out how willing he is to hold on to coaches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Carolina doesn't have the personel to run a base 3-4 D right now. No one should trying to claim they do....it isn't that simple. That is Madden logic.

They can play some selective 3-4 looks...not much more.

I understand why you shake your head....bc you have no words to explain how guys like Hardy are 3-4 DEs or Ron Edwards can be the NT after he was run out of KC for not being able to handle it. We have a roster full of 4-3 guys. A few could handle it....overall they would be out of place up front in a 3-4.

Im shaking my head because you are going to fight your point no matter how wrong you are proven.

Ron Edwards is a NT and played NT for KC... He is in no way a UT and that should not even be a discussion.

Hardy was more of a jack LB but has beefed up so he is def could be a 3-4 DE. Would some of his talent be wasted? Sure but he could do it.

No one would be out of place because they would fit the base just fine. So would Johnson,Fua, Applewhite,and Alexander.

Oh and LOL at your Madden logic thing because its nothing ground breaking. Teams make the switch from 4-3 to 3-4 all the time in the NFL. Not saying Carolina is because it would be a wast of Hardy and Johnson but if they wanted to they could.

Ok well Im done trying to explain this to you. I understand you will never give up on your ideas no matter how wrong they are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

McD leaned under the great Jim

Johnson.....and that was about applying pressure. Rivera more than once bluntly said injuries prevented them from attempting to apply it.....so playing safe and soft was completely against what McD knows.

I think McD can be could was a scapegoat in Philly in addition to following a legend....and had no bodies last year. Still a talent driven league. He needs players on the field

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

McD leaned under the great Jim

Johnson.....and that was about applying pressure. Rivera more than once bluntly said injuries prevented them from attempting to apply it.....so playing safe and soft was completely against what McD knows.

I think McD can be could was a scapegoat in Philly in addition to following a legend....and had no bodies last year. Still a talent driven league. He needs players on the field

We agree about McDermott. One of the reasons I wanted Kuechly was because he has really not had the kind of linebackers he needs for his scheme either here or his two years in Philly. He has been snake bitten when it comes to having healthy linebackers who could play his scheme. I think this year we will see why Rivera hired him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites